12/21/24
October 09, 2003
Red Sox beat Yankees: to take a 1-0 lead in the ALCS. During the Red Sox-Yankees series the Boston Globe is exchanging sports columns with the New York Times.
posted by kirkaracha to baseball at 10:10 AM - 29 comments
Dan Shaughnessey...the Boston viewpoint. Yankee fans should grow to like him quickly...with all the "Curse of the Bambino" banter and a disappreciation of most Sox players (especially David Ortiz)
posted by YukonGold at 10:48 AM on October 09, 2003
Everyone in baseball knows Wakefield throws knucklers. Everyone sees them coming. Everyone else can hit them. Time Wakefield's career record. It doesn't look like everyone else can hit them to me. If they could, he'd be washing cars somewhere. I think I get your point, though. There's nothing more frustrating than seeing your team handcuffed by a guy who looks like your grandmother could take him. I used to think the same thing watching Bob Tewksbury pitch for the Cardinals. The only reason Tom Pagnozzi won Gold Gloves was that no one on the Cardinal staff threw hard enough to warrant using a mitt.
posted by wfrazerjr at 11:16 AM on October 09, 2003
If it was that effective, we'd see more knuckleballs. No. If it were that easy to throw well, we'd see full staffs of flutterball pitchers. I can't even figure out how to push (not throw) a bad knuckleball, much less a good one. I can appreciate your frustration though: there's nothing the least bit dominating about the pitch's appearance, but he dominated like a fireballer last night. Wakefield's effectiveness can be mysterious, even to himself. The one thing making me feel better coming into last night was the unseasonably warm weather. He had a good game, but he also had a great second half of the season. Take a look at his game log: there are a few stinkers, but for the most part, "everyone else" didn't hit him hard either.
posted by yerfatma at 11:34 AM on October 09, 2003
the Boston Globe is exchanging sports columns with the New York Times The NYT has partial ownership of the Red Sox, and of course an interest in them winning.
posted by djacobs at 12:11 PM on October 09, 2003
and the NYT owns the Globe. ah, full circle.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:14 PM on October 09, 2003
Shaughnessy for Vecsesy? Another lousy trade by Boston.
posted by kokaku at 12:36 PM on October 09, 2003
Pitchers who can throw an effective knuckleball in the bigs are rare -- there aren't many players with the talent and the mental discipline to keep serving them up. My favorite pitchers all throw that junk; I was a big fan of Charlie Hough for years in Texas. One of the problems the Rangers had during the years Hough was their ace was the difficulty playing behind him. It seemed like the Texas fielders would go to sleep every time he pitched and commit lots of errors.
posted by rcade at 12:50 PM on October 09, 2003
Another lousy trade by Boston. You obviously don't know Dan-O. We'd trade him for a used bag of pucks.
posted by yerfatma at 01:11 PM on October 09, 2003
I've been reading Shaughn for a long time. Nothing satisfies him. But Vecsey? Maybe it's a push - one blowhard for one empty box.
posted by kokaku at 01:13 PM on October 09, 2003
Just curious. Does any knucleballer have a good fastball? I mean it has been a long time since I have watched a knuckleballer but don't they just have stuff, slow stuff and freaky non-spinning slow stuff?
posted by gspm at 01:39 PM on October 09, 2003
accepting of course that the difference between the delivery of a kunckleball and a fastball is so significant that you would never catch anyone by surprise by switching from one pitch to the next since you'd be able to tell the difference in the windup (I presume) perhaps rendering the value of a fastball a moot point to a knuckleballer.
posted by gspm at 01:41 PM on October 09, 2003
gspm, the Niekros had pretty good fastballs back in their day...not 95 mph heaters, but they were an effective change of pace.
posted by therev at 02:26 PM on October 09, 2003
I'm fascinated by knuckleballers. I wish there was some sort of scientifc study about them.
posted by corpse at 02:42 PM on October 09, 2003
I wish there was some sort of scientifc study about them. Are you joking around? If not, here you go (found here). Or did you mean the pitchers?
posted by yerfatma at 03:53 PM on October 09, 2003
Three more science of knuckleball articles.
posted by Joey Michaels at 03:56 PM on October 09, 2003
I explained this in another board, it's not so much a diss against knucklers, because Wake had it working last night, but anger at the Yankees for not adjusting. It's just like in 01 against Schilling. that team excelled at working the count, wearing pitchers out, getting on base any way possible, etc. But Schilling excelled at first pitch hard strikes and then owning you while ahead in the count and using the splitter. Something like .090 ba against when ahead in the count. Since he had destroyed them every chance he had gotten so far, and armed with those stats, you'd think that they'd alter their strategy a bit and swing at those first pitch strikes, which were nice juicy fastballs much of the time. Nope. Even in Game 7 after seeing him twice already, they were watching first pitches go by. Then they were dead. Adjust the strategy. Who cares if he's only then got 60 pitches through 7 innings? He'd go 9 either way, and you'd be on base a lot more often. That pissed me off to no end. Last night was the same. Lay off the ones that you know are coming and are going to duck out of the zone. Know that they're dropping and adjust your swing. etc. there were no adjustments. Not coincidentally, there were no hits.
posted by Bernreuther at 04:17 PM on October 09, 2003
thanks, yerfatma, and joey, I was just using lazyfilter.
posted by corpse at 06:24 PM on October 09, 2003
aaarrggh why is bret boone back in the broadcast booth tonight? fox broadcasters suck.
posted by jerseygirl at 07:15 PM on October 09, 2003
I would just like to say, nothing drives me more crazy, than the stupid computer generate ad behind the batter. That has to be the most annoying advertisement known to man.
posted by corpse at 09:13 PM on October 09, 2003
I would love to be able to "hack" that ad behind the plate to say "Fox sucks!" or "Steve Lyons is an idiot!". All you'd need to do is get access to their control truck (where they convert the solid green background to the desired advertisement). I'm sure it's a simple "flip of the switch" or "press of the key" to choose which ad is going to show up there.
posted by grum@work at 09:51 PM on October 09, 2003
fox broadcasters suck. that's why i turn the sound off on the tv and listen to the radio. Sterling and Steiner aren't the greatest, but it's beats listeing to fuckingtimihatetheyankeesmccarver and joefuckingbuck. although it is a bit weird because of the time delay on tv. it's kind of like watching a badly dubbed movie.
posted by goddam at 10:13 PM on October 09, 2003
but it's beats listeing to fuckingtimihatetheyankeesmccarver You're joking right? Tim McCarver hates the Yankees? You really must be listening to the radio.
posted by YukonGold at 07:09 AM on October 10, 2003
eh, maybe i'm wrong. maybe i'm a little too drunk when i watch these games. it just seems that mccarver exhibits a certain amount of schadenfreude whenever the yankees play like crap.
posted by goddam at 08:30 AM on October 10, 2003
I don't mind Boone, especially since he kept disagreeing with McCarver. Al Leiter wasn't that bad either, but he's looking a lot thinner than he used to be. Bizzare
posted by corpse at 10:39 AM on October 10, 2003
it just seems that mccarver exhibits a certain amount of schadenfreude whenever the yankees play like crap. ugh. if these national announcers were any further up the Yankees ass they'd be wearing Jeter's batting helmet. The Red Sox rarely get respect from national announcers - and this goes for regular season also. What drove me over the edge was a comment about a dribbler that went down the first base line and Millar let it go foul. One of the announcers (I think it was the Monday ESPN game with Joe Morgan and Ben Franklin) said, "Bill Buckner anyone?" what the hell was that about? That was no where near Buckner. The only time you have parity in announcing these games is when they let Remy sit in on the announcing duties on Fox. That usually calms down these fools. The foul ball thing in the 7th last night? Lame. Let it go. This wouldn't be an issue if it was the Yankee's HR. As far as Boone... he's not horrible and he's not a bad guy at all, but he doesn't really have anything to add. He's not an announcer and more times than not, he's just sitting there silently. Bring in a local announcer for each team. Add a bit of flavor and perspective for the audience.
posted by jerseygirl at 11:57 AM on October 10, 2003
Yankee fans (like Bernreuther) really take losing hard. Earlier in this post Bernreuther is complaining about the Yankee performance against Curt Schilling in the 2001 WS. As I recall, the Yankees had that won going in to the bottom of the ninth of game seven and lost on a throwing error and a couple of timely hits by the D'backs.
posted by cg1001a at 12:01 PM on October 10, 2003
Bret Boone had long stretches of nothing to add ... which is preferable to having Tim McCarver speaking. How can you rip Joe Buck, though? I think he's about the most personable and knowledgable baseball guy out there (I'm leaving out the untouchables, i.e. Miller, Scully, etc.). You know what I really like, though? He isn't afraid to ask a question of the other broadcasters, and he also isn't afraid to call them on stupid comments.
posted by wfrazerjr at 12:45 PM on October 10, 2003
"Bill Buckner anyone?" That was Brenneman and Lyons on Fox, certainly the nadir of the playoffs, commentary-wise. Throw Leiter into that booth and the world might implode.
posted by yerfatma at 02:52 PM on October 10, 2003
Everyone in baseball knows Wakefield throws knucklers. Everyone sees them coming. Everyone else can hit them. Not the Yankees. The Yankees can only manage 2 hits, and 6 in their last 2 games against him, despite seeing him 5 times this year. I am a generally gracious loser and give credit where it is due, but I have a hard time accepting how much the Yankee offense fucking sucks. Yes, they flutter a bit, but they generally leave the hand, slowly approach, and drop down. It's very predictable. If it was that effective, we'd see more knuckleballs. I just don't get it. These are professional hitters with all the resources in the world, they ought to be able to figure it out, prepare for it, and get some practice about it... And as usual the Sox offense is scary. Hopefully Pettitte can keep them in check, because if he doesn't, this team is going to get swept.