11/05/24
December 25, 2009
Stan Van Gundy has a request for the NBA.: No more Christmas games. "I actually feel sorry for people who have nothing to do on Christmas Day other than watch an NBA game," the Orlando Magic coach said.
posted by mr_crash_davis to basketball at 08:07 PM - 25 comments
Honestly, my football-addicted uncle and I didn't even realize there was a football game on yesterday. Even if we had've known, we both wouldn't have thought to turn the TV on to watch it. It's one day out of 365 that, at least partially, doesn't revolve around sports for us.
posted by dfleming at 11:40 AM on December 26, 2009
I vote Suck it up, Stan: it's another reason why you guys get the big bucks. And I like watching basketball on XMas, even more than watching football on Thanksgiving (although I do that too). The NBA does a great job with their match ups.
posted by MW12 at 12:07 PM on December 26, 2009
you guys get the big bucks
Yeah, they do. However, there are ticket takers, concessionaires, security, parking lot attendants, etc. who also have to work on Christmas day instead of spending time with their families. I don't have too much sympathy for the coaches and athletes, who can afford to have their family with them wherever they go, but the blue collar folks kind of get shit upon. And something tells me time and a half on their wages doesn't quite justify it.
posted by tahoemoj at 01:16 PM on December 26, 2009
I don't think it would ultimately damage the league to take two days off, but I do understand that they're pretty much the only game in town - so it's a good day for them. I agree with Tahoe on who really pays for this though.
And I can think of a few people who work on Christmas.
As well as a few people who are quite happy to have a game to go to on Christmas.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:27 PM on December 26, 2009
One NBA game on Christmas was OK, but making 10 teams play on that day is ridiculous. The more stuff gets scheduled on the day, the less of a holiday it becomes.
posted by rcade at 03:25 PM on December 26, 2009
Yeah, they do. However, there are ticket takers, concessionaires, security, parking lot attendants, etc. who also have to work on Christmas day instead of spending time with their families.
Not everyone has family, or cares to be with them, or cares about Christmas, or is Christian, or believes in Santa Claus. I've worked several jobs that still went on during Christmas, and it was never difficult to find workers that wanted to work Christmas, simply for something to do, or the money (sometimes being paid more).
posted by justgary at 04:25 PM on December 26, 2009
Not everyone has family, or cares to be with them, or cares about Christmas, or is Christian, or believes in Santa Claus.
I personally am not Christian, nor do I believe in Santa Claus, and for many years I had no family near me. I also worked in a casino that was open on all holidays and, because I had no family, I volunteered to work. I was there with floor, restaurant, and bar staff, many of whom were very upset to be there on Christmas rather than being home with their family (or maybe off getting piss drunk somewhere, it really doesn't matter.) The simple choice was either working the hours they were assigned to work or losing their jobs to people who would work them. So I guess, yeah, it wasn't that difficult to find workers. And yes, it was their choice.
I don't really give a rats ass if you feel for the people who work on Christmas or not; I am no longer one of them. I do, however, think you ought to come up with some better argument in support of NBA games on Christmas than that they all worked of their own volition. You're either delusional or just being contrary; I'm guessing the latter. And I've never given any indication before of being a Christian. Just giving some respect and sympathy to those who are and would like a holiday off (like I'm betting you got).
posted by tahoemoj at 08:01 PM on December 26, 2009
I don't really give a rats ass if you feel for the people who work on Christmas or not; I am no longer one of them. I do, however, think you ought to come up with some better argument in support of NBA games on Christmas than that they all worked of their own volition.
I'm not sure how you took what I said as meaning that everyone that works Christmas day did so voluntarily. When you're talking about the number of employees needed for a NBA game I thought that would be kind of understood.
I am sure that many of those employees were forced to work even though they wanted to be off. That sucks, and I shed just as many internet tears as you do for them. I'm saying that the overwhelming idea that people shouldn't work on Christmas, and 'let's not visit these establishments to punish the owners' because I don't want to work on Christmas so how could they want to is a huge generalization that is a false one.
So by someone saying 'this restaurant should be closed, this NBA game shouldn't be played', that's great for some people, and it screws, and goes against the needs, of those that want to work. And just as you knew employees that were forced to work, I've known many that wanted to work, including myself.
So I'm not using the fact that some people want to work as proof an NBA game should be played. I'm saying the fact that some people don't isn't the whole story either. Someone isn't going to be happy. If anyone can use the money in these times, I bet it's the "blue collar" folks that you feel sympathy for. The athletes and coaches certainly don't.
You're either delusional or just being contrary;
Neither. I have a different opinion. Delusional though, nice.
And I've never given any indication before of being a Christian.
And nowhere did I claim you were.
(like I'm betting you got)
My job doesn't get off days. You can paypal me the money.
posted by justgary at 08:38 PM on December 26, 2009
Perhaps the tone of the discussion was set by the dismissive way in which you addressed my previous statement. You can play coy, as if you were just respectfully presenting an alternative point of view, or you can accept that your post was plenty snide before you act hurt. You took a direct quote from me and used it as a springboard for a sarcastic rebuttal. Clever. Don't act like I took it out of context when I respond.
posted by tahoemoj at 09:09 PM on December 26, 2009
or you can accept that your post was plenty snide before you act hurt.
Really? You're still going on about this line?:
Not everyone has family, or cares to be with them, or cares about Christmas, or is Christian, or believes in Santa Claus.
That wasn't sarcastic. And it wasn't about you. I have no idea what you're reading into this. I'm not hurt nor acting hurt. I explained my point further because I thought maybe I wasn't clear. And yet you're still going on as if I kicked your puppy with that one line. Let's agree to disagree or you can email me, because I have absolutely no clue what your problem with me or that comment is.
posted by justgary at 09:39 PM on December 26, 2009
Today was Boxing Day, one of the great English football days, and though it happened to fall on a Saturday, it's a full schedule if it's on a Tuesday. (This year, Monday's a full schedule too.) In Australia, the traditional Boxing Day Test began at the MCG.
But Christmas? C'mon. If there wasn't any major sporting contest, you really wouldn't miss it.
The Disney Network likes the NBA because it's too tight to spend money on decent programming, and to suggest that taking a day off picks the pocket of some random hypothetical person desperate to mop up beer puddles on Christmas afternoon is an argument as weak as stadium beer.
posted by etagloh at 12:06 AM on December 27, 2009
Waaahh-fuckin'-waaahh. Quit coaching if you want to be with your family that much. Or go coach in the WNBA - you'll get the 4th off and everything.
posted by apthomason at 01:49 AM on December 27, 2009
and to suggest that taking a day off picks the pocket of some random hypothetical person
Eh, it's no more hypothetical than the original person wishing he was off on Christmas to spend time with his family. Many people would rather be off on Christmas, many others would rather work. Some have no choice because their job doesn't take holidays. So I don't assume 'poor guy' when I see him working on Christmas. That was my point. If that makes me a scrooge, so be it.
It has little to do with Van Gundy's remark or the article, so I'll take the blame for going off topic. On topic I find Van Gundy's remark:
I actually feel sorry for people who have nothing to do on Christmas Day other than watch an NBA game
very condescending, but I'm sure it came from his own beliefs and frustration.
posted by justgary at 03:56 PM on December 27, 2009
I agree with coach. You can't find anything better to do on one day of the year that also happens to be a major holiday? And tahoe is right- 5 games makes having to work Christmas for a game a lot more incovenient for a lot more people. At the rate the NBA is going, you might as well just make it a regular season day and have everyone play.
posted by irunfromclones at 06:57 PM on December 27, 2009
You can't find anything better to do on one day of the year that also happens to be a major holiday?
If you love basketball, if nothing makes you happier than going to an NBA game, what's wrong with that? I don't understand how people judge other people's values or how they spend their time, even on holidays (maybe even holidays they don't observe).
5 games makes having to work Christmas for a game a lot more incovenient for a lot more people.
Except for people that want to work, or the people that don't care.
Seriously, am I on candid camera? Am I being punk'd?
posted by justgary at 07:03 PM on December 27, 2009
Except for people that want to work.
Realistically, what percentage of people want to work on Christmas Day, versus the percentage that want to keep one of the only days in the year when almost nobody works and restaurants and other establishments feel pressured to stay closed and let their workers off?
I'm beginning to feel punked too. Surely you can recognize that the pursuit of money is creeping further and further into Christmas and Thanksgiving, two of the only days in the year when it's possible to gather large families together because no one's working, and turning one NBA Christmas game into five of them is part of that problem. Thanksgiving already suffers from the Black Friday sales that begin at midnight, causing people to cut out early to prepare for the orgy of consumption.
posted by rcade at 07:18 PM on December 27, 2009
I'm waiting for justgary to call out David Stern's Scrooge-like refusal to run a 365-day schedule with each team playing twice a day.
posted by etagloh at 10:06 PM on December 27, 2009
Realistically, what percentage of people want to work on Christmas Day, versus the percentage that want to keep one of the only days in the year when almost nobody works and restaurants and other establishments feel pressured to stay closed and let their workers off?
The ironic part is that I love Christmas more than anyone I've ever met. It wasn't until I worked in restaurants and later hospitals that I realized how many people either don't care about Christmas or hated it. And I've yet to work a job where getting workers to work on Christmas was difficult.
Statistically I'm sure more people would rather be off on Christmas than not. I never denied that. But I don't think it's nearly the slam dunk (pun intended) that you're believing it to be. And the pressure to be closed on Christmas is much less than when I was younger. Restaurants, coffee shops, grocery stores that are open at least for a short time on Christmas day are becoming more prevalent every year.
Thanksgiving already suffers from the Black Friday sales that begin at midnight, causing people to cut out early to prepare for the orgy of consumption.
Well, we have a fundamental difference in opinion. Stores opening for black friday doesn't cause anyone to do anything. I very easily slept in on black friday. If people go it's their choice (which of course is different than being forced to work).
But getting back to what Gundy actually said, i still find it condescending. You can't open presents and then go to an NBA game? You can't go to midnight mass and then go to an NBA game? Can't bring your family to an NBA game? Can't go to an NBA game because you hate spending time with your family on Christmas?
A lot of people have a tradition of going to the movies on Christmas day. I wouldn't want to attend a movie, or go to an NBA game on Christmas. I'd rather be home. But I don't believe one is better than the other, and if they choose something different, I'm not sure why they deserve anyone's sympathy, or why Gundy feels the need to judge how they spend Christmas.
posted by justgary at 12:14 AM on December 28, 2009
Well, we have a fundamental difference in opinion. Stores opening for black friday doesn't cause anyone to do anything.
Of course. But like places that are open on Christmas, the sales peel off family members and friends who might otherwise take the whole Thanksgiving Day off together.
It wouldn't take much for Christmas and Thanksgiving to become days where most businesses in America stay open. As you said, the pressure to be closed on Christmas is going down.
Greed breaks down boundaries. Look at how football, which once had a brilliant arrangement where high schools played on Fridays, college on Saturdays and the pros on Sundays and Mondays, now has college and the NFL fighting for other days -- even stepping on high schools with some Friday games.
I'm glad Gundy complained, because five NBA games on Christmas is too much. The players and their families and team staff, as well as the people who work the venues, deserve the day off. One game on that day was special. Five is practically a regular NBA schedule.
It may be hypocritical to say this while running web sites that help distract family members on major holidays and rooting for a football team that carved out a slice of Thanksgiving for decades.
posted by rcade at 11:34 AM on December 28, 2009
It wouldn't take much for Christmas and Thanksgiving to become days where most businesses in America stay open. As you said, the pressure to be closed on Christmas is going down.
I got stuck away from home this Christmas* and I was grateful that there were restaraunts open on Christmas, albeit very few. I feel just as grateful about the NBA games that were on. I'm usually with my family during Christmas but I manage to watch at least one of the games every year.
I think Van Gundy's comments are condescending as well. He seems to think that everyone should celebrate the holidays in the exact same manner as he does.
*That blizzard that hit the flyover states got all of my path home.
posted by tron7 at 12:00 PM on December 28, 2009
He seems to think that everyone should celebrate the holidays in the exact same manner as he does.
I just didn't get that from his statements. I would say that he thinks everyone should have the same opportunity to celebrate the holidays in the manner of their choosing. And if the manner you choose steps on someone else's opportunity, that is where there is a problem.
Justgary, you feel that there are plenty of people who willingly work on Christmas and Thanksgiving. In my experience, that is a relatively small number, and most are unhappy to be there. In 15 years in the casino and nightclub business, I think I can count on one hand the number of people who wouldn't have preferred to have been somewhere else. If your experience was otherwise, fair enough, but I'd guess it was unique.
posted by tahoemoj at 12:39 PM on December 28, 2009
I just didn't get that from his statements. I would say that he thinks everyone should have the same opportunity to celebrate the holidays in the manner of their choosing.
You might be right. That thought might have been behind his statement. But I think you have to read beyond his statement and try to get in his head to come to that conclusion.
My first thought when reading "I actually feel sorry for people who have nothing to do on Christmas Day other than watch an NBA game" was what a dick thing to say. If he said "I feel sorry for people that have to work instead of spending time with their family or celebrating Christmas" I'd have no problem with it.
Of course, he's a basketball coach, not Oprah, so perhaps I was expecting too much.
posted by justgary at 02:34 PM on December 28, 2009
My first thought when reading "I actually feel sorry for people who have nothing to do on Christmas Day other than watch an NBA game" was what a dick thing to say.
I second that. We certainly agree that there was a lack of tact there.
posted by tahoemoj at 03:08 PM on December 28, 2009
Van Gundy is a douche. If he had referenced the blue collars workers who are there to serve beer and take tickets on XMas Day then the tone of the whole article and this whole conversation would be vastly different. But he didn't. He only talked about the coaches and players.
posted by MW12 at 03:16 PM on December 28, 2009
I don't blame Stan for wanting to hang out rather than go to work on Christmas Day. I think it's more than about the folks who would attend the game. I've seen lots of people who just have to have some "content" on in the background while they're doing their festive holiday thing.
A sports contest on the TV with the sound turned down low and nobody watching it is not an unusual sight in many homes during the holiday season. Kind of a sonic security blanket. If someone in a windowless room somewhere is tracking TV sports viewership, they're getting inaccurate numbers.
Maybe people in the NBA offices keep scheduling the holiday games thinking that they're going to get another 1985 Knicks-Celtics Santa Claus special. That was a wild one.