11/24/24
December 22, 2009
SportsFilter: The Tuesday Huddle:
A place to discuss the sports stories that aren't making news, share links that aren't quite front-page material, and diagram plays on your hand. Remember to count to five Mississippi before commenting in anger.
Mike Holmgren visits Cleveland for two days, then departs, whereupon the Browns suddenly produce an explosion of offensive and special teams prowess a few days later.
Now that Holmgren has decided to sign with the Browns, the Bucs and Rams are devastated. Both of them wanted to bring Holmgren in for a social call to see if just having him around would do the same thing for their teams.
posted by beaverboard at 09:07 AM on December 22, 2009
Did Holmgren visit the Giants last night?
posted by pullmyfinger at 11:01 AM on December 22, 2009
The Yankees have acquired Javier Vazquez. Not bad for a fourth starter.
posted by dfleming at 11:39 AM on December 22, 2009
Well, rah rah rah and all that good fanboy stuff for Marty Brodeur. The dude played a brilliant game against one of the league's elite teams last night to cement the record. People talk about the Devils defensive style being a major factor in his success, and rightly so, but they aren't the same defensive team that they were fifteen years ago. Last night, he made 35 saves against some incredibly skilled players, many of them at point-blank range. And what's great about him is that he does it while on his feet and in control. His ability to recover and stop rebounds is one of the many great attributes that he has that young goalies should be taught. Congrats, Marty. I'm going to wear my Brodeur jersey all day to celebrate!
posted by tahoemoj at 11:58 AM on December 22, 2009
Yeah, hats off to Brodeur. Never mind that Sawchuk set his record in the era of 50 game seasons and no masks.
posted by rumple at 12:09 PM on December 22, 2009
Yeah, hats off to Brodeur. Never mind that Sawchuk set his record in the era of 50 game seasons and no masks.
When Sawchuk started his career, NHL teams were playing 70 games per season. Still fewer than the 82 of today, but a fair shade higher than 50.
The Yankees have acquired Javier Vazquez. Not bad for a fourth starter.
I get what you're saying (and the Yankees depth chart may agree), but Vazquez is now the second-best starting pitcher on that team, after CC.
posted by holden at 12:21 PM on December 22, 2009
I get what you're saying (and the Yankees depth chart may agree), but Vazquez is now the second-best starting pitcher on that team, after CC.
If the playoffs started today, it'd be between him and Burnett as to who starts other than Sabbathia and Pettitte. It's a good problem to have.
posted by dfleming at 12:29 PM on December 22, 2009
Thoughts and prayers for all those at Chris Henry's funeral in Louisiana today, which starts in about twenty minutes.
posted by boredom_08 at 12:38 PM on December 22, 2009
If the playoffs started today, it'd be between him and Burnett as to who starts other than Sabbathia and Pettitte. It's a good problem to have.
Look, I'm no Yankee fan (and by no means a Yankee hater) and I suppose arguments can be made about Pettitte being a "proven playoff performer" (although Pettitte's career playoff stats basically mirror his career regular season stats), but Vazquez struck out almost 10 men per nine innings (9.8 K/9) and walked less than two per nine (1.8BB/9 -- for a 5.4K/BB ratio) last year, compared to 6.8K/9, 3.5BB/9 and 1.95K/BB for Pettittte. Even adjusting for league and level of competition, it just does not seem like it would even be a question who should pitch Game 2 of a playoff series, unless the opposition really had problems with lefties. Vazquez's performance last year similarly blows Burnett's out of the water. Like you said, good problem to have, but the optimal playoff rotation starts with CC and then goes to Vazquez, followed by Burnett or Pettitte. Heck, based on last year's performance alone, you could make the case for Vazquez over CC. Great pick-up by the Yankees.
posted by holden at 12:40 PM on December 22, 2009
Tiger Woods and Jessica Simpson flirting -- OMG!
Jess denies it, but man, has this hit the bottom of the barrel.
posted by wfrazerjr at 12:52 PM on December 22, 2009
Fraze, this "story" hit the bottom of the barrel the moment the National Enquirer got involved.
posted by BornIcon at 01:07 PM on December 22, 2009
Even adjusting for league and level of competition, it just does not seem like it would even be a question who should pitch Game 2 of a playoff series, unless the opposition really had problems with lefties.
I think that's part of the Pettitte allure; he's a lefty with a proven post-season record who breaks up the righties.
That said, the last time Vazquez pitched for the Yanks, he had an ERA of almost 5.00. An anomaly or do we have to question his ability to pitch in the Bronx?
posted by dfleming at 01:37 PM on December 22, 2009
Brodeur also took the record of games played by a goalie from Roy earlier this week. Certainly has been a treat to see his career unflod all these years, even though he plays for those damned Devils...
posted by MeatSaber at 01:58 PM on December 22, 2009
I don't get it Rumple, should Brodeur refuse to accept that he set a record?
posted by tahoemoj at 04:30 PM on December 22, 2009
To kind of further that thought-Brodeur plays in the era of first aluminum and then composite sticks, weightless equipment, and 6"+ 230lb players skating on high-tech composite skates. Does that somehow diminish Sawchuck's accomplishments?
posted by tahoemoj at 04:44 PM on December 22, 2009
Yeah, hats off to Brodeur. Never mind that Sawchuk set his record in the era of 50 game seasons and no masks.
You could turn this around to say that Brodeur plays 70 games a year, flying all over the country and then another 10+ games in the playoffs, depending on how the Devils do. He has never gotten the benefit of a night off very often and, considering how many goalies fall apart after 50+ games a season, his achievement is actually more impressive.
posted by dfleming at 04:52 PM on December 22, 2009
achievement is actually more impressive
Yup ... his achievements are certainly under publicized because of the market he plays in. Just think if he'd played in Montreal, Toronto, Boston, Chicago .....
posted by cixelsyd at 05:30 PM on December 22, 2009
You could turn this around to say that Brodeur plays 70 games a year, flying all over the country and then another 10+ games in the playoffs, depending on how the Devils do. He has never gotten the benefit of a night off very often and, considering how many goalies fall apart after 50+ games a season, his achievement is actually more impressive.
When Sawchuk played, they didn't have backup goalies, so he never had the benefit of a night off either. Just sayin...
posted by MeatSaber at 06:27 PM on December 22, 2009
Maybe Sawchuk could keep the record for the dead puck era.
posted by graymatters at 06:50 PM on December 22, 2009
When Sawchuk played, they didn't have backup goalies, so he never had the benefit of a night off either. Just sayin...
Oh, I agree. Any comparison between eras is not going to end in a definitive answer, I just think that the legitimacy of both goaltenders has warrant. Brodeur does indeed have the most shutouts now, but Sawchuck's accomplishment, on its own, is really remarkable.
posted by dfleming at 06:59 PM on December 22, 2009
Sawchuck's accomplishment, on its own, is really remarkable.
Absolutely, positively. Different eras, different styles of play, different everything. Both men warrant mention in discussions of the best who ever played.
posted by tahoemoj at 07:20 PM on December 22, 2009
You can say that Sawchuk's era had the 120 best players playing in the NHL. Think about that: take the 4 best players from every team right now...that was the NHL then. Definitely a more competitive league. And you played each team 14 times...more than enough for shooters to learn your tendencies. But the NHL then was primarily North American players, so you just can't compare eras.
Brodeur, by virtue of having the most games played obviously took longer than Sawchuk to get to the record. But he's the best I've seen, so I guess that'll have to suffice...
posted by MeatSaber at 07:40 PM on December 22, 2009
No disrespect to Brodeur at all, obviously one of the better modern-era goalies. But these career-long records, no matter what sport, are pretty meaningless to me. He has the record and all respect to him. Other shorter term records are also useless, like goalie "wins" (a stupid recent import from baseball anyway) and team points, both of which are corrupted by the OT and shootout Wins and Points which are assigned. Plus some goalies (Fuhr) played mainly in a live puck era while others (Brodeur ) played muchly in a dead puck one. Shutouts just aren't that meaningful a statistic I don't think, between eras anyway.
Anyway, Sawchuk got his 103 shutouts in 977 career games while Brodeur got his in 1032 games. Pretty similar. Grant Fuhr - 25 shutouts in 868 games.
posted by rumple at 11:40 PM on December 22, 2009
Think about that: take the 4 best players from every team right now...that was the NHL then.
Except that players are bigger, faster and shoot harder now. Not to mention they have the benefit of videos and coaches who can analyze footage to let them know that a goalie has a weak spot.
It's such a hard thing to analyze but it's fun to argue about.
posted by dfleming at 02:27 PM on December 23, 2009
Toss in all of the Eastern Europeans and Scandanavians, too. They've added a lot to the game.
posted by tahoemoj at 04:15 PM on December 23, 2009
Congrats to Marty, really wish it didnt have to happen against the Pens. I really do feel that the changes in equipment have helped todays goalies, but still an amazing record none the less. In a battle that was probably being watched but Team Canada's coaches for the upcoming olymipcs, Marty shined and Marc Andre dropped the ball.