September 01, 2009

Why are they in English?

posted by NoMich at 07:43 PM on September 01, 2009

More disgraceful than the beliefs of this one particular loser is the cowardly statement by his promotor that they "do NOT in any way support the views of any individual in particular" - emphasizing the NOT when what struck me was the lumping him into the category of ANY INDIVIDUAL IN PARTICULAR.

Am I to assume that they are trying to protect themselves against backlash from their white brethren fanbase?

posted by MW12 at 08:17 PM on September 01, 2009

they've been largely ignored by MMA fans and the media, in large part because M-1 has required him to wear a patch over them while he fights.

Thank goodness. If only they could cover up the rest of those hideous looking things. Lets see, white is good, but I'm gonna cover it with vomit green and putrid red!

I am not involved in any politics whatsoever."

He has his politics confused with hatred and racism, obviously. But, it does seem to me that that crowd really likes their MMA.

Good on M-1 for taking their stand.

posted by mjkredliner at 11:37 PM on September 01, 2009

Amazing. Every specific comment thus far has focused on the tatooed words "white pride" as if this is some heinous statement. Must be the Bill Maher fan club link. I would have thought the Swastika would have drawn all the fiery rhetoric.

posted by sandskater at 12:50 AM on September 02, 2009

Sandskater: So you're a racist then? I mean I'm just making the assumption that if you find nothing heinous with the phrase "white pride" then you quite possibly are. The only people I know of who wouldn't think it anything other than despicable are racists. And yet here you are, saying "as if this is some heinous statement". Curious...

And really, the best way to deal with cockends like this is to mock them. Mercilessly. The guy is an idiot.

I have an overwhelming urge to see this racist, anti-semetic douchebag in a ring with Brock Lesnar now so they can have a "chat". I'm talking about Toni here BTW.

posted by Drood at 01:07 AM on September 02, 2009

Simply put, why is Black Pride, Brown Pride, etc. acceptable, but White Pride offensive? If you seriously think that someone being proud of being white is any more offensive than someone being proud of being any other color, than you need to re-examine your own life. I say this, being part American Indian (Yes, I said Indian. I was Indian before people decided that the "Indians" would be offended to be called Indian. Can't be Native American either, we were here before Amerigo Vespucci named the country.) The Swastika, that is another story. That is a symbol of Hate to a lot of Races and Nationalities.

posted by thenewguy821 at 07:52 AM on September 02, 2009

why is Black Pride, Brown Pride, etc. acceptable, but White Pride offensive

Only one of the three has led directly to the extermination of millions of people. See if you can guess which.

posted by yerfatma at 09:36 AM on September 02, 2009

why is Black Pride, Brown Pride, etc. acceptable, but White Pride offensive?

There's nothing wrong with having pride for your race but the words "white pride" is associated with the Nazi regime which is why when those words are in written form or said out loud, people tend to get offended. Plus, Valtonen has a Swastika near the upper portion of his right arm near his armpit (well placed) so it's not like he was just proud to be white when he got that tattoo.

posted by BornIcon at 10:56 AM on September 02, 2009

Don't you dare bad-mouth the great Charlie Pride, fraze.

posted by yerfatma at 11:05 AM on September 02, 2009

As to the question on Brown Pride, and where to sign up... Look up Cain Velasquez, another MMA fighter, who has Brown Pride tattooed on his chest.

posted by thenewguy821 at 11:13 AM on September 02, 2009

I have never heard of Brown Pride. I am intrigued.

Mexicans (Chicanos) use the terminology Brown Pride.

The Swastika is linked to the extermination of millions of people, NOT "White Pride".

And the Swastika is linked to Nazis who used the term White Pride which led to the extermination of millions of people.

..to consider someone a racist just because they are proud of their race, is wrong.

That's not why he's considered to be a racist. It's the combination of both the White Pride tattoo plus the Nazi Swastika that makes him out to be a racist.

I have found that there are an unlimited amount of assholes in all skin types and ethnic groups. How can you be proud of all of them?

Assholes and ignorance come in all colors, no one is disputing that. The origin of the Swastik goes back as far as 3000 years but the Swastika that's being spoken of is the one worn by Nazis which symbolizes racism and hate.

Look up Cain Velasquez, another MMA fighter, who has Brown Pride tattooed on his chest.

The term Brown pride didn't lead to millions of people getting killed.

posted by BornIcon at 11:20 AM on September 02, 2009

You're an Irishman? Oh gary, how I do swell!

posted by THX-1138 at 11:32 AM on September 02, 2009

There is absolutely a double standard in this country. You can have the Black Entertainment Awards, or the NAACP, United Negro College Fund or the Black Entertainment Television etc. but if you had the White Entertainment Awards, or NAAWP or White Entertainment Television etc.

You are either being deliberately stupid or have managed to never watch television. Every other station besides a black or Latin station could aptly be called White Entertainment Television.

Ranting about how white people have it bad? Really?!?

posted by bperk at 11:47 AM on September 02, 2009

There is absolutely a double standard in this country. You can have the Black Entertainment Awards, or the NAACP, United Negro College Fund or the Black Entertainment Television etc. but if you had the White Entertainment Awards, or NAAWP or White Entertainment Television etc. ??

I've heard this argument many times but what people need to remember is that people of color were held back for years just because of the color of their skin. The Civil Rights movement in the 60's was so that people of color would have the same rights as white people and we're just talking about something that transpired less than 50 years ago and racism is still prevelant to this day. Let's not kid ourselves here.

To include BET, the NAACP and the United Negro Fund in your argument is ridiculous considering those entities would not have been created if not for the fact that people of color were treated unfairly to begin with and had nothing to call their own. No college scholarships, no equal rights and no television shows that reflected on their everyday lives.

I love being an American but America was founded on racism. The Presidents of the United States had slaves of their own to tend the fields, clean their homes and serve their food which is why Abraham Lincoln is looked upon as someone who changed the way that people of color were being treated because he disapproved of slavery even though he married Mary Todd in 1842 whose family were a prominent slave-owning family from Kentucky.

posted by BornIcon at 12:02 PM on September 02, 2009

Oh gary, how I do swell!

Honestly, not sure how I feel about this.

How about confused and intrigued? Or, as I said on another thread, you could use your hands.

posted by THX-1138 at 03:32 PM on September 02, 2009

This knee-jerk rush to connect the term "white pride'" to Nazism is indeed, curious. Had the tatoo said "white supremacy" I would understand the connection that many of you have made. The Nazi's, however, were even more selective than that, believing in the superiority of the northern European or "Aryan" race. You know, the tall, blond, supermen and women which were the poster children of the Nazi ideal. In the hierarchy of Nazi thinking many of us, white or not, would not have made the cut. In regard to the negative labeling of those that don't agree with us, I think the Nazi's had a pretty firm grasp of that, too. It's a shame it still persists today in supposedly "enlightened" individuals.

posted by sandskater at 01:19 AM on September 03, 2009

They are connected on this fighter's skin, sandskater. The swastika tattoo leaves no doubt what he meant by "white pride" when he got that ink, just as "white pride" web sites leave no doubt what they mean either. I don't understand the compulsion some people have to delude themselves about what "white pride" means. It's willful ignorance.

posted by rcade at 09:50 AM on September 03, 2009

As a country we have gone overboard with political correctness and frankly I am getting sick of it.

You aren't the only one, sir.

When economists, for example, can show that salaries, rates of employment, career advancement and similar are reasonably equivalent based on percent of total population we can have this discussion.

When scholars can show similar statistical equivalence for imprisonment, quality of education and quality of housing we can have this discussion.

When your 'scholars' can show me that so-called disadvantaged groups of people are indeed taking advantage of all the resources available to them, and are putting their nose to the grindstone to achieve equality in the form of hard work and diligence in the above mentioned areas, then I will believe they are disadvantaged.

All the constitution, and this country, are required to provide, is the equality of opportunity, and not equality of outcomes. Wherever there is liberty there must be disparity in economic circumstances because freedom allows the passionate to strive and innovate but compels no man to labor.

Too many success stories indicate that with hard work, the "American Dream" is within reach of anyone, regardless of color. Likewise, complacency and apathy have the same results for all races of people as well.

posted by mjkredliner at 02:09 PM on September 03, 2009

When your 'scholars' can show me that so-called disadvantaged groups of people are indeed taking advantage of all the resources available to them, and are putting their nose to the grindstone to achieve equality in the form of hard work and diligence in the above mentioned areas, then I will believe they are disadvantaged.

So basically, you are refusing to believe statistical facts about economic disparities in favor of unprovable perceptions that disadvantaged groups are that way because they don't work hard enough. That's an awfully convenient belief.

Everything in this country doesn't boil down to how hard you work. There are systemic disadvantages that can't be overcome simply with toil. Kids who are malnourished have less brain development and do not learn as well as their peers, for instance, and there are millions of underfed kids in this country. Kids who go to school in poor urban districts are getting a vastly inferior quality of education than the ones in rich suburban school districts, a disparity caused by funding schools with property taxes.

We're not anywhere close to equality of opportunity in this country.

posted by rcade at 02:28 PM on September 03, 2009

I believe that we are much closer than y'all think.

It's great that you think so, and thanks for throwing in that homespun "y'all" in lieu of any facts to support your position. If only you could have given us a wink too. It's awesome that a thread about racism has devolved, yet again into some nebulous political discussion unrelated to the topic. You think we're so close to a country of equality of opportunity? Why? We heard a lot of this in elections and you vote for these millionaires and billionaires who tell you Mexicans are stealing your jobs, people in the inner-city (stage whisper: "THAT MEANS BLACK!") are just lazy (sorry, not taking advantage of their myriad opportunities) and you vote for them, but nothing changes. As Patterson Hood sang, "To the fucking rich man all poor people look the same."

posted by yerfatma at 03:48 PM on September 03, 2009

thanks for throwing in that homespun "y'all" in lieu of any facts to support your position. If only you could have given us a wink too.

I say "y'all" because many of us folks from Texas do. But, I'm guessing that you came up with that smarmy Sarah Palin reference (of whom I am no fan of) while you were driving down a narrow Massachussetts bridge.

It's awesome that a thread about racism has devolved, yet again into some nebulous political discussion unrelated to the topic.

And, I see that you are more than willing to contribute to what has turned into a "nebulous political discussion" Uh, by the way, the person of whom the article is about tried to deny that there were political connotations to his ink (or, link, if you will), but it was more or less inevitable that this was gonna come up. Were posters supposed to say "Oh good, I hope that he has a great MMA career despite his offensive tattoos" and ignore the political ramifications of his marks?

You think we're so close to a country of equality of opportunity? Why?

We could bandy about stats and links for days, both of us showing "statistical proof" that the other is wrong.

you vote for these millionaires and billionaires

Nope, never a billionaire. A millionaire or two, yes. Bet you have, too.

who tell you Mexicans are stealing your jobs, people in the inner-city (stage whisper: "THAT MEANS BLACK!") are just lazy

Mexicans are not stealing my jobs, if anything, they are providing me with work. That I am grateful to have (times are tough in the oilpatch these days, just like everywhere else). In the oilfields, hard work is everything, and if you can do the job well, then your color matters not. In fact, I sometimes work with illegal aliens who work their ass off every day, and I don't hear them complaining about not having equal opportunity, and they damn sure don't have a safety net. I get mud and oil and grease on my boots, jeans, and hands every day, many times 7 days a week, and answer my phone at all hours of the day, and believe me, sir, I am not rich. I have failed at business more than once, but I do not let it keep me down, nor do I complain that I am being held down, I try to hold myself accountable for myself, and to be self sufficient the best way I know how. And believe you me, sir, that I truly know that blacks are not the sole proprietors of the institution known as laziness. So before you make assumptions about who I vote for and what you think you know about how I feel, maybe you should walk a mile in my boots.

Stay in school, stay away from drugs, do well in school, and work hard are good values for anyone, regardless of your color. And if you think I sound like Boxer from Animal Farm, you aren't the first to make that comparism, and probably won't be the last. Works for me and countless others. And don't forget, there are white children who have the same disadvantages that rcade and others listed above.

I do like your taste in music, though

posted by mjkredliner at 10:43 PM on September 03, 2009

Stay in school, stay away from drugs, do well in school, and work hard are good values for anyone, regardless of your color . . . Works for me and countless others. And don't forget, there are white children who have the same disadvantages that rcade and others listed above.

I haven't forgotten that. I think discussions of race in this country are an easy dodge to avoid that the real problems are those of social class/ income levels, not skin color. The thing that you're glossing over, as bill suggested above, is that staying in school doesn't do much for kids in places all over this country. If your school is terrible and you don't have a social support net (family), all the bromides in the world aren't going to do much for you. Which is how you wind up with a bunch of tattoos screaming "WHITE PRIDE" as if there was something in your town to be proud of.

You'll pardon the dangling preposition. Schooling did me wrong.

posted by yerfatma at 08:43 AM on September 04, 2009