11/05/24
December 07, 2010
Patriots Embarrass Jets 45-3: Tom Brady threw four touchdown passes as the New England Patriots pulverized the New York Jets 45-3 at home on Monday, improving to 10-2 and moving atop the AFC East. "This humble pie tastes like a car tire and it goes down like peanut butter," said Jets defensive tackle Sione Pouha.
Throw in there that Sanchez played his best game of the year when the Jets beat the Pats and his worst game of the year last night (see CHFF's analysis). The Pats are strong, but even (or maybe especially) as a fan, I don't think they're as strong as last night's victory indicates. No doubts about their O - I want to believe that their D has turned the corner, but I'll wait and see what they do against Chicago and GB
posted by kokaku at 10:51 AM on December 07, 2010
Only beating teams with losing records and having to come from behind to do it.
I think this argument is weak. They beat the Patriots once and have victories over several other teams that have been good in recent years.
posted by rcade at 11:06 AM on December 07, 2010
I guess it's always better to eat your own humble pie than have someone force-feed it to you. Up to the Jets what they do with this.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:12 AM on December 07, 2010
Being good in recent years isn't really a valid measure of this year's opposition. The Jets are 1-3 against teams with winning records, and that one victory was Sanchez's best game of the season. They're going to the playoffs but they're probably not as good as their 9-3 record. Football Outsider's puts their estimated wins at 7 which sounds about right - their record is above their ability.
posted by kokaku at 11:19 AM on December 07, 2010
That was definitely not the game I was expecting. It did feel like the Pats were trying to run up the score a bit to really stick it to the Jets. I remember at what point after the game was long since out of hand, the Pats went for it on 4th down (and, of course, got it). I completely endorse that behavior in divisional games.
They're going to the playoffs but they're probably not as good as their 9-3 record.
I think they are exactly as good as their 9-3 record since they have nine wins and three losses.
posted by bperk at 11:32 AM on December 07, 2010
...and Woodhead leads the game in receiving. I wonder how the combo of "dem apples" and humble pie tastes to Mr. Ryan today?
posted by slackerman at 11:49 AM on December 07, 2010
It did feel like the Pats were trying to run up the score a bit to really stick it to the Jets.
I may be alone in this, but I've always felt that comments about running up the score belong in Pop Warner and high school football, not the pros. Points are one of the tiebreakers when deciding playoff slots and seeds. While the Pats almost certainly are playoff-bound, they haven't secured first seed, and other teams are still in a position where they can match the Pats' win-loss record.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:14 PM on December 07, 2010
and Woodhead leads the game in receiving
Santonio Holmes did lead the game in post reception celebrations ...
Sanchez fell apart, but his receivers didn't help much when the game was within reach. Edwards looks like he has no idea how to run a crossing pattern ... do the Jets actually have a receivers coach?
posted by cixelsyd at 12:33 PM on December 07, 2010
I normally think that running up the score is bad form even in the NFL, particularly where it seems that teams are running up the score to pad individual or team stats. However, I had no issue with the Patriots passing later in the game and going for touchdowns considering how much trash was being talked by the Jets and their coach in the 10 days leading up to the game.
posted by holden at 12:52 PM on December 07, 2010
It was priceless when they went for it in the 4th quarter on 4th and inches inside the red-zone while up by 35 points.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 01:05 PM on December 07, 2010
Stop with the "running up the score" stuff. These are pro football players/teams, not middle school, high school or college kids. If they want to run up the score, have at it. The Jets (in this instance) have the opportunity twice per year to return the favor.
As for the Jets, regardless of record they've been a bit of a disappointment (even before the embarrassment that was last night). Their defense hasn't been stout like many expected it to be, and the offense appears clueless. I really don't know what you can attribute it to. Some of the passes Sanchez threw last night were horrible, and at this point in the season (realizing Holmes missed some games), they should have a better chemistry. I really wish they would have devoted more playing time throughout the year to Shonn Greene, not Tomlinson, and it has nothing to do with me not liking Tomlinson, or the fact his numbers (at least earlier in the year) were good. He played really well in the playoffs last year, and looked to be the future for their running game, but instead they go with the aging LT.
None of this takes away from NE, though. Everyone contributes, and they look to be gaining steam as the regular season ends.
posted by dyams at 01:24 PM on December 07, 2010
It was priceless when they went for it in the 4th quarter on 4th and inches inside the red-zone while up by 35 points.
That's exactly what I was talking about. They were really trying to humiliate them.
Stop with the "running up the score" stuff.
Nope. New England was clearly trying to make a statement, and weren't content just to win this game. I didn't criticize it; I just pointed it out.
posted by bperk at 02:05 PM on December 07, 2010
The Jets also screwed up mightily in the field position management department. More than once, the offense took the field with very good field position which they couldn't take advantage of, and there was some abysmal punting as well.
The Woodhead success story is very satisfying in light of all the NE players that have jumped ship and gone to the Jets over the years. Nice to see the flow reversed once in a while.
posted by beaverboard at 02:16 PM on December 07, 2010
Stop with the "running up the score" stuff
Think of it as the Patriots of letting their play do their talking. Really, the Jets are a division opponent who they are fighting for playoff positioning against and may see again this season - you don't take your foot off the gas in a situation like that. You don't want to give them any confidence or feeling that they have the slightest chance if you meet again.
posted by cixelsyd at 02:19 PM on December 07, 2010
I heard that the Jets are confused as to all this talk about them losing on Monday Night Football. Their schedule says that they are supposed to play the Pats tonight on Tuesday Night Football and weren't planning to fly up until this morning. They are scheduled to land at TF Green Airport in Providence around 3:00pm today.
posted by Demophon at 02:19 PM on December 07, 2010
I was watching last night, waiting for the other shoe to drop in the form of a Patriots second-half struggle. After the 3rd quarter, I realized that the other shoe wouldn't drop; it was firmly embedded in the backside of the Jets. It wasn't a case of the Jets being pretenders or the Patriots being much the better team. It was mostly that Patriots were sharp, New York came out a bit flat, there were some questionable coaching decisions on the part of Ryan and his assistants, and Belichick managed to neutralize the Jets defense by staying away from the best part of it and exploiting a weakness in the secondary. Simply enough, New England had a good game plan and executed it well, while New York's game plan did not sufficiently play to New England's weaknesses and was not well-executed. These 2 teams have now played each other 103 times, and the result is 51-51-1. As a Pats' fan, I never take the Jets lightly.
posted by Howard_T at 02:34 PM on December 07, 2010
That's exactly what I was talking about. They were really trying to humiliate them.
But if they kick the field goal in that situation, wouldn't that be cited as an example of running up the score?
posted by rcade at 03:06 PM on December 07, 2010
Belichick's message to his team at the beginning of the 4th quarter is clear that they didn't really try to just run the clock out:
posted by bperk at 04:07 PM on December 07, 2010
Nope. New England was clearly trying to make a statement, and weren't content just to win this game. I didn't criticize it; I just pointed it out.
Did you read what I wrote about tiebreakers?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:27 PM on December 07, 2010
He probably just read something along these lines and realized even Bill Belichick wouldn't use as remote a possibility as the necessity of point differential as an excuse for running up the score on an opponent.
He just wanted to kick the shit out of the Jets, and there's nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact, I bet on him doing it.
posted by wfrazerjr at 05:16 PM on December 07, 2010
I love that Belichick quote. What better way to cultivate a killer instinct in your team, which could pay dividends the rest of the season?
Last season I argued the other side of the blowout sportsmanship question when Brad Childress and Brett Favre beat the Cowboys up and took their lunch money.
I think I prefer this side better. Even though Childress was eventually punished by the football gods.
posted by rcade at 05:22 PM on December 07, 2010
My point is just that, unlike in Pop Warner, in the NFL there's a benefit beyond bragging rights to score as many points as possible.
(and we're dealing with grownups)
posted by lil_brown_bat at 05:50 PM on December 07, 2010
I guess. Still not very sporting though. I mean, it's one thing to do it because of the tie-breaker rule - but does any part of this look/sound/feel like that's what they were doing? I think Belichick's (alleged) quote kind of let the cat out of the bag on that one.
Well, that and they've famously done it before.
Can't help but think there was a lost opportunity to be both the better team and show better professionalism there.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 05:59 PM on December 07, 2010
Maybe it's just the fact Belichick is sick (like many of us) of hearing all the Jets hype that has been forced down our throats since last year and wants to prove the Pats are still the team to reckon with in the AFC/AFC East.
posted by dyams at 06:21 PM on December 07, 2010
Personally I can't fathom anybody claiming a team runs up the score. That is exactly what they are supposed to do. Not scoring as much as possible to secure the victory is to me the same as shaving points. If a team is two touchdowns better than another and decides to just win by three, wouldn't that sort of be point shaving. Win the game but make sure not to cover the spread? That would look very suspicious.
If the Jets have a problem with how many points the Pats scored, maybe they should have just played some defense. The object of every offense is to score points or in the last part of a game maintain possession and run out the clock while ahead. New England did nothing to prolong the game, they just kept possession by making first downs. Of course if the Jets won't stop them then so be it. On the other hand the defense's job is to prevent a team from scoring.
Gee should a player drop balls on purpose, should a team try not to keep moving the ball to make the other team feel better? The run up the score argument is really not valid for pro ball. Frankly if I were Bellichek I might have at some point given my back ups a chance to play in the fourth quarter not out of some mercy but to better prepare those players for the time when they might be needed. If I did put them in I would have expected them to do their best to prove they could move the ball and score also. Or on the defensive side of the ball, prove they can stop the Jets offense. In any case second guessing arguably the best coach in football seems silly. His record of winning with almost any personnel he has speaks for itself.
Also, if we are going to worry about the Jets self esteem, wouldn't playing second and third string players for a quarter or two just add additional insult to the win as much as continuing to score does?
posted by Atheist at 06:48 PM on December 07, 2010
You don't want to give them any confidence or feeling that they have the slightest chance if you meet again.
This. And this:
But if they kick the field goal in that situation, wouldn't that be cited as an example of running up the score?
The field goal would have been the easy choice, and statistically the more sure fire way of putting points on the board.
As for me - I've got two young kids and sleep is a premium these days, so it's rare that I get to see the end of a game, any game. But I stayed up til the score was 44-3 (didn't bother to watch the extra point), cuz up til then I knew there was always the chance that the Jets could put a couple quick scores on the board - which would not only make things more interesting with ~10 minutes left in the game, but also give the Jets the aforementioned confidence that, coupled with the ass-whooping they put on the Pats earlier in the season, could spell trouble for the team heading into the post season.
posted by MW12 at 08:25 PM on December 07, 2010
Some thoughts from a lifelong Jets fan.
As far as running up the score, it's a non-issue. It's a 60 minute game. If the Jets don't like that, then stop them on defense. Period.
I'm actually glad, in a way. I hope it motivates them. This is a humbling loss. An ass-kicking. Now we will see what Ryan and the team are capable of.
Back in '86, the 10-1 Jets lost to the Dolphins 45-3. They did not win another regular season game and backed into the playoffs at 10-6. This loss seems very similar to me. I would not be surprised if they did not win another game this season. And those who point out their last minute wins against weak teams have a point.
OTOH, if they win next week, then this was just one bad loss.
But for right now, it's a humbling ass-kicking. Something every one of my friends in Boston wants to make clear to me. Over and over again.
posted by cjets at 10:36 PM on December 07, 2010
Still not very sporting though
Nuts to that. Rex Ryan has spent every spare minute this season in front of a microphone talking about how the Jets are the new kings of the division. Don't do that. Some day the Patriots will be old and grey and ready to be toppled. Until then, "money talks and bullshit brothers run a marathon". And I don't know if this game will be a wake-up call for Darrelle Revis— apparently he doesn't need one:
"I did my job. I executed what the coaches wanted me to do," said Revis. "I didn't get no balls thrown to me tonight. You saw the game. It has nothing to do with me. I'm one piece of the puzzle to this team, and if the coach tells me to go play center I'm a go play center. I mean that's just what it is. I tried to execute my job the best way I can."Not sure the J-E-T-S get it just yet.
posted by yerfatma at 09:27 AM on December 08, 2010
Yeah, that pretty-much sums up the Jets defense: Revis takes away one guy, but the others become what you have to worry about. That stuff doesn't play in most cases versus New England, a team that spreads the ball around with everyone getting involved.
Sounds to me Revis is getting annoyed with the lack of production/performance from his teammates.
Gee, everything sounded so great during the past summer's HBO training camp series. Ryan seemed convinced all they needed to do was get Revis in and their ticket to the Super Bowl was punched.
Not quite.
posted by dyams at 10:23 AM on December 08, 2010
Can't help but think there was a lost opportunity to be both the better team and show better professionalism there.
Well, that's one way of looking at it. On the other hand, if the playoff picture did come down to a tiebreaker with points scored as a determinant (not at all farfetched this season), wouldn't you feel like the biggest ass in all creation if you were the coach that gave that advantage away -- so that a bunch of people who hate your guts anyway might, possibly, momentarily have a slightly better opinion of you? And wouldn't every sports pundit and wannabee be calling you out as the idiot coach who let off the gas when there was still something of real value at stake? It's like a running back who cuts the throttle and showboats at the ten yard line: he thinks he can't be caught..and sometimes he's wrong.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:27 AM on December 08, 2010
Sounds to me Revis is getting annoyed with the lack of production/performance from his teammates.
I thought Cromartie was going to pull more weight than he has.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 11:58 AM on December 08, 2010
Well, that's one way of looking at it. On the other hand, if the playoff picture did come down to a tiebreaker with points scored as a determinant (not at all farfetched this season),
You keep pushing this scoring points tiebreaker and it just isn't at all believable or likely. Fraze's link has the factor of points as the 7th possible tiebreak. And, even then it is combined points (scored and allowed) within the division. This was a divisional game against a team that has already beat the Pats this season, and talks way too much shit.
posted by bperk at 12:37 PM on December 08, 2010
If Dennis Green had anything to say about the Jets, he might have said, "But they weren't who they thought they were."
...and that's as far as I'll go toward rubbing it in, cjets. It was a bad loss for the Jets, nothing more. The lopsided score was the result of falling far behind early and having a number of factors (weather, personnel losses, and a team not designed to make up ground late) work against you. Murphy's law applied, and if you want a cliche, it was a 'Perfect Storm'. I believe that Rex Ryan is enough of a coach to get his team past this, and if he can't, then he is not that much of a coach. We'll see.
posted by Howard_T at 01:51 PM on December 08, 2010
You keep pushing this scoring points tiebreaker and it just isn't at all believable or likely. Fraze's link has the factor of points as the 7th possible tiebreak. And, even then it is combined points (scored and allowed) within the division.
I wasn't thinking about a divisional tiebreaker, but a conference tiebreaker -- I thought I made that clear. I think the Pats will win the division free and clear, but I'm not so sure that there won't be another AFC team with an identical win-loss record (although the most likely teams to do that, the Steelers and the Ravens, both lose the head-to-head tiebreaker). I didn't bother to sit down and scrutinize all the likely playoff scenarios and calculate the precise probability of points becoming a factor. My point was only -- third time now -- that it is a factor that can affect playoff slots and seeding in the grown-up game called NFL football.
(btw, have a look at the net points column. Interesting...)
posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:38 PM on December 08, 2010
It's like the 7th place tie-breaker. Has it ever been used before?
posted by yerfatma at 08:28 AM on December 09, 2010
It's like the 7th place tie-breaker. Has it ever been used before?
I don't know, but I confess that I love all the weird "if this team beats that team and the other team loses to this fourth team, and it's Tuesday and Mars is in retrograde, this fifth team gets the sixth seed" crap.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:38 PM on December 09, 2010
The Jets are exposed as the pretender they are. Only beating teams with losing records and having to come from behind to do it. The difference in coaching and the QB position was really evident last night. I loved the expression on Rex Ryan's face during the game like he couldn't believe what he was seeing. I also wonder if he regrets letting Woodhead go. During the hard knocks show, I remember him making fun at Woodheads size.