04/24/24
March 10, 2005
Title 9 Versus Titus 2: The Bible tells us that women should not play competitive sports, according to Scott Jonas of Jesus-is-Savior.Com: "The effort expended on sports will hinder the development of wifely duties around the home. ... The masculine uniforms and sweaty bodies aren't very attractive, either."
Well finally someone has the balls to say it. And the thing about hindering development of wifey duties? This guy is obviously a doctor, too. Man, we are lucky to have people like this finally having access to computers. "Your theories intrigue me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter."
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:18 AM on March 10, 2005
Please tell me this is a joke. There's some feminist out there writing this and giggling her ass off, right? Did you see the site linked at the bottom, Book-Reading Bitches?
posted by dusted at 11:26 AM on March 10, 2005
It's no joke. Well, it is a joke - but they don't get it. These people would be much happier if it was the 15th century. Progress is for the filthy unbelievers!
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:28 AM on March 10, 2005
"The masculine uniforms and sweaty bodies aren't very attractive, either." Sonds like someone's trying to convince themselves of something.
posted by chicobangs at 11:58 AM on March 10, 2005
I don't know about Jesus, but I'll choose sweaty women and pagan idolatry every time... Some say Jesus wouldn't foul anyone, but it probably helps that he could do full court somersault dunks like on NBA Jams if he played hoops.
posted by chris2sy at 12:20 PM on March 10, 2005
Homer: Lisa, if the Bible has taught us nothing else -- and it hasn't -- it's that girls should stick to girls' sports, such as hot-oil wrestling, foxy boxing, and such-and-such. - "Lisa on Ice"
posted by grum@work at 12:25 PM on March 10, 2005
Some say Jesus wouldn't foul anyone ... 
Jesus would draw a charge if the kid knew when to plant his feet.
posted by rcade at 12:41 PM on March 10, 2005
by the looks of it he might also taunt those of lesser skill and stature. Jesus knows how to bring it. I bet he is a great showboater.
posted by gspm at 02:03 PM on March 10, 2005
You think he popped his tunic after healing the leper? Hell yeah he did.
posted by mbd1 at 03:10 PM on March 10, 2005
Man, that was a howler. Thanks, rcade. I do love the way that fundies can be such excellent historical revisionists. Doesn't it ever occur to any of them that women in "biblical" times (which spanned an awful lotta centuries) had to do an awful lot of work without the benefit of modern labor-saving devices, and as such were probably sweaty most of the time and pretty impressively muscular? And those who weren't, probably weren't considered prime catches, since they'd be too spindly to do all the herding/milking/toting/building/planting/harvesting and so on that was "women's work" back in those Biblical, feminine times. Hell, it's only very recently that women outside the upper classes weren't all pretty strong, as a result of having to do hard physical labor. Muscular women aren't anything new; the notion that women shouldn't sweat is.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 05:47 PM on March 10, 2005
That Ladies Against Feminism site is a fucking treasure trove! With our busy households, computer time is limited, but we'll post new articles to LAF as often as we can. :-) Pipe down and get back in the kitchen, woman! Them pot pies ain't gonna bake themselves! And anyone who complains about masculine uniforms has never watched women's tennis.
posted by Samsonov14 at 05:57 PM on March 10, 2005
Okay, not sports-related, but this is from an article found on the Ladies Against Feminism site: Have you heard of "cutting"? If you're a parent, you'd better read up. "Cutting" refers to self-mutilation -- using knives, razor blades or even safety pins to deliberately harm one's own body -- and it's spreading to a school near you... There is even a new genre of music -- "emo" -- associated with promoting the cutting culture. Damn you Sunny Day Real Estate!
posted by Samsonov14 at 06:04 PM on March 10, 2005
Some say Jesus wouldn't foul anyone, but it probably helps that he could do full court somersault dunks like on NBA Jams if he played hoops. Muthafucka come in Jesus's paint, muthafucka gonna go home bitchslapped!
posted by wfrazerjr at 06:58 PM on March 10, 2005
Muthafucka come in Jesus's paint, muthafucka gonna go home bitchslapped! There is no emoticon for what I'm feeling. That HAS to go on a t-shirt.
posted by Drood at 09:30 PM on March 10, 2005
That HAS to go on a t-shirt. With a picture of rcade's little statuette.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:49 PM on March 10, 2005
Muscular women aren't anything new; the notion that women shouldn't sweat is. I hadn't thought of it that way, but that's a great point. The average 19th century Willa Cather heroine could out arm-wrestle any guy posting here. And would definitely be a force in the paint.
posted by rcade at 06:10 AM on March 11, 2005
Interesting article. As a Christain, I can relate to some of what the man is saying. However, he does go a bit overboard. I am a bit offended by some of the responses posted here, but hey, that is your right to do so. I try not to "judge" what other people say and or do.. That said, I do believe that athletic competion has lead the family unit way from Christain values. The trouble with the Bible these days, is that peaople tend to only use the part or parts that supports thier way of thinking. I am just curious as to why this link was posted in the first place. If it was posted for its humor value, than it was not appropriate! That is my opinion!
posted by daddisamm at 09:18 AM on March 11, 2005
would those be christian values in theory or in practice? says the former altar boy.
posted by garfield at 09:40 AM on March 11, 2005
would those be christian values in theory or in practice? Actually both,
posted by daddisamm at 09:59 AM on March 11, 2005
If it was posted for its humor value, than it was not appropriate! Because Jesus and 12 other guys walked around and never told any jokes and were serious all the time? I don't think Christian values and athletic competition are adversarial forces pulling on the family or anything like that...if athletic competition can pull you away from your values than those probably weren't real strong values.
posted by chris2sy at 10:01 AM on March 11, 2005
daddisamm, the author of the piece summarizes everything he is trying to say in the closing line that I quoted in my intial post on this article. I was raised a Christain, and still identify myself as one despite the fact I haven't been to church in years. And never, in all the years of CCD, bible-reading, and sermon listening, have I heard something that would lead me to give that thought any credence whatsoever. The problem with this guy, just like the problem you point out with people who take only what they want from the Bible, is that he's taking only what he wants from sports. He focuses on the female body, the uniforms, and the time it takes from daughters and mothers doing other more-Christian things (I won't even get into this in great detail because it makes me a little sick or angry or something). Anyway, in doing this he ignores the fact that for both males and females, sports and athletic endeavors can provide a wonderful avenue to learn about ourselves and those around us. They can foster partnership, team-buidling, trust, confidence, a host of other qualities that would be supported in a Christian worldview. He says that, "I propose that sports greatly hinders the development of godly, Biblical, feminine character." But the fact remains that you could easily replace "greatly hinders" with "greatly helps" and, even within his belief structure, the statement could be supported if you looked at other aspects of sports. Taken from my persepctive, one that find his assessment of the women's role as ridiculous, that comment becomes laughable.
posted by 86 at 10:04 AM on March 11, 2005
it was posted for its humor value, than it was not appropriate! Because Jesus and 12 other guys walked around and never told any jokes and were serious all the time? I don't think Christian values and athletic competition are adversarial forces pulling on the family or anything like that...if athletic competition can pull you away from your values than those probably weren't real strong values. I am not trying to get into a values arguement. You can feel the way you want to about the author said about Women in sports. However it is a valid point to believe that athletic competion, ALL athletic competion can (but NOT Always) go against against christain/ biblical values. The biblical view of women, in many ways is very differant from "today's society". Different doesnt make them all wrong. ANYTHING can be done in excess and that is not a good thing. I am a firm believer that Athletic competion should be a part of life, but not the main or only part. To me, that should be what is taken from what the autor is saying. Does he go overboard, in my opinion, yes, I said that earlier. When I commented on the "humor value" I wasnt saying that Jesus was serious all of the time. On the contrary, the Bible is full of humorous storys and dialog. I was refering to the nater of the comments that here posted here. I found some of them "offensive" That said, I am not about to point out which ones or make Judgement about them. Its just my opinon. I also dont agree with everythng the quoted author is saying. I do feel that he is closer to the truth than what he is given credit for here. In today's society the thing to do, when you dont agree or understand someones point of view, is to discredit them. The "Fundies", as they were refered to here, are a good example of that. Much of the flak "Fundies" get comes more from fear and misunderstanding. Its funny I say I am a Christain, and right away people think I am this "bible banging wacko" Talk about profiling. I am sorry, I said more than I meant too. I wasnt trying to offend or judge anybody, I was only voicing my opinion.
posted by daddisamm at 10:56 AM on March 11, 2005
I posted the link because it was sports-related and provocative. The fact that I found it laugh-out-loud stupid also helped, not to mention the author's fixation on sweaty grunting women in form-fitting athletic attire. (Can't blame him, though. I dream of being tagged out by Jennie Finch in a hard collision at home plate.) One reason that some religious people get flak is because they are always fishing for reasons to feel persecuted. A couple of sneers on an Internet message board is a long way from a crown of thorns.
posted by rcade at 11:41 AM on March 11, 2005
daddisamm: Its funny I say I am a Christain, and right away people think I am this "bible banging wacko" Wait a second - where did anyone call you a bible banging wacko? Was a comment deleted? I don't see anyone calling you that. Indeed, the comments related to your comment were commenting on the content of your post. I don't see a single thing where somebody is attacking or being critical of you personally.
posted by Joey Michaels at 01:03 PM on March 11, 2005
Did I say I was attacked? I was refering to how people are considered by others. Lets face it the Term "christain" causes some to imediatley think of "right wind wacko" If I felt attack I wouldnt be posting here.. Just because I said I was offended by some of the remarks doesnt mean I felt attacked. I am sorry if it was worded wrong, my intention wasnt say I was being attacked. If you called be a bible banging Wacko to my face I would more than likely say "thank You" sorry if I gave the wrong impression
posted by daddisamm at 02:51 PM on March 11, 2005
One reason that some religious people get flak is because they are always fishing for reasons to feel persecuted. A couple of sneers on an Internet message board is a long way from a crown of thorns. You are very true in what you say. But that can work both ways in today's world.
posted by daddisamm at 02:59 PM on March 11, 2005
True. But if you get any more reasonable about this, daddisamm, you'll completely ruin our chance for a good argument.
posted by rcade at 04:07 PM on March 11, 2005
Sorry to let you down, But I believe what I believe--and sometimes avoiding an arguemnet, even a good natured one, is the best way to go. If it makes feel better I did chuckle a little as to how carried away the author got!
posted by daddisamm at 04:18 PM on March 11, 2005
Did I say I was attacked? I was refering to how people are considered by others. I'm really not trying to start a fight here either, but I don't see evidence in the comments that people were even thinking you were a "bible banging wacko." Indeed, from my POV, you seem to be miles and miles away from any sort of "wacko" or "bible banging" stereotype. Now, as for the gent in the article, he comes across as a bible banging wacko. That being said, let's be fair and leave the bible out of it. He's just wacko plain and simple.
posted by Joey Michaels at 05:08 PM on March 11, 2005
OK - I think that people who believe women's place in the universe is to be subservient to men, regardless of divine authority or whatever rationalization they so choose to organize their specific prejudices, are, in fact, total fucking revisionist wackos. If that is the Christian view (and in most cases it is not) than they get the wacko stamp too.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 05:39 PM on March 11, 2005
Joey- please- your fishing--my use of the Wacko comment was only a general example. I was the first to actually use that term----Yes,I was offended by some of the language and the comments that was used here by some, Again I am not pointing fingers at anybody--I get offended by language in some posts on other topics-- Rcade can vouch for that...I usually ignore it. On this subject, that the author was talking about, how one feels about it depends on thier faith, religion or whatever you guys want to call it. I cant hide the fact that my view about women are closer to what this author is stating then what alot of you are thinking. That said, remember I have already said that this author went a little overboard. Just like some of you have gone overboard in calling him names or whatever. Who is right or wrong? As a christain, I have been taught not to judge others. At the same time, as I said before and to quote my old friend "popeye the sailor"---"I YAM what I YAM!!!! Now I'd rather talk about Baseball and How my Twins are finally going to get over the hump! Yes, I can say that I almost hate the Yanks and the Sox!!!! lol peace
posted by daddisamm at 06:27 PM on March 11, 2005
On this subject, that the author was talking about, how one feels about it depends on thier faith, religion or whatever you guys want to call it. I cant hide the fact that my view about women are closer to what this author is stating then what alot of you are thinking. For the record--I am a strong advocate for women in sports and in the work place. I am married to someone that I consider my partner. However we each have a specific role.-----------This horse is dead! Go Twins!
posted by daddisamm at 06:32 PM on March 11, 2005
On this we can agree. Yay baseball! And, even as a Red Sox fan, I will even give you a enthusiastic "Yay Twins." Ah, religion tears us apart and sports brings us back together.
posted by Joey Michaels at 06:53 PM on March 11, 2005
I try not to "judge" what other people say and or do.. Someone call Ripleys! We got a rare one here!
posted by Drood at 12:23 AM on March 12, 2005
From the "article": As a minimum, I hope you will agree with me that we should keep our daughters away from competitive sports and spend our time training them how to be Biblically feminine women, wives and mothers. Nope. Sorry.