11/05/24
October 10, 2010
Deadspin: Two Women Claim Lewd Favre Texts: Two massage therapists who did work for the New York Jets say they received sexual texts from quarterback Brett Favre while he played for the team, the sports blog Deadspin claims. "First, they want to talk to the NFL and the Jets," writes site editor A.J. Daulerio. "They gave me permission to pass along their info to the team, which I did." Favre's alleged actions towards team reporter Jenn Sterger are "actionable under the law," writes Clay Travis, an attorney who has investigated sexual harassment claims.
I change my mind. I'm glad he's back.
posted by justgary at 10:04 PM on October 10, 2010
So.. when did hitting a someone become illegal? I know he's married but still.
Looks like there won't be a happy ending.
/Just saying
posted by BornIcon at 07:18 AM on October 11, 2010
I have to wonder why an NFL team (ANY NFL team) would hire female masseues instead of males. Is that not asking for just the kind of thing that allegedly happened? And I'll bet more guys than just Favre did their share of "extra" massage activity as well.
posted by wildbill1 at 07:19 AM on October 11, 2010
So.. when did hitting a someone become illegal?
When you are in a position of power over them in a workplace and the interaction makes them uncomfortable.
posted by rcade at 07:48 AM on October 11, 2010
When you are in a position of power over them in a workplace and the interaction makes them uncomfortable.
Brett did apologize although apologizing via text wasn't good enough for her husband.
posted by BornIcon at 08:08 AM on October 11, 2010
I have to wonder why an NFL team (ANY NFL team) would hire female masseues instead of males. Is that not asking for just the kind of thing that allegedly happened?
If you hire a "masseuse", perhaps. The correct term to describe what these people were doing is "massage therapist", and it's no more "asking for" a problem than using a female doctor, something that happens often enough.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:49 AM on October 11, 2010
Brett did apologize although apologizing via text wasn't good enough for her husband.
In much of society this type of interaction (quitting your job, breaking up, apologizing for hitting on someone's wife) texting is frowned upon, unless you're 14.
posted by justgary at 12:37 PM on October 11, 2010
Now, before anybody jumps all over me, I have stated in the first thread on this subject that if Favre did, in fact, send all of those texts/photos he's a cad and ought to pay a price for it. I'm sure he'll pay a price at home, probably with the NFL, not sure about with the law.
From the links it appears that both the massage therapists and the reporter were contract workers, not Jets employees, and as such different rules apply for the harrassment cases. If we have heard all of the calls, I doubt there's much grounds for a legal case...he wasn't in a power position (insert your own jokes here) due to the contract worker status, and he appears to have stopped fairly quickly once he found out they weren't interested.
Fools and their cell phones...
posted by dviking at 01:21 PM on October 11, 2010
... he wasn't in a power position (insert your own jokes here) due to the contract worker status ...
We already went round and round on this point during the Ines Sainz discussion. Sexual harassment is actionable even if the target of the unwanted attention is not an employee.
posted by rcade at 02:15 PM on October 11, 2010
Every time I hear about something untoward with a massage therapist or masseuse, it reminds me of this...
posted by MeatSaber at 03:02 PM on October 11, 2010
In much of society this type of interaction (quitting your job, breaking up, apologizing for hitting on someone's wife) texting is frowned upon, unless you're 14.
Nonsense. As far as quitting your job or breaking up with someone, I can agree with that but why should Brett verbally apologize to the husband? Did he hit on him too?
Apparently when she told him that she was married, he apologized. End of story.
Also, instead of going to the proper authorities if she truly felt harassed, they go to Deadspin and the Post? Sounds like someones seeking a pay day more than an apology.
posted by BornIcon at 03:29 PM on October 11, 2010
... why should Brett verbally apologize to the husband?
Why not? If Favre had to squirm a little because the husband took offense, maybe that big ol' kid learned something.
Also, instead of going to the proper authorities if she truly felt harassed, they go to Deadspin and the Post? Sounds like someones seeking a pay day more than an apology.
They didn't talk to anyone in the press until someone else's harassment was publicized. How does that suggest they now want a payday? They could have pursued a suit right after it happened.
posted by rcade at 03:40 PM on October 11, 2010
Nonsense. As far as quitting your job or breaking up with someone, I can agree with that but why should Brett verbally apologize to the husband? Did he hit on him too?
No, he hit on his wife.
What stops Favre from picking up the phone and explaining he had no idea she was married? He was either scared, or it wasn't important enough to actually talk to the guy.
Apologizing by text message is chicken shit. I understand why he did it, but it's gutless. Anything important shouldn't be done by text message, again, unless you're a kid or scared. With Favre, it's probably a little of both.
Apparently when she told him that she was married, he apologized.
I'm sure he was genuinely sorry as well and not trying to cover his ass too.
End of story.
Obviously it's not, since the story is still breaking and we don't know the full details. I realize you're 100 percent on the athletes side, and you're behind Favre 100 percent. You believe his word without question. But I'll wait to hear if there's more to the story.
posted by justgary at 03:46 PM on October 11, 2010
..it wasn't important enough to actually talk to the guy.
I'll go with that.
Apologizing by text message is chicken shit. I understand why he did it, but it's gutless.
Why? If he hit on her via text, why not apologize the same way?
I realize you're 100 percent on the athletes side, and you're behind Favre 100 percent. You believe his word without question.
Dude, really?! That's getting real old and played out.
I rather give people the benefit of the doubt, regardless if it's an athlete or not unlike some people. Call it what you will but I rather wait until the full details of the story is out before the witch hunt.
I just don't think this is that big of a deal considering that no one called the police like what happened with Ben Roethlisberger and this happened about 2 years ago.
Convenient that this broke the day the Vikings are playing the Jets.
posted by BornIcon at 04:02 PM on October 11, 2010
Sexual harassment is actionable even if the target of the unwanted attention is not an employee
Well, yes and no. I can most certainly text a woman that is a contract worker for my company and ask her out...I can that as long as I want, until she tells me to stop. It does appear that he stopped, and her own attorney told her no action was warranted. My company could still can my ass, but it isn't actionable in a court...at least not based on what we know now.
posted by dviking at 04:10 PM on October 11, 2010
You're shifting the argument, dviking. Your original premise was that Favre wasn't in a position of power due to the contract worker status. I agree with you that the circumstances do not suggest they have a strong case, but they're not pursuing one at this point. They just want to talk to the NFL about his behavior.
posted by rcade at 04:19 PM on October 11, 2010
Why? If he hit on her via text, why not apologize the same way?
I already said why (and your logic is baffling). If I hit on someone's wife, or sent her pictures, I'd at least call, or try. But obviously Favre didn't see it as a big deal, and neither do you. I do find it a big deal (as a personal matter). We should probably leave it at that.
Dude, really?! That's getting real old and played out.
I rather give people the benefit of the doubt, regardless if it's an athlete or not unlike some people. Call it what you will but I rather wait until the full details of the story is out before the witch hunt.
If that was your attitude, that would be great. It's not, nor has it ever been.
I believe your response was 'end of story'. You do not wait to hear the full details. You heard Favre's supposed response, took it as truth, and immediately claimed it 'wasn't good enough for the husband'.
You so quickly back up an athlete in trouble, without question, I doubt you even realize you're doing it.
posted by justgary at 04:29 PM on October 11, 2010
Hey...I've seen some posts here about "positions of power"...you can always walk away from the things that offend you sexually or otherwise...no one needs to stand there or bend over to continue an "act" they choose not to perform or an act that's objectional or offensive.....not sayin Favre did or didn't...just sayin....
posted by wildbill1 at 05:42 PM on October 11, 2010
Does anyone else have the same questions about the timing of this whole thing that I do? The incidents allegedly happened in 2008, while Favre was with the Jets. While I do not keep up with the news from New York, I do not recall hearing anything about this at the time, nor at any time until now. Since Favre was a Jet at the time, I would be surprised if the Jets weren't being very quiet about it at the time, and possibly trying to sweep it under the rug. Now it's 2010, Favre is with Minnesota, and is preparing for a game against, you guessed it, the New York Jets. What better time to raise the issue than now? Had there been anything serious to the original 2008 charges, would not the Jets have been obligated to investigate and make a suitable report to the league? My conclusions are that either NY deliberately covered up the incidents, or they determined that the incidents were minor and did not deserve reporting. Obviously, now that the incidents might somehow help NY win a game, the news is made public. How about an investigation of the NY front office staff to see if they have violated any league rules. This is not the first time that the Jets have used some news in a timely manner to embarrass another team.
Please feel free to let me know of any other popular conspiracy theories. I'm a suspicious SOB to start with.
posted by Howard_T at 07:39 PM on October 11, 2010
wildbill1: what on earth are you talking about?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:41 PM on October 11, 2010
Obviously, now that the incidents might somehow help NY win a game, the news is made public. How about an investigation of the NY front office staff to see if they have violated any league rules.
My God, what utter bullshit. Are you a 9/11 truther as well?
Deadspin broke this story on August 4th so that kind of ruins your whole timing issue. As well as the fact that Daulerio would probably have some idea if the Jets were behind this, and would not hesitate to make that public.
I can't believe a Pats fan would have the balls to accuse the Jets of doing this. Why don't you stick to what you're good at and go back to taping our signals?
And, by the way, how about the gamesmanship of Belichick trading Moss now, so that the Jets would have to play against him again?
posted by cjets at 08:14 PM on October 11, 2010
I take it you have a thing for the team they call the Jets.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 09:40 PM on October 11, 2010
Does anyone else have the same questions about the timing of this whole thing that I do?
That's nutty. The stories been around a couple of months. The timing was decided by Deadspin. The massage therapists didn't go public until Favre's penis pictures made the news.
posted by rcade at 10:48 PM on October 11, 2010
You're shifting the argument, dviking. Your original premise was that Favre wasn't in a position of power due to the contract worker status
What am I shifting? My whole point is that what Favre has reportedly done is not actionable in a legal sense due to the contract worker status of the women. You stated that Sexual harassment is actionable even if the target of the unwanted attention is not an employee. I simply stated that I don't think that is necessarily true.
posted by dviking at 03:24 AM on October 12, 2010
Blimey.
I've been working on a short term contract basis for the last ten years (as a consultant).
Do you think that my clients were not in 'a position of power' in terms of my contract status? Think about it in relation to either getting paid for work performed or whether I would be able to get work from the same clients again.
posted by owlhouse at 04:14 AM on October 12, 2010
Did Brett Favre do anything wrong? Yeah, I think we can all do agree to that. Brett Favre is rapidly revealing himself to be even more of a douchebag than we previously knew (to the point where "bag" is not the appropriate term to hold his douchiness. Perhaps "douchesack" or "douche 55-gallon drum" correctly describe him, but don't roll off the tongue as nicely).
Did he do anything illegal? Ehhh, harder to say. My understanding of the sexual harassment issue is that it would be a civil matter, vice a criminal affair. And last I checked, it wasn't illegal to try and cheat on your wife.
Is that going to stop the NFL? I'm curious to see how that comes out. I'm also curious to see how (or even if) the NFL will continue to market him. The Vikings are 1-3, and don't look like they are going to be getting signicantly better with Favre at the helm. If Favre is still the main reason the media talks about this team (put it like this-would anyone care about Moss going to the Vikes if Jackson is the qb?), how does the league factor that in? The league's reaction to this is the interesting thing to me.
In related news, am I the only person who thinks Jenn Sterger is way cuter since she got her implants removed?
posted by Bonkers at 04:21 AM on October 12, 2010
I do find it a big deal (as a personal matter).
You're making this situation personal than being objective so your judgement on this subject is blurred.
I believe your response was 'end of story'. You do not wait to hear the full details.
If you read what I wrote (Apparently when she told him that she was married, he apologized. End of story) then you would understand that my response was to him apologizing. That has nothing to do with not waiting to hear the full details of this situation.
You so quickly back up an athlete in trouble, without question, I doubt you even realize you're doing it.
And apparently you fail to realize that it's not about me backing up an athlete, it's about wanting to hear all of the facts before I give my honest opinion on the subject and not simply taking Joe Schmo's word on it. We can only speculate about what happened or what's going to happen but unless all of the facts are given, that's all we can at this point.
If someone is at fault for any situation and all facts point that the person is guilty then that's one thing but where are the facts that says that Favre is guilty of anything?
posted by BornIcon at 07:28 AM on October 12, 2010
cjets:
I can't believe a Pats fan would have the balls to accuse the Jets of doing this. Why don't you stick to what you're good at and go back to taping our signals?
"Our" signals? You on the coaching staff now?
And, by the way, how about the gamesmanship of Belichick trading Moss now, so that the Jets would have to play against him again?
For this to constitute "gamesmanship", you'd have to come up with a plausible reason why Belichick (assuming this was his initiative) would want to trade Moss after 10/11 (when the Vikings came to the Meadowlands) but before 12/6 (when the Jets are coming to Foxboro). Absent a need to move Moss within that window, your conspiracy theory falls apart.
(but on you that black looks awesome, Mr. Pot)
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:46 AM on October 12, 2010
I believe it will come out clearly Favre did make those emails and did send the photos. But I also believe the Commissioner will not take punitive action against him because it is the first alleged discretion against him in 19 years in the league. On the other hand, I think the Commissioner will have a closed door meeting with Favre and politely but forcefully tell him what a jerk he is and how could he do what he did to diminish his legacy and the leagues'. How will this play out on the field? I think it will be a disaster. He might not want to be home with his wife right now retired but to be on the stage he is on is going to be even worse. Bad elbow, bad head equal bad results, Vikings in the playoffs, no way! He may even need a new farm when he goes back home.
posted by gfinsf at 10:09 AM on October 12, 2010
Sick of this:
"Our" signals? You on the coaching staff now?
If you're a fan of a team, if you spend money on the merchandise and the tickets and you invest your time into the game in the way the league and the franchise hopes you will, then yes, you can say "our" without some above-it-all sack of bad humour pointing out you don't draw a paycheck from said team. If you don't feel enough kinship with your team to say "our," maybe you fail as a fan.
It's ridiculous, it's overused and it's weak.
Stop it.
posted by wfrazerjr at 10:11 AM on October 12, 2010
From twitter:
If *I* was Brett Favre's lawyer my defense would be that he was making a pass at his wife and hit another woman with it. Airtight.
But man, did you see him last night? Favre was like a kid out there.
posted by justgary at 10:15 AM on October 12, 2010
But man, did you see him last night? Favre was like a kid out there.
Until he did the "recently" usual. Gunslingers slow down and lose their aim.
posted by gfinsf at 10:27 AM on October 12, 2010
Sick of this:
And I'm kind of tired of your obsessive need to manufacture opportunities to try and call me out, but I'm not getting exercised about it. If you can't read anything I write without it jacking your blood pressure, maybe you need to go elsewhere and give yourself a break. You really don't matter to me, and I'm not going to play your game.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:44 AM on October 12, 2010
I agree with wfrazerjr (and cjets). Without me and other fans investing our time and money in our teams, there is no forum for the players and coaches to be relevant (or at least to be able to make a career out of their talents). That entitles me to some measure of ownership of "my team." Furthermore, this is a forum of sports fans--what are you trying to prove, anyway?
posted by bender at 11:04 AM on October 12, 2010
I think "our team" should be avoided unless you own a piece of the team or went to that school.
Though if we win tonight in St. Pete, it will be among my greatest achievements in life.
posted by rcade at 11:23 AM on October 12, 2010
I'm with rcade. When you do it, it's stupid. When we do it, it's cool.
posted by tahoemoj at 11:29 AM on October 12, 2010
My opinion has always been that if you went to the school or you're from the area or have strong ties it's okay to say 'we'.
But there's a fine line. The guy thumping his chest and telling me how 'we' kicked your ass is where it becomes mockable.
posted by justgary at 12:05 PM on October 12, 2010
Here's a problem I have with the situation: Goodell has, if I remember rightly, more than once suspended someone before allegations were proven correct, implying that Goodell is just as interested in protecting the NFL brand (probably more) as he is in justice or punishment.
So, to me Goodell has painted himself into a corner (again) if he waits until the "investigation" is completed before acting. Why wait this time? I'm sure he can provide reasons, some even being quite rational, but in the end it still looks like favortism to most, and honestly I wonder myself.
posted by brainofdtrain at 12:07 PM on October 12, 2010
If you don't feel enough kinship with your team to say "our," maybe you fail as a fan.
I'm guessing I wouldn't mind failing your definition of a fan.
I don't really mind when people use "our team", it's just that, generally, the people I've heard refer to teams in that way, generally, aren't very fun to talk sports with. Basically, it sounds like talk radio foolishness.
posted by tron7 at 12:18 PM on October 12, 2010
My opinion has always been that if you went to the school or you're from the area or have strong ties it's okay to say 'we'.
My wife is an Ontario teacher, so her pension plan owns the Leafs.
Therefore, they are MY LEAFS (by legal definition of property rights).
"Two in a row! Two in a row! Woooo!"
posted by grum@work at 01:10 PM on October 12, 2010
our signals
Wow. Talk about the law of unintended consequences. Clearly, I did not count to five mississippi before commenting in anger. But I'm glad my use of that possessive pronoun made for such an interesting discussion.
posted by cjets at 01:31 PM on October 12, 2010
I'm guessing I wouldn't mind failing your definition of a fan.
I don't disagree, tron, and Gary's example of using the possessive to include yourself in the physical sense is a bit much even for me. But in my eyes, calling someone out for grouping themselves with the team is just as ridiculous. What's the point of being a fan if you don't identify enough with the team to include yourself in its accomplishments or failures?
And are you really a fan if you can so easily divorce yourself from the team's actions? "Fan" comes from "fanatic" (as I'm sure you know), and that's no word to apply to someone who doesn't feel enough of a connection to include themselves.
And I'm kind of tired of your obsessive need to manufacture opportunities to try and call me out, but I'm not getting exercised about it.
Obsessive? Wow -- I hope you're skipping dinner tonight, because you're already plenty full of yourself.
posted by wfrazerjr at 01:46 PM on October 12, 2010
Wow!! I know that cjets is a solid NYJ fan, but I didn't realize he'd go so far high and right at my comment. As a fan, his use of the term "our" is certainly justified. I try to avoid it just to keep away from the "your team sucks, my team is great" style of comment that is usually anathema to SpoFi. I do think that it is not the end of the world, however. 9-11 truther? Hardly, my friends. After that attack and its subsequent effect on the deployment of US forces, and working on systems that protected combat aircraft from missile fire, I was suddenly placed in a position where I was working harder than at any time previously. I would appreciate a bit less name-calling when it is related to non-sporting topics.
posted by Howard_T at 04:25 PM on October 12, 2010
Hate to interrupt this side bar, but can we get back to the original topic...
When did Jenn Sterger get her implants removed???
posted by dviking at 07:05 PM on October 12, 2010
Given that the commish is now saying this : He said he had no plans to meet with Favre, "but if it is something that would help us get to a conclusion and it is warranted, I will do so.", is it starting to look like the league isn't too worked up about this?
posted by dviking at 10:33 PM on October 12, 2010
I try to avoid it just to keep away from the "your team sucks, my team is great" style of comment
But Howard, your baseless attack on the Jets was just a more sophisticated way of doing the "your team sucks, my team is great."
I would appreciate a bit less name-calling when it is related to non-sporting topics.
Fair enough. I certainly could made my point without it.
posted by cjets at 10:34 PM on October 12, 2010
Hate to interrupt this side bar, but can we get back to the original topic...
When did Jenn Sterger get her implants removed???
posted by Bonkers at 10:42 PM on October 12, 2010
My bad, wasn't really following Jenn Sterger's career.
But, no, she isn't cuter now...less of a skank perhaps, but not cuter. (no need to judge me on that comment, the woman gets implants, does Playboy, uses the boobs to get her career started, and only then has them removed...not stellar moral fiber stuff in my book...you're 100% free to have your own opinion)
posted by dviking at 12:58 AM on October 13, 2010
But man, did you see him last night? Favre was like a kid out there
Made some nice throws, including the game winning TD .. to the wrong team, as is his legacy, and most likely reason why he was run out of the Bay (or are there more junk photos we don't know about?)
Have to wonder what is really going on in the mind of someone who sends photos of their dick to random aquaintances .... is it any better than feeding young girls alcohol and roofies, and should there not be punishment imposed?
posted by cixelsyd at 01:05 AM on October 13, 2010
uses the boobs to get her career started, and only then has them removed...not stellar moral fiber stuff in my book...
What is the moral issue in having a boob job?
posted by rcade at 01:41 AM on October 13, 2010
What is the moral issue in having a boob job?
The link (really a link in the link) has her going on about the tough decision to have them removed, and on how she made an adult decision...only to then tell her fans that if they wanted the full story to buy the latest edition of Cosmo. So, she even commercialized the removal of her implants. I have a hard time taking her mental anguish seriously when she clearly (to me) made a decision to take the low road and utilize a pumped up chest as a way to start her "journalism" career.
Personally, I'm all for breast implants, and if it helps a woman get through cancer reconstruction all the better. Just not going to take a journalist seriously if she gets the boobs done in order to jump start her career, and then, after the Playboy shoot, commercializes having them removed. Again, you are free to hold a different opinion.
posted by dviking at 02:35 AM on October 13, 2010
I've never question her moral-fiber; I've always assumed she had none.
I think she improved greatly dropping the after-market mods, but then implants are one my biggest turn-offs for a woman (nothing as much screams "vapid attention-seeking whore", with the possible exception of a tramp stamp).
On the other hand, Jenn Sterger is a purely attention-seeking creation. The implants had done their job-get her noticed. Therefore, they were expendable. I don't think it will help her career as much as she thinks, because someone keeps lying to her and telling her she's a journalist. She's not; she's a talking head there to keep males watching. She's never broken a news story, or even researched one. "Hostess" is the perfect job for her. IMHO, she's the avatar of "sports" as entertainment marketing-content free and appealing to the eyes, but not something to think about.
posted by Bonkers at 04:12 AM on October 13, 2010
We're talking about Sterger after she refused to have sex with a famous married athlete and then refused to talk publicly about the incident with a blogger who found out about it. Which one of those two things is whorelike?
Hot women are not whores because they use their looks to become TV personalities. Sterger using her breast reduction to get more publicity is a bit cheezy, but I don't think it merits a moral judgment against her. Attention whore, yes. Actual whore, not so much.
posted by rcade at 09:32 AM on October 13, 2010
Well, if she and Favre had actually gotten together, they could have made beautiful little attention whore babies together, then. Think of Paris Hilton without the moral compass.
posted by tahoemoj at 11:05 AM on October 13, 2010
For the record, I called her a skank, not a whore.
One shining moment of non-skank like behavior (if we know the entire story which I doubt we do) does not exactly change my opinion of her. Again, I'm good with anyone having different views on her.
posted by dviking at 12:14 PM on October 13, 2010
Have to wonder what is really going on in the mind of someone who sends photos of their dick to random aquaintances .... is it any better than feeding young girls alcohol and roofies, and should there not be punishment imposed?
What Favre allegedly did is stupid and wrong and he may be liable for his actions. But to compare it to date rape? Wow.
I'll answer your question with another question. What would you rather have your daughter receive? Nasty pornographic texts? Or to be drugged and raped.
posted by cjets at 01:13 PM on October 13, 2010
He missed his chance to stay gone. And now we're going to have to put up with another goddamn year of him - he'll want to play another year to try and resuscitate his reputation. What a shitheel.