12/21/24
May 12, 2013
Goodell wants your team to sign Tim Tebow: I am sick of Tim Tebow, but apparently Roger Goodell is not.
This sounds like a manufactured story. This is the actual exchange.
Wyche: Quickly, a Tim Tebow question: With all of the attention this guy gets -- be it good, bad or indifferent -- is it good to have Tim Tebow in the NFL?
Goodell: Well, he's a great young man. And I try to stay out of the decisions about who should be playing in the NFL and on what team. But as a young man, he's just a super young guy, and I sure hope he's part of the NFL going forward. He's just a terrific young man and represents all of the values that I think all of our players do. I'm very proud of our players. I think, as a group, they're extraordinary young men, and I love to see the things they're doing in the community. They're obviously great athletes on the field, but these are great young men, and Tim's a good example of that.
What else would he say? That is the PR 101 answer to a question like that. It says nothing about whether Goodell thinks Tebow is a good player or deserves to be on a team.
posted by feloniousmonk at 08:32 PM on May 12, 2013
"Hey, don't blame me, white Christian SEC fans, I'm doin' everything I can here!"
posted by Etrigan at 09:14 PM on May 12, 2013
The guy does sell tickets, get headlines, and generally make money for the NFL, which is why Roger Goodell would mostly care.
posted by Bonkers at 09:59 PM on May 12, 2013
So much dislike for Tebow, it's kind of hard to believe. I guess I was one of the only ones who watched and remember how exciting his season was in Denver. The fans loved it in Denver, and the only ones who seemed to despise it in the city was Elway and Fox. Then the most embarrassing organization in today's NFL, the Jets, mess up his situation, seemingly intent on failing with Mark Sanchez. I just won't believe he would do worse than that guy!
Teams must be looking to avoid him. Goodell, in the meantime, sees teams running to draft or sign criminals, drug addicts, etc. I really think teams don't want to risk him starting, winning ugly, then not being able to get him out of town (unless they have a QB like a Manning to step in). Teams would rather lose with a guy like Michael Vick, who has a hell of a arm but can't hit anyone, then with a guy like Tebow who can't throw well.
posted by dyams at 10:27 PM on May 12, 2013
I really think teams don't want to risk him starting, winning ugly, then not being able to get him out of town (unless they have a QB like a Manning to step in). Teams would rather lose with a guy like Michael Vick, who has a hell of a arm but can't hit anyone, then with a guy like Tebow who can't throw well.
The problem with "winning ugly" is that it's really not a repeatable skill.
Here are names of quarterbacks who had a similar season to Tebow's 2011 (number of attempts > 200 and pass completion % < 50%):
Ryan Leaf
Akili Smith
Heath Shuler
Craig Whelihan
Stan Gelbaugh
Browning Nagle
Not a very inspiring list.
posted by grum@work at 11:18 PM on May 12, 2013
Roster spot or no roster spot, if I were the commissioner of SpoFi, I would want Tebow to continue to be in the discussion mix one way or another, since his presence alone can take a thread that ordinarily might be good for a modest dozen posts or so and easily spin it into a 30-40 post county fair heifer.
If Tebow were to ever elbow a kid out of the walk up line at an ice cream stand, the post count for a thread on that topic would climb right up into Sandusky territory.
posted by beaverboard at 11:46 PM on May 12, 2013
The fans loved it in Denver, and the only ones who seemed to despise it in the city was Elway and Fox.
This is completely incorrect. There was heavy criticism of Tebow after every single game and an equal measure of Tebow worship to go with it. You could not talk about the Broncos without it getting contentious. The local sports talk radio was having the time of their lives. I've never seen a fan base so split on one of their own players. I was watching one of the games at a bar and there was nearly a fight mid game between the pro-Tebow and anti-Tebow factions. Take what you see nationally and turn the volume up to 11 if you want to know what it was like in Denver for Tebow time.
posted by tron7 at 02:27 AM on May 13, 2013
Yeah, that whole winning-games thing is enough to piss any team and their fans off. Having to fill Kyle Orton's shoes would be a daunting task for anyone.
As for grums names/stats, those are well and good, but for the guy to not even have a chance to play, or see the field for any meaningful time? If themJets committed to the guy for part of their horrendous season and he was horrible, then so be it. I'm not going to say Tebow playing horribly would even be a surprise to me. But there are plenty of bad QBs on NFL rosters, and I don't think their skills or ability are that much better.
posted by dyams at 06:04 AM on May 13, 2013
But there are plenty of bad QBs on NFL rosters, and I don't think their skills or ability are that much better.
I appreciate a Devil's Advocate as much as the next guy, but you're taking it a bit far. Putting aside his Jeter-like intangibles, which starting quarterbacks in the league would you prefer Tebow over? I think there are a few, but we must have different definitions of "plenty". I say that as someone who wants to see Tebow get a fair shot to succeed or fail, but out of your list of "plenty" of quarterbacks you'd prefer him to, which ones would you think Tebow would beat out in that lame Pro Bowl competition for quarterbacks? I know the NFL isn't all throwing footballs through truck tires, but have you seen his throwing motion? It looks like a guy having a stroke mid-toss. Even during his wins in Denver, a highlight package of just his throws would look like a pre-success music montage from a Major League-style sports movie where the coaches all start covering their eyes with their clipboards and saying, "It's gonna be a looooong season."
posted by yerfatma at 09:30 AM on May 13, 2013
Yeah, that whole winning-games thing is enough to piss any team and their fans off. Having to fill Kyle Orton's shoes would be a daunting task for anyone.
Oh, I know, we are such horrible fans.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
posted by tron7 at 12:00 PM on May 13, 2013
So much dislike for Tebow, it's kind of hard to believe.
And the other side says "So much love for Tebow, it's kind of hard to believe".
He's probably the most polarizing athlete alive today, so strong love/hate on either side is to be expected.
posted by justgary at 03:40 PM on May 13, 2013
Putting aside his Jeter-like intangibles, which starting quarterbacks in the league would you prefer Tebow over?
Every Jaguars quarterback after David Garrard.
Tebow should already be on somebody's team as a backup. He shouldn't be out of the league already after what he accomplished in Denver.
posted by rcade at 04:32 PM on May 13, 2013
He's probably the most polarizing athlete alive today, so strong love/hate on either side is to be expected.
Tiger Woods?
posted by grum@work at 04:46 PM on May 13, 2013
Most polarizing virgin athlete.
posted by beaverboard at 05:09 PM on May 13, 2013
Yes, I was including all quarterbacks, including backups. I'm not ready to accept he can't be on a roster.
And from, I never said Denver fans were horrible. It's just that all the cheering and screaming during all those exciting, comeback wins made it real hard for most outside the city to notice how much Tebow was despised that season.
posted by dyams at 05:23 PM on May 13, 2013
I guess it kinda does look like from.
There was a lot that went into the Tebow hate. He was drafted by McDaniels (universally hated here) who traded up to get him when seemingly no one else wanted him. There's Tim being Tim, which some people just can not handle. There's the Tebow fans who are just relentless and basically forced Tebow into the starting lineup over Brady Quinn who was Orton's backup at the time (Tebow was third string) and that didn't sit well when a player's fanbase seems to be pulling the strings. Then, when Tebow does get to play neither side ever got a foothold in the argument. Tebow would look just mind-numingly awful and still win, or he would play pretty well one week and abysmally the next. Both sides had something to cling to every week. Was it exciting? Hell yes. Did I have any confidence that Tebow could replicate his modest success? No.
posted by tron7 at 06:23 PM on May 13, 2013
Most polarizing virgin athlete.
Certainly the most virgin polarizing athlete.
posted by tron7 at 06:23 PM on May 13, 2013
He's probably the most polarizing athlete alive today, so strong love/hate on either side is to be expected.
Tiger Woods?
I would argue that Tebow is the most polarizing athlete when it comes to his playing. There are people out there -- I'm related to at least two of them -- who really do think he'd make a great QB, if he found a coach willing to mold a team around him. His evangelical Christianity is also polarizing, but you could take that away and you'd still have that argument over whether he's any good.
On the other hand, no one thinks Tiger Woods is an overrated golfer; he's just a dick. Ditto Ray Lewis, who we all may recall is a fairly off-the-field polarizing figure on this board, but I don't recall anyone who's willing to say he's not a Hall of Fame player. I mean, shit, if you're talking off-the-field polarizing, OJ is still alive.
posted by Etrigan at 07:16 PM on May 13, 2013
I understand the criticism regarding Tebow's passing ability, but the rest of it still baffles me. Any individual as devoted to religion as he is is taught to constantly spread the word of God. He has been given a certain level of fame which allows him to constantly domjust that. It obviously polarizes many, but in a league (the NFL) where individuals with serious moral/character flaws are celebrated, hating Tebow is something I can't do.
Maybe it's the leadership qualities he seems to show when he is on the field and given a chance that can somewhat compensate for his lack of skills. My god, Mark Sanchez has some of the QB skills, but his intangibles suck. I will never wrap my mind around the fact the Jets brought him in and let him rot on the sidelines while their team, with a depth chart of sucky QBs, looked more and more foolish.
It seems Tebow would be better suited for a backup role on a team with a very strong starter, which Sanchez was light years from being.
posted by dyams at 07:45 PM on May 13, 2013
Any individual as devoted to religion as he is is taught to constantly spread the word of God.
People are taught all kinds of wacky-ass things in the name of religion, and freedom doesn't mean I don't get to (at least) roll my eyes when they do those things.
Maybe it's the leadership qualities he seems to show when he is on the field and given a chance that can somewhat compensate for his lack of skills.
I can't really speak to whether he shows leadership qualities, but was any Bronco vocal about seeing him go? Has any Jet expressed displeasure at his departure? (I don't remember either of those things happening, but I don't live in either of those media markets, so I wouldn't have heard as much about it as I did about Titus Young getting cut)
posted by Etrigan at 08:17 PM on May 13, 2013
The Broncos didn't complain because they had Manning coming in. The Jets didn't complain because they're a bunch of dysfunctional losers.
posted by dyams at 10:06 PM on May 13, 2013
Tiger Woods?
Well, I did say 'probably'.
But yeah, I'd put my money on Tebow. I wouldn't even consider them that comparable. Tiger is the greatest golfer of his generation, maybe of all time. When you're the best, people love to hate you, others worship you. But other than the bizarre falling apart of his marriage, he's basically Michael Jordan; a guy talented and driven and considered kind of a dick by some people. Being dominant and driven and hated isn't that uncommon.
Tebow is polarizing off and on the field. And he's become this without having much of a career at all. Tiger is polarizing, but that Tebow can be considered in the same league is pretty amazing.
I think Tebow's a bad quarterback, and I find Tebow's religious views obnoxious, but I don't hate him. I think he's just a pawn for a lot of groups. If you actually listen to him speak, he's pretty vanilla and cliched.
Now Josh Hamilton, there's a guy I can't stand...
posted by justgary at 12:34 AM on May 14, 2013
The Broncos didn't complain because they had Manning coming in. The Jets didn't complain because they're a bunch of dysfunctional losers.
So basically, Tebow couldn't lead a good team enough to make them (not players nor coaches nor management) want him even as a backup, nor a bad team enough to make them (not players nor coaches nor management) want him even as a backup. Maybe he isn't actually the leader you think he is.
Admittedly, I've never thought much of "leadership" in football, for a variety of reasons, but I can't see Tebow as an exemplar of the form.
posted by Etrigan at 07:27 AM on May 14, 2013
Urban Meyer and his staff didn't do Tebow any favors by allowing him to head to the draft suffering under the delusion that he was destined to be a starting NFL QB.
Other QB's made the transition to another position in the pros after winning a title in college. Rex Kern comes to mind.
I still can't understand how Florida's offense was so successful with Tebow under center. I can understand the success when Leak was the starter and Tebow was the wild card change of pace, but when Tebow became the starter and opposing DC's got used to how UF looked on offense with Tebow in there, the sets and play sequences became highly predictable. Defenses should have known what was coming, and some of those QB running plays seemed like they took an hour and a half to develop when you watched them on TV. Tebow looked ponderous hitting the hole. His main skill looked like it was hanging onto the football after contact.
Somebody should have been able to stop that Tebow-led unit. They had standouts on the OL and highly athletic skill position people, but Tebow never looked like a dynamic game changer himself.
Tebow is fortunate that Saban was just digging out from his Dolphins fiasco and retooling Alabama after their Franchione-Price-Shula nightmare when he (Tebow) and the UF offense were on top of their game. If Saban had gone to Bama a bit earlier in the decade, he might have been able to expose the UF offense in the middle of Tebow's college career, rather than at the end of it.
posted by beaverboard at 08:59 AM on May 14, 2013
So basically, Tebow couldn't lead a good team enough to make them (not players nor coaches nor management) want him even as a backup ...
I think you're reading too much into player silence. Most players don't comment on major personnel moves by their team. Knowing how strongly Elway felt about getting Manning, it would have been foolish and probably career threatening for a Broncos player to speak out against it.
Besides -- it's Peyton Freaking Manning. Who's going to argue against that?
... nor a bad team enough to make them (not players nor coaches nor management) want him even as a backup. Maybe he isn't actually the leader you think he is.
And you're reading too much into what happened in New York. The Jets are a completely dysfunctional organization.
Urban Meyer and his staff didn't do Tebow any favors by allowing him to head to the draft suffering under the delusion that he was destined to be a starting NFL QB.
I don't know how you can say that, given where he was drafted.
Somebody should have been able to stop that Tebow-led unit. They had standouts on the OL and highly athletic skill position people, but Tebow never looked like a dynamic game changer himself.
Kee-rist. Now we're going to delegitimize his college career too, despite his Heisman Trophy and presence on two national champions? Tebow won in college because he was great at that level. The college game was suited to his skills.
Knowing what's coming is irrelevant if you can't stop it. Jimmy Johnson's Dallas Cowboys often were predictable too in their two Super Bowl-winning years. But opponents couldn't stop them because they were so much better.
posted by rcade at 09:41 AM on May 14, 2013
I don't know how you can say that, given where he was drafted
By that logic the guys Belichick insists on drafting each year that cause ESPN to scramble for footage or notes because they weren't invited to the combine and aren't on anyone else's draft board should be solid starters. For God's sake people, we're letting this man tear Sportsfilter apart. Look what's happening to us. Maybe he's not a savior but the Anti-Christ.
Or maybe he's Jesus and we're self-separating into lambs and G.O.A.T.s.
posted by yerfatma at 10:13 AM on May 14, 2013
Putting aside his Jeter-like intangibles, which starting quarterbacks in the league would you prefer Tebow over?
Every Cardinals quarterback after Kurt Warner. (I'm afraid the Cards might sign him, just to put asses in the seats.)
posted by Bozemanite at 11:06 AM on May 14, 2013
As a Heisman winner from a Florida university, he's in extremely appropriate company in terms of his potential to be a dynamic starting NFL quarterback.
posted by beaverboard at 11:28 AM on May 14, 2013
beaverboard: "Somebody should have been able to stop that Tebow-led unit."
I recall a declining team and coach who lost to appalachian state in 07 did just that in a Bowl game played in the state of FL.
posted by bo_fan at 01:01 PM on May 14, 2013
I am not sold: one-half season of fourth-quarter comebacks should not have been enough for Woody Johnson (blame should go to him; I don't believe this was Rex Ryan's idea) to go after Tebow. Still, some club will sign him; hopefully he'll get a chance to become a legitimate starter ... I don't believe he had that chance in Denver; Peyton's signing cut that time short.