12/18/24
November 03, 2003
"To get the game back to the way it was, we have to keep the goaltenders from coming out of the net to play the puck,": says Flyers GM Bob Clarke. He blames the NHL's lack of offence on roving netminders. "They're like third defensemen." Under Clarke's regime, goaltenders would be penalized for wandering behind their net or to the faceoff circles. Is this scheme so much more hoo-ha from one of the game's most noxious spokesmen, or a legitimate way to decongest the NHL game?
Terrible idea -- and not just because my Dallas Stars have a great wandering goalie. It would rob the league of the highlight-reel moments when a goalie gets caught out of the net and has to make a mad dash back.
posted by rcade at 01:53 PM on November 03, 2003
If a tender can get to and get rid of the puck and get back to the net, then no problem. But the 'untouchable' goalie thing has got to go. You leave the crease, you pay the price.
posted by garfield at 01:54 PM on November 03, 2003
Absolutely, Garf. Any goaltender caught outside the crease should expect to get checked. Clarke said he isn't in favor of the alternative, making wandering goalies "fair game." Bobby you bonehead, that’s the solution right there!
posted by Samsonov14 at 02:06 PM on November 03, 2003
rcade: Those goals are fun, but I'd trade them in a second for more overall offence. Anything that results in teams being able to get the offensive zone more easily is a positive to me. Most games are played between the blue lines these days. I say put a three-point-line-esque arc around the net and call it the goalie's wandering circle. Either that or chop down their equipment by half. I'm in the "change everything drastically" camp. This NHL can't survive.
posted by Succa at 02:12 PM on November 03, 2003
Head-hunting goalies is not the answer - just wait until one of those guys gets blasted into the boards head first and your $8 million stopper is fish food - and in the playoffs there are plenty of teams (like the Flyers) who would quietly reward that kind of strategy. Goalies are simply the most important players in any sport that I can think of. Like pitchers who pitch every game. I think they should mover the nets back to where they were, take out the red line (cuz they're not going to make the rinks bigger and lose that revenue), let sticks be curvy and regulate equipment. As far as I'm concerned the difference between old time 80s hockey and today isn't so much size of players and skill as it is goalie technology, style and equipment. These guys are too good.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:14 PM on November 03, 2003
This three-point-line-esque arc, should it be proportionally equivalent to 18 yards? And perhaps we can switch the ice, skates and sticks for grass and proper boots? ;-)
posted by billsaysthis at 02:14 PM on November 03, 2003
If the team doesn't want their goalie hurt, they won't activiate him to chase the puck. plain and simple. Risk and reward, my friend, risk and reward.
posted by garfield at 02:28 PM on November 03, 2003
I say the equipment is a sidebar concern. None of the league brass will admit that defence-first hockey is the problem. Goalies stop lots of shots yes, but how many of those are scoring chances? Pucks shot in desperation from the corner are not exciting. As long as it's easy to asphyxiate puck-carriers, everyone will have to emulate the Devils and Wild, and more teams are doing just that (see the Habs and Isles, the latest arrivals to the defensive cult party). Another idea I heard was to have a penalty for having too many players in the neutral zone. Sort of a three-in-the-key type infraction. I think it could work but would be too hard to police. But I know very little about what it's like to be a ref.
posted by Succa at 02:38 PM on November 03, 2003
The rules are fine they just need to start calling goalies who freeze the puck outside of the crease. It's gotten ridiculous and I don't think I've ever seen it called. The local annoucers have been talking about this for years and when you start to pay attention you realize the difference it would make.
posted by 86 at 02:49 PM on November 03, 2003
Another idea I heard was to have a penalty for having too many players in the neutral zone. Sort of a three-in-the-key type infraction. I think it could work but would be too hard to police. But I know very little about what it's like to be a ref. Not only tough to police, but it would slow the game down tremendously. One of the biggest problems with hockey, and likely one of the biggest barriers to offense, is there are way too many stops in play right now. Between all the icings and offsides, it's tough to get much flow going and it can turn off casual fans (like myself).
posted by Ufez Jones at 03:06 PM on November 03, 2003
How to improve scoring without totally changing the game? * Either international sized ice or get rid of the 2-line offsides pass * Start calling hooking, clutch-and-grab, interference and other obstruction penalties * Keep calling those obstruction penalties (how many times have we heard 'we really mean it' only to have them stop calling it after 1 or 2 months?) The trap mostly relies on defense that is illegal (see last year's playoffs for a demonstration) - offense is killed by keeping them from the puck (interference) or delaying them from getting to the puck (with hooks, trips, holds). Start calling that and these teams have to start playing hockey. Anyone find it odd that Clarke is bitching? Philly is a scoring machine this year.
posted by kokaku at 03:25 PM on November 03, 2003
Clarke is a moron. Wait, did he say something? I just call him a moron out of habit now. Seriously though, I think that the only change they need is to ditch the red line entirely. It would allow teams to make longer passes out of their end (stretching the defence and making it difficult for the trap to work) OR allow teams to dump the puck into the opposition's zone from just past their own blue line (anything from the other side would still be icing, EVEN DURING A PENALTY) while the winger is skating full tilt (sort of like a timing pass in soccer or football). This would stop the goalie from coming out of his net as the speedy opposition player would wreak havoc in the defensive zone. In turn, this would put emphasis on the smaller/faster players in the NHL. There would still be a need for behemoths on defence (to clear the front of the net), but smaller skilled players would become more common.
posted by grum@work at 03:54 PM on November 03, 2003
I would definitely like to see the 2 line pass eliminated on a tleast a trial basis. And goalie equipment should be better regulated: is there the equivalent of an illegal stick for goalies with over-large pads? I assume there is, but that no one ever challenges it. The NHL should play a few games of NHL 94 and figure out what works best: allow the two-line pass, encourage slapshots from the blue line, watch out for guys circling the face off circles and players who can perform "The Move." And stop clutching Joe Thorton. Why can't they ever stick with calling interference?
posted by yerfatma at 04:01 PM on November 03, 2003
Fatty, I'm with you on the Thornton thing, but I wish Joe didn't have to sound like such a whiny little bitch in the papers today. Unless they start calling all the clutching and grabbing, he's going to have to learn to fall down like Forsberg does. And that sucks.
posted by Samsonov14 at 05:11 PM on November 03, 2003
If anything ruins offensive, free-wheeling hockey, its the suffocating left-wing lock played by teams like the Devils. It totally stagnates the offensive play, making it a complete dump-and-chase game of pond hockey. It makes it no fun to watch as well.
posted by insomnyuk at 10:33 PM on November 03, 2003
Clark is a moron. If you stop the goalie from playing the puck, then all you're doing is encouraging more dump-and-chase hockey. Yes, some good, speedy forecheckers might turn those opportunities into scoring chances, but those are going to be few and far between and aren't going to cause a massive upswing in goals. Just more dump-and-chase, and that's not too exciting. Gimmicks aren't going to "fix" the NHL's scoring "woes", and most of the suggestions ARE gimmicks. The problem is that the game is fundamentally different than it was before. Players are better and more athletic; goalies, bigger pads or not, are far better than they were, and have superior goalie styles (no more stand-up goalies); scouting and pre-match video preparation were virtually non-existant before; the league is far bigger than it was, thus diluting the talent pool; etc etc. Personally, I think it's foolish to think that removing the red line will increase goal scoring. Remember, The Trap is a European bred system developed on international sized rinks with no red lines. Removing the red line will just cause defenders to fall back a bit more (and hence, be out of the offensive end of play), and will increase the numbers of icings. And more stopages in play is something that we do not need. They removed space behind the net and decreased goalie pad size this year... and scoring is still way down. Gimmicks! IMO, if you want to increase scoring, leave the game as is and remove six or so teams from the league.
posted by mkn at 01:54 AM on November 04, 2003
Maybe, and this is just an idle thought, you silly Americans should play to international rules? /mild_troll
posted by salmacis at 05:26 AM on November 04, 2003
Why in God's name should the goalie get special treatment? Sure, we protect the quarterback to some extent, but not from getting hit, just from flagrantly late hits, helmet-to-helmet contact, etc. I say the next time a netminder goes wandering out into the corner, we send Tie Domi to meld his skull with the glass. Might make a few others think twice about making the trip.
posted by wfrazerjr at 08:30 AM on November 04, 2003
Grum, I stopped listening to anything that comes out of Bobby Clarke's mouth decades ago. The guy is full of hot air and has done nothing but kill the spirit of that hockey club. That team will never win a cup until they break up the old boys network there and get some real management in Philadelphia.
posted by rosey8810 at 09:13 AM on November 04, 2003
I want to argue with you about why goalie's shouldn't be subject to the same rules of contact as other players - but I'm not sure there's a really good arguement to be made - except that I would fear that running the goaltender would become a job for some players. People get maimed enough in this league. And I really fail to see how it's going to produce more goals - that has to be the most indirect way of dealing with the problem I can think of. (Gentlemen - guess what - in the high scoring 80s - goalies also played the puck.) Don't limit their mobility - limit the size of their equipment. Just look at a picture of Grant Fuhr in 1985 and a picture of Garth Snow yesterday. They look like they play different sports. Yes - goalies are simply better than they used to be, but the equipment matters (blockers and catching gloves are insanely huge).
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:15 PM on November 04, 2003
Weedy, you're on the money....pads are just too friggin big. But refs don't call delay of game when they should....ya know when the forwards have been buzzing for 30 seconds, take a shot, and then the whistle blows because the tender is halfway to the face off dot smothering the puck. If play would continue, a scramble for the rebound, combined with a fatigued defense would generate probably about another goal per game, on average, and that is being conservative. Dealing with the roving tender issue would also help the dump n' chase teams establish O-zone play, ya know, because the neutral zone trap sucks the life out of puck handlers. Oh, and the redline sucks too.
posted by garfield at 02:12 PM on November 04, 2003
Egad - what I wouldn't give to see forwards buzzing for 30 seconds - I watch Leaf hockey, remember? The only buzzing I see is the red light behind Belfour.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:34 PM on November 04, 2003
Fuckin Svehla! I just got the CenterIce package over the weekend, while I was away, so I have yet to see a complete Leaf tilt. Lucky me.
posted by garfield at 03:47 PM on November 04, 2003
After spending the weekend in Toronto (folks, if you live nearby, get out to a Barrie Colts game — cheap tickets, nice folks and Bobby Freakin' Orr was at the game!), I'm going to call and ask if I can get back 1/30th of the cash I paid for Center Ice, because there's no way I should be paying to see the Leafs. How does one give up seven goals at home? Egad.
posted by wfrazerjr at 05:38 PM on November 04, 2003
Oh yeah, [via Puck Update] I say Clarke has a point. Wandering goalies kill any chance of speeding past a trapping defence. Usually a forechecker at full speed won't even reach the bottom of the faceoff circle by the time Brodeur has flipped the puck back out. Clarke's idea is radical, but radical is what the league needs.