12/21/24
October 06, 2015
SportsFilter: The Tuesday Huddle:
A place to discuss the sports stories that aren't making news, share links that aren't quite front-page material, and diagram plays on your hand. Remember to count to five Mississippi before commenting in anger.
The refs missed a call, but how many times do they make that call? I can't remember it ever happening.
I guess defensive players need to learn how to pantomime recovery attempts that knock the ball out coincidentally.
posted by rcade at 11:55 AM on October 06, 2015
A technically wrong call where no injustice was done. The Lions were never going to recover that ball in bounds so their only hope was a rule so obscure that only the official knows it.
posted by tron7 at 02:24 PM on October 06, 2015
It's not that obscure. ESPN and NFL Network both were talking about it within minutes of the game's end.
posted by rcade at 07:59 PM on October 06, 2015
A technically wrong call where no injustice was done.
I agree that the Lions got themselves into the situation and did not deserve to be bailed out, but a rule is a rule. If you are going to go to selective or situational enforcement, you are opening up a large metal container of a species within the phylum Annelida.
It's not that obscure.
Former Patriots linebacker Roosevelt Colvin bragged via Twitter that Belichick had the team practice this in situational drills.
posted by Howard_T at 09:10 PM on October 06, 2015
If Chris Archer's career as a superstar pitcher doesn't pan out, I'm pretty sure that every baseball broadcasting company in North America will line up to pay him big bucks to join their team.
That was some incredibly insightful and intelligent commentary on the pitching. It was also polite ("Sorry, ma'am." when he interrupted Mendoza) and required absolutely zero filler ("um, uh, like").
The fact that the kid was drafted right out of high school is even more surprising.
(I wished he hung around an extra inning or two, and they asked Kruk to go to the concession stands to grab a snack in the meantime.)
posted by grum@work at 09:37 PM on October 06, 2015
How are the Lions undeserving of a bail out in that situation? They had the Seahawks on the ropes and the ball at the 1. They were playing well enough to deserve the upset.
If Kam Chancellor intercepted a pass to end the Lions drive, but it was called back because someone else committed defensive holding, no one would call that an undeserved outcome.
Why would it be undeserved if another Chancellor-forced turnover was called back by a batted-ball penalty?
posted by rcade at 09:38 PM on October 06, 2015
It's not that obscure.
Maybe obscure isn't the right word but I've watched a lot of football and never seen it called.
How are the Lions undeserving of a bail out in that situation?
The Lions fumbled the ball out of the back of the end zone or close enough that it makes no matter. If you can make a judgement call that he knocked it out on purpose why can't you make the judgement call that he would have easily recovered the fumble or at the very least knocked it of bounds by accident. Was the spirit of the rule broken? Was any competitive advantage achieved? I say no on both so I don't care that it wasn't called. If you want it called just for the sake of the rule then we are going to disagree.
posted by tron7 at 10:51 PM on October 06, 2015
What tron7 said; I'm reminded often when browsing the web (in particular, the comments section of most any site where people debate law, politics, or sports) of Kohlberg's three general stages of moral development: pure obedience, law and order, and principled conscience. Most sports commentary- unsurprisingly, given how sports media doesn't exactly select for insight or intellect- is stuck in stage 2, with an obsession of rules for rule's sake.
Sure, the obscure rule says you can't do that, but if we ponder why such a rule exists, I think it's because everywhere else on the field, you have dozens of yards to recover a fumbled ball and retain possession, but in the end zone there is no such leeway because there is an invisible back wall. However, watching the replay... that ball was going out of bounds. Maybe an incredible play by Riddick who I saw come in from the bottom of the frame at the end of the clip, might have dived and stopped it, but he wasn't diving when the ball was touched a foot or so from the back of the end zone. For all intents and purposes, that was a fumble that went out of the back of the end zone, namely a touchback. And for me, it looked like Wright had a very brief hesitation between grabbing it, slapping it, or letting it go- aren't defensive players taught to slap the ball out of bounds most anywhere else on the field?- but in any case it's not like a Lion was going to get the ball. I prefer refs that consider the context and nature of this specific play to decide if an obscure rule should even be invoked.
posted by hincandenza at 01:33 AM on October 07, 2015
When the Lions lost a game in 2010 because Calvin Johnson intentionally put the ball on the ground after a touchdown catch and it was called incomplete, the defenders of the call said that the rule sucked but he broke it.
Doesn't that apply here? Unlike that situation, this one is pretty cut and dried. The player intentionally batted the fumbled ball after it hit the ground.
Rules in sports should be enforced. If the rule is bad, get rid of it later. If we let the refs decide whether a rule is too obscure to enforce, that's an arbitrary standard no fan would accept against their team.
posted by rcade at 08:58 AM on October 07, 2015
Mark it zero!
posted by tron7 at 10:21 AM on October 07, 2015
Rules in sports should be enforced. If the rule is bad, get rid of it later. If we let the refs decide whether a rule is too obscure to enforce, that's an arbitrary standard no fan would accept against their team.
Quoting for truth. He broke the rule because he knew batting the ball would more likely lead to a positive outcome than falling on it or trying to pick it up, and the rules say you can't do that.
posted by Etrigan at 11:16 AM on October 07, 2015
I added the video to your comment, Tron7, because I searched for your reference. How have I not seen The Big Lebowski?
posted by rcade at 12:43 PM on October 07, 2015
I . . . uh, what? I don't know who you are any more rcade.
posted by yerfatma at 02:03 PM on October 07, 2015
Add me to the list of dumbfounded SpoFites right now.
posted by Ufez Jones at 02:19 PM on October 07, 2015
a species within the phylum Annelida
whoop ass?
Worms. I could not resist the temptation to try to sound erudite.
What I was trying to say was that putting the enforcement/non-enforcement of a given rule on the basis of the game situation into the hands of the officials would result in chaos. The idea is to rid the officials of the responsibility to judge intent, possible outcome, or whether a team is deserving of the call.
posted by Howard_T at 05:06 PM on October 07, 2015
Uh, oh. I haven't seen Lebowski. Nor many other popular cultural milestones. Which I won't list, because I guess these severe shortcomings are disturbing to some.
Also have not been inside a major league pro sports facility since 1986 and have never tried to get anyone's autograph. Never wagered, collected baseball cards, or played any video games, and have no idea how fantasy sports works. Yikes. I'm screwed.
I guess I follow sports because the only other place that currently interests me where wild, heroic shit occurs that stretches the boundaries of credibility is Airplane Repo.
I've tried to spend more time improving myself by watching public television, but if I want to learn about deeply flawed human beings, Douglas MacArthur can't touch George Steinbrenner.
posted by beaverboard at 05:37 PM on October 07, 2015
Add me to the list of dumbfounded SpoFites right now.
I'm not even American, but my kids can quote The Big Lebowski, and my step-daughter's dog is called The Dude.
posted by owlhouse at 10:34 PM on October 07, 2015
Why does it seem like the referees forget the rule book when it comes to the Lions?
The fumble by Calvin Johnson near the goal line cost the Lions a potential win, and the referees missed an illegal bat by Seattle's K.J. Wright in the end zone that sealed the deal.