12/03/24
June 06, 2011
SportsFilter: The Monday Huddle:
A place to discuss the sports stories that aren't making news, share links that aren't quite front-page material, and diagram plays on your hand. Remember to count to five Mississippi before commenting in anger.
How about a confidence pool on where Plex will be playing next season, and if you would take on chance on him.
posted by Debo270 at 09:43 AM on June 06, 2011
grum can't lose but I claim moral victory for picking the finalists.
If some math genius can explain how Spofi Average is sitting pretty in third place instead of middle of the pack then I'd appreciate that.
posted by rumple at 02:33 PM on June 06, 2011
The Sportsfilter effect - where almost all the kids are below average?
posted by kokaku at 02:52 PM on June 06, 2011
If some math genius can explain how Spofi Average is sitting pretty in third place instead of middle of the pack then I'd appreciate that.
With the system we've implemented, it's quite possible (though rare) for Spofi Average to actually be in first place!
Imagine 10 people making picks, and they rank the teams 1-10:
6 people could have 1st place right
8 people could have 2nd place right
10 people could have 3rd place right
7 people could have 4th place right
9 people could have 5th place right
6 people could have 6th place right
9 people could have 7th place right
8 people could have 8th place right
9 people could have 9th place right
10 people could have 10th place right
But it's possible that NO ONE has all of the positions right.
However, SpoFi Average would have every position correct, since the majority of the people got each position right.
Therefore, SpoFi Average would win the pool.
Something very similar almost happened in the World Cup pool, I believe. Or EuroCup. I can't remember which.
The reason SpoFi doesn't win our pool is SpoFi went strong on Washington, killing it's final 4 / final 2 hopes.
posted by grum@work at 04:43 PM on June 06, 2011
USC's 2004 championship stripped.
posted by Bonkers at 06:03 PM on June 06, 2011
Thanks grum. That makes a lot of sense, it was counter-intuitive. I don't mind the Lake Spofibegon theory but I think you may have just disproved it.
posted by rumple at 06:33 PM on June 06, 2011
USC's 2004 championship stripped.
Does that mean Oklahoma becomes champion?
posted by rumple at 06:34 PM on June 06, 2011
I think they've decided that there will be no champion for 2004.
We live in an era of vacant crowns.
posted by beaverboard at 07:07 PM on June 06, 2011
era of vacant crowns.
I think you just came up with the title for the next great doom metal album.
posted by NoMich at 07:13 PM on June 06, 2011
USC's 2004 championship stripped.
Does that mean Oklahoma becomes champion?
No, but they no longer have to admit to that 55-19 smackdown. Probably just as good.
posted by graymatters at 07:15 PM on June 06, 2011
Former Phillie Dykstra charged with grand theft auto, drug possession
Police who arrested Dykstra on April 14 found cocaine, ecstasy and the synthetic human growth hormone Somatropin at his San Fernando Valley home, the statement said.
Robison said Dykstra had not obtained a lawyer to represent him in the case.
"Of course I'm not guilty," Dykstra told the Daily News of New York on Monday. "The car got stolen all right stolen by them. I don't have it anymore. It's gone like my computer, my phone, my clothes."
posted by rumple at 07:20 PM on June 06, 2011
era of vacant crowns.
I think you just came up with the title for the next great doom metal album.
I don't know the metal sub-genres very well, but I do know that where there's a crown, there must also be a Throne.
(Caution: windmill content)
posted by beaverboard at 08:15 PM on June 06, 2011
I think you just came up with the title for the next great doom metal album.
Oh, +2, +2. Would buy again.
posted by yerfatma at 08:45 PM on June 06, 2011
Goodbye, Rome.
I'm cheering for the Canucks, but I hope he get 15 games for that.
Hopefully the Canucks won't bother give him another chance to play in the NHL when his sentence is over.
posted by grum@work at 09:34 PM on June 06, 2011
I don't know grum, Horton had his head down. Players need to defend themselves in the NHL, and Horton was accelerating into the zone without looking in the direction he was going. It was an unfortunate hit but it wasn't as dirty as Chara's hit on Pacioretty.
posted by insomnyuk at 09:42 PM on June 06, 2011
Rome didn't even make a move toward Horton until after he'd passed the puck. This is nothing other than intent to injure, and Rome should get at least a Bertuzzi sized suspension.
posted by MeatSaber at 10:01 PM on June 06, 2011
You guys are ridiculous. The Bertuzzi play was totally different. Rome tried to make a hit and unfortunately hit Horton in the head. He shouldn't have left his feet but it was a hockey play.
posted by insomnyuk at 10:22 PM on June 06, 2011
This is nothing other than intent to injure, and Rome should get at least a Bertuzzi sized suspension.
Are you serious? That was hardly comparable to grabbing somebody from behind and pile-driving their head into the ice.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 10:24 PM on June 06, 2011
Tim Thomas just bodychecked Henrik Sedin and he didn't get a penalty for that.
posted by insomnyuk at 10:25 PM on June 06, 2011
Watch the replay. Rome was watching the play while lining up Horton. He knew the puck was gone, and he had plenty of time to pull up, but instead leaves his feet and lays a shoulder into Horton's jaw. How is that not intent to injure? Granted, it's not the same as Bertuzzi on Moore, but I never said it was...I just said it deserved the same kind of punishment. If the NHL is serious about cleaning up the league, they'll do anything to eliminate hits like this...
posted by MeatSaber at 10:42 PM on June 06, 2011
I'm not quite sure what to think of that, but it sure was reminiscent of Scott Stevens in his heyday lining up the unaware as they crossed the blue line. Funny how sensibilities have changed, huh? Just over ten years ago, that was just hard nosed hockey. The fact that it even warrants a discussion now about whether he should be suspended or not shows a different mentality.
posted by tahoemoj at 11:07 PM on June 06, 2011
Shoulder to chest, and his feet come off the ice after he hits him. Horton makes himself vulnerable by admiring his pass too long. A late hit to be sure, but only a late hit, not a particularly dirty one. Run of the mill every game of the season.
Sure hope Horton is ok though.
Looking forward to seeing Julien apologize for his blowhard BS about how *his* players would never do the "Lapierre finger".
posted by rumple at 11:08 PM on June 06, 2011
Cheap ass play. No place for that in any sport. Isn't the goal in sport to beat your opponent? You aren't beating anyone if you goon someone when they are vulnerable.
Cheering for the Canucks, but also a suspension here. Of course, Chara also deserved a suspension for a similar act earlier in this year in Montreal that he didn't receive ... have no idea how the NHL applies the rules.
Agree these acts are nowhere near Matt Cooke or Todd Bertuzzi level of thug violence but they still must be punished to protect the players and game.
Or maybe it's better for ratings to see guys like Bertuzzi and Cooke play more games in a season than Crosby and Savard.
posted by cixelsyd at 11:49 PM on June 06, 2011
Horton had his head down.
His head was up, as he had already taken two strides after passing the puck. He had just started to turn his head in the direction that Rome was coming from, but the hit had already been started.
Shoulder to chest, and his feet come off the ice after he hits him.
It was shoulder to head. If he hits him in the chest, Horton doesn't fall to the ice like that. He'd go backwards and land on his ass/back, not straighten up like that. To see an example, look at the Torres hit on McQuaid at 19:26 of the 1st period.
It was a late hit with an intent to injure.
Run of the mill every game of the season.
Yeah, no. Players aren't getting knocked out every game of the season by blindside hits to the head.
Looking forward to seeing Julien apologize for his blowhard BS about how *his* players would never do the "Lapierre finger".
Agreed. It was like Lucic and the other guy misheard Julien and thought they were supposed to do it. The bare finger one was especially egregious.
posted by grum@work at 12:15 AM on June 07, 2011
If a player can make any hit "blindside" by turning their head away, then it's stupid rule. But you know, they can't: this wasn't a blindside hit - it was face-on, players moving relative to each other at 180 degrees. Horton was admiring his pass.
According to Bob McKenzie (for what its worth) the standard for a late hit is >0.5 seconds after release of puck, and this was one second. So - half a second late. Less time than it takes me to type one word. It's not egregiously late.
I've looked at it a few more times, and it does appear his shoulder hits his head, but after it hits his chest. He keeps his arms down and doesn't leave his feet until the aftershock of the hit lifts them both up.
I said above, its a late hit but not a particularly dirty one and I stand by that. It probably deserves a game or two given the shoulder does indeed contact the head. It's not egregiously late, it's not egregiously targeted to the head, it's inches away from being a hard hit as Rome stands up Horton at the blueline. I bet he gets one game suspension.
I see Lucic admits his finger-food offer was "classless". But you know, I think the players are having *fun* with the biting thing. The hacking and slashing, not so much.
posted by rumple at 12:46 AM on June 07, 2011
According to Bob McKenzie (for what its worth) the standard for a late hit is >0.5 seconds after release of puck, and this was one second. So - half a second late. Less time than it takes me to type one word. It's not egregiously late.
Or, twice as long as a normal hit.
The only hit I've seen later than that was the one Cam Janssen put on Tomas Kaberle a few years ago.
I've looked at it a few more times, and it does appear his shoulder hits his head, but after it hits his chest.
No, you're wrong about that. Unless Rome started a full foot lower than this screen capture shows (in which case he was leaping up into his chin), this was shoulder-on-chin contact from the beginning:
posted by grum@work at 08:23 AM on June 07, 2011
Everything grum said except that Julien called out Lucic for his antics. In real-time, I thought it was a clean hit (I was also about 8 beers deep). By the second or third replay, it looked pretty dirty to me. Even the Canucks home paper isn't defending it:
"So yes, it was a bad hit, and the five and a game entirely in order, and if there's a suspension to go with it, even the flintiest-hearted of Canucks fans ought to acknowledge that no one's really out to get them. The Fall of Rome, in this case, is self-inflicted."
posted by yerfatma at 08:27 AM on June 07, 2011
If Matt Cooke had "bitten a hand" or thrown that cheap shot last night, he would have been suspended before he got his shower. I understand that some people have more of a "history", but that should be a suspension for the rest of the playoff. I think he will get 2 games.
posted by Debo270 at 12:22 PM on June 07, 2011
Or, twice as long as a normal hit.
That's one way of putting it, absolute terms ("half a second") is another. But would you be saying, if a hit was 0.6 seconds late, that it was an unacceptable "20%" late. Cuz 20% is a lot of late. Absolute terms makes more sense.
Your screen grab proves nothing since Horton is already falling, look at his knees. The very fact that frame by frame analysis actually fails to conclusively show the head:shoulder time/space relationship just speaks to the speed at which it all happened. It's a fast game, don't cross the blueline with your head down, and yes, don't take a headshot even if one is offered.
Anyway, I defended Chara's hit on Pacioretty as a hockey play that went wrong, and this is a little worse than that hit. But it is nothing like the Matt Cooke headhunting. Raffi Torres hit on Eberle was worse than this. And, as I've already said, Peverley's hack on Bieksa's knee was as dirty as it comes - clear intent to injure. Not a hockey play. This was mostly a hockey play, it was a bit late and had much worse consequences than most identical plays would have. Rome deserves a game for being a bit reckless but it was not a dirty play.
posted by rumple at 01:18 PM on June 07, 2011
Your screen grab proves nothing since Horton is already falling, look at his knees.
Um. He's skating, so his knees are bent. Look at EVERYONE ELSE on the ice. Their knees are bent too. His knees are a little more bent because his upper body has stopped moving forward, while his legs keep going.
What the screen grab proves is that the shoulder hit him in the head, not the chest.
But would you be saying, if a hit was 0.6 seconds late, that it was an unacceptable "20%" late. Cuz 20% is a lot of late. Absolute terms makes more sense.
Late is late. If 0.5 seconds is considered acceptable, then anything after that is late. The fact that it was twice as long as "acceptable" is pretty important.
But it is nothing like the Matt Cooke headhunting.
Agreed. Matt Cooke was predatory, while Rome is simply dangerous. Neither of them should be allowed, and I'm hoping that Shanahan will implement a clear standard of "head shots" being punishable at all times. There simply isn't any reason that Rome had to hit him in the head. If he wanted to hit him, throw the hip into him, or go shoulder-to-shoulder and spin him like a top.
According to the NHL, Rome got 4 games (rest of playoffs). That seems fair (if you believe in the standard 1 playoff game = 2 to 3 regular season games).
posted by grum@work at 02:43 PM on June 07, 2011
Commented prior to your post, grum, in today's huddle.
Basically the league does not classify it a head shot, but as a late hit. No argument there.
posted by rumple at 02:50 PM on June 07, 2011
Granted, it's not the same as Bertuzzi on Moore, but I never said it was...I just said it deserved the same kind of punishment.
It being deserving of the same kind of punishment implies that it is the same (or very similar) action.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:20 PM on June 07, 2011
It being deserving of the same kind of punishment implies that it is the same (or very similar) action.
You can get 2 years for a weapons charge, or two years for embezzlement, but they aren't the same...
posted by MeatSaber at 07:13 PM on June 07, 2011
The 2011 SpoFi NHL Playoofs Confidence Pool standings have been updated through game 2 of the SCF.