12/21/24
November 30, 2010
Manning Throws 2 Chargers Touchdowns in Loss: Peyton Manning threw four interceptions -- two returned for touchdowns -- as the Indianapolis Colts lost 36-14 to the San Diego Chargers Sunday. Manning has thrown seven picks in two games, the most over that span in his career. "Here is the problem with Peyton Manning," writes Indianapolis Star columnist Bob Kravitz, "It's the 10 other offensive guys sharing the field."
Why is Manning so quick to get a "pass" (stupid, I know) for his play, based on who he has on the field with him this year, when Tom Brady is playing good and winning games in New England with a less-than-stellar cast on his side of the ball? Really, who does Brady have? BenJarvis Green-Ellis? He's playing good at RB, but he's not a world beater. He's got Welker at WR, coming off a huge injury. He has two young TEs nobody really heard of (in the NFL) until this year. But Manning has nothing but excuses hurled his way when he has crappy games. I realize he's the Golden Child of the league (and practically every product that advertises on television), but come on.
posted by dyams at 08:38 AM on November 30, 2010
I say this as a Pats fan and a Manning hater: Peyton is throwing to third-string guys, guys he had 0 reps with before the season. And he's doing it with no running game, which is probably the biggest problem. Teams know they need to pass to win, so they can stay in pass protection.
Tom Brady's situation is not the same: he has two familiar guys, Welker and Branch, as his wideouts, a decent second year receiver in Brandon Tate, a good pass-catching back in Woodhead and a decent running game to keep defenses honest. Describing the two rookie tight ends as players no one had heard of in the NFL is silly; all rookies are players no one had heard of. Gronkowski was a first round pick and Hernandez would have been the same (maybe even picked higher) if he hadn't committed the unpardonable sin of getting high and getting caught.
posted by yerfatma at 08:45 AM on November 30, 2010
1) Philip Rivers deserves more credit than he is getting.
More credit than he is getting? They keep talking him up as the best QB in the NFL and a top MVP candidate. I think he gets far too much credit considering the number of wins the team has.
There should be a way to place an error on the wide receiver for an interception when needed. Santana Moss let a McNabb pass bounce off his chest and ricochet into a defender's arm. That is an interception on McNabb?
posted by bperk at 09:20 AM on November 30, 2010
Also, Brady has an offensive line. Manning's line was getting pushed around more than the mosh pit at a Salt n'Pepa concert.
posted by kokaku at 09:54 AM on November 30, 2010
So Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, Donald Brown (first round pick), Tamme (who has proven to be a competent receiving option at TE), aren't capable? OK.
Forgive me, but I just don't understand why it's always Manning who wins games for the Colts, but everyone else (or the lack of anyone else) when they lose a game. And I like Manning. But other teams are and have been in this type of situation, season after season, not having fantastic line play and a lack of pro bowl talent around them. Now is Peytons time.
posted by dyams at 10:13 AM on November 30, 2010
The football equivalent of believing that someone's shit doesn't stink is believing that when a quarterback throws a pick, someone else is always to blame. Manning is indeed the golden boy.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:24 AM on November 30, 2010
Manning is most successful in a scripted, highly structured game environment. The environment is demanding. It's like playing laboratory ball. Not all replacements can step in and do well in the absence of injured starters.
Continuing with yesterday's God theme, this is payback for Dungy smugly saying on camera before the Super Bowl that the game would be "not even close" (IOW a Colts runaway win). Diss the Saints and see what happens.
The Pats have a heartier, greater than the sum of the parts team environment. Case in point: Alge Crumpler. Don't look for him on the stat sheet, but he's a great addition in a lot of other ways.
It is annoying that the Chargers keep doing just well enough to guarantee Turner's job security.
Given the state of the Colts' division, this should be the year that the Texans finally reach the postseason. Their fans must be disappointed with the way things have gone thus far.
posted by beaverboard at 10:29 AM on November 30, 2010
There should be a way to place an error on the wide receiver for an interception when needed
Agree with that, interceptions that are the receiver's fault should be noted as such.
As to Manning, I think he has a good enough supporting cast that he can't escape blame for how the Colt's season is going. All teams suffer injuries, and a QB has to deal with it. On the plus side, maybe if the Colts have an awful year we won't have to see Peyton's mug everytime we turn on the TV.
posted by dviking at 10:56 AM on November 30, 2010
Some players have been so good for so long that it is hard to believe that they forgot how to play football. Manning is one of them. Chris Johnson had 7 carries for 5 yards this week. Do you really think it was him or do you think it was him just playing poorly?
posted by bperk at 11:16 AM on November 30, 2010
It is annoying that the Chargers keep doing just well enough to guarantee Turner's job security.
Not from the perspective of fans of the other 31 teams. All that talent should have done more over the last decade.
posted by yerfatma at 11:18 AM on November 30, 2010
Are we just reacting off the last two games? I hadn't seen Manning play this year so I looked up his stats and they still look pretty good for the year. Certainly better than any year from Steve Deberg.
posted by tron7 at 11:40 AM on November 30, 2010
Are we just reacting off the last two games? I hadn't seen Manning play this year so I looked up his stats and they still look pretty good for the year.
I dunno. I've noticed that Manning (and other QBs as well) have had some pretty hefty stats in games that they lost. Except as concerns my fantasy football team, I'm viewing QB stats with a jaundiced eye.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:21 PM on November 30, 2010
This whole discussion dovetails nicely with the post from a week or two ago regarding Manning's approach. Considering the way Manning calls plays and relies on his receivers and line to be on board with the somewhat impromptu nature of it, it is not surprising that he is struggling with rotating personnel. Perhaps if the Colts had a more traditional offense, it would be easier to plug new players into the system. The Colts certainly have had no problems plugging in a new player here and there over the Manning era, but perhaps there are just too many positions being filled by second or third choices to make it work. Losing Collie for a stretch has certainly hurt, Tamme is not as effective a blocker or route runner/pass catcher as Clark, and Addai is a big loss to the passing game (both for purposes of blocking and catching balls out of the backfield). Factor in Garcon's growing pains and Wayne's declining skills, and that is a lot to overcome.
But Manning is not and should not be above criticism. Whereas the article linked above (from the prior front page post) suggested that "probably 80%" of Peyton's INTs resulted from receivers running the wrong routes, most of the ones I saw from the NE and SD games did not fit in that category -- although Peyton was hit during his throw on at least two of them and the second one returned for a TD by SD was the result of defensive pass interference on the intended target (Wayne) that was not flagged.
posted by holden at 01:36 PM on November 30, 2010
I've noticed that Manning (and other QBs as well) have had some pretty hefty stats in games that they lost.
Seems like Kyle Orton throws for a ton of yards every time the Broncos lose.
posted by beaverboard at 03:42 PM on November 30, 2010
From a fantasy football standpoint, I look for QB's that will be playing from behind (insert your own pun) as they're more likely to be throwing more often. So, losing QB's do tend put up some good stat's. Garbage time points count just the same as that well orchestrated drive in the 1st quarter!
posted by dviking at 03:48 PM on November 30, 2010
All 3 of the Manning interceptions vs New England were squarely the fault of the quarterback. (I wasn't really watching Colts vs Chargers, although it was on the TV) In the first interception, Manning was under some moderate pressure with the pocket collapsing toward him. He threw high and the defender made a play. In the second interception, Manning was badly fooled by the defensive disguise. NE lined up in what looked like cover 2, and shifted at the snap to cover 4. The receiver (correctly) read cover 4 and came back into an open area, but Manning read cover 2, and the pass was thrown right to the defender. The third interception was the product of trying to throw under pressure. Manning was brushed by the defender, but instead of throwing the ball away and settling for a game-tying field goal, he got greedy and threw toward his intended receiver. Granted, the NE defensive back made a really good play, but wouldn't have had the opportunity had Manning really understood the situation. In short, don't blame the receivers, offensive line, or the coaching. At least in this one game, Manning was unable to adapt his game to the team's situation.
posted by Howard_T at 03:55 PM on November 30, 2010
So, losing QB's do tend put up some good stat's. Garbage time points count just the same as that well orchestrated drive in the 1st quarter!
That is exactly why I am a proud Kyle Orton owner in two leagues.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:00 PM on November 30, 2010
And I, Fitzpatrick. Though I also have Vick because the fool that drafted him dropped him the week he injured his ribs, couldn't pass it up
posted by dviking at 07:45 PM on November 30, 2010
All's fair in fantasy football.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:40 PM on November 30, 2010
I've noticed that Manning (and other QBs as well) have had some pretty hefty stats in games that they lost.
Thats because they tend to be playing from behind and have to abandon the run
posted by Debo270 at 11:50 AM on December 01, 2010
Here's what we learned Sunday night:
1) Philip Rivers deserves more credit than he is getting.
2) Norv Turner is not as stupid as I thought he was.
3) Peyton Manning without his normal surrounding talents is Steve DeBerg.