11/05/24
August 19, 2009
South African Runner Faces Accusation She's a Man, Baby: After running the fastest time in the world in the 800 meters at the African Athletic Championships earlier this year, South African runner Caster Semenya is facing persistent speculation that she's a man. "We understand that people will ask questions because she looks like a man," said her coach Michael Seme. "But I can give you the telephone numbers of her room-mates in Berlin. They have already seen her naked in the showers and she has nothing to hide." The Age in Australia is reporting that physical and genetic tests have been conducted and her eligibility to race is in doubt.
She looka like.......a man.
But that don't mean nothing. I have seen lot's of guitar players that look like women.
posted by THX-1138 at 01:20 PM on August 19, 2009
I'm hoping she's a man just because if she isn't I feel very bad for her.
posted by justgary at 01:51 PM on August 19, 2009
Aren't human characteristics always on a spectrum anyway? We set rules that you are either female or male, but the reality is not always so clear.
posted by bperk at 01:55 PM on August 19, 2009
Damn...just, damn. I remember how difficult it was being 18 years old, and people never questioned my gender. I don't care how talented (s)he is, this whole situation has got to be beating the shit out of her psyche. Sounds to me like she's just one of those androgynous people who happens to fall ever so slightly onto the female side (but I wouldn't be surprised if she had a 6 inch clitoris that she pees out of.)
posted by tahoemoj at 02:16 PM on August 19, 2009
Easy solution. Just eliminate the gender-based sporting events. Have men and women all compete together. Having separate competitions for the women is just discrimination. Equality for the sexes!
posted by graymatters at 02:51 PM on August 19, 2009
Easy solution. Just eliminate the gender-based sporting events. Have men and women all compete together.
Are you suggesting only in track & field or ALL sports? I just can't picture a woman D'ing up LeBron or Kobe or blocking for Adrian Peterson at the line of scrimmage.
A bit off the subject but what if a woman D's up LeBron and steals the ball or blocks his shot, will he ask for any or all the recordings to be confiscated?
posted by BornIcon at 03:33 PM on August 19, 2009
They have already seen her naked in the showers and she has nothing to hide.
My ex-wife used to say the same thing about me. The worst of it is, I couldn't run very fast either.
posted by Howard_T at 04:06 PM on August 19, 2009
Semanya just took the 800m gold, completely dominating the field. So, this one's going to stay in the headlines.
posted by etagloh at 04:09 PM on August 19, 2009
Apparently they allowed her to run, because she's listed as the winner in an incredible 1:55.45.
posted by dusted at 04:14 PM on August 19, 2009
Aren't human characteristics always on a spectrum anyway? We set rules that you are either female or male, but the reality is not always so clear.
+1
I feel sorry for her. She just won the biggest race of her career and instead of enjoying her night with a lap of honour, she was whisked away by the IAAF, away from the journalists who are all clambering to ask her if she's a man.
The IAAF have handled this terribly. There was an official being interviewed on the BBC about it, and he was using words likes "discretely" and "sensitively" and "privately", completely oblivious to the fact he was talking about it live on TV.
Michael Johnson made a great point: If an athlete fails a dope test, their name is not released to the press until the b-sample confirms the positive and all doubt is removed. Why wasn't this done here? If there are gender tests that need to be done (apparently there are a whole battery of tests to be done, and an outcome is only decided after a debate by a panel of doctors), then so be it. But do it privately and sensitively and allow her to compete in peace until all doubt it removed.
The girl is 18 years old and according to the BBC commentators there is absolutely no question of a deliberate attempt to cheat. She identifies as female. This is going to mess with her head, however the tests turn out.
posted by afx237vi at 04:31 PM on August 19, 2009
Aren't human characteristics always on a spectrum anyway? We set rules that you are either female or male, but the reality is not always so clear.
Except for that whole hormonal thing. Biological genotype plays an important roll to make thing usually quite clear from a physical standpoint. Ya know, testes descending or not part which directly influences physical characteristics and hormones among other things.
posted by jmd82 at 06:12 PM on August 19, 2009
If an athlete fails a dope test, their name is not released to the press until the b-sample confirms the positive and all doubt is removed. Why wasn't this done here?
Steve Cram suggested that gender tests are triggered by a protest from another delegation. I don't see that explicitly in the 2009 IAAF rules -- which simply state that the Medical Delegate has the authority to "arrange for the determination of the gender of an athlete should he judge that to be desirable", but the IAAF rules for Beijing said this:
Gender Verification: In the event that the gender of a competing athlete is questioned, the medical delegate (or equivalent) of the IOC MC shall have the authority to take all appropriate measures, for the determination of the gender of that competitor. It is understood that a confidential case-by-case evaluation will occurClearly, the 'confidential' doesn't apply here. Equally clearly, this was leaked in order to overshadow the race. There's a lot of passive-voice reporting here -- 'her gender has been questioned', etc -- but either the IAAF decided unilaterally, or received a protest after the African junior championships in Mauritius three weeks ago, and I don't think 'confidentiality' ought to apply to those details, or to who leaked the story.
posted by etagloh at 06:12 PM on August 19, 2009
Are you suggesting only in track & field or ALL sports? I just can't picture a woman D'ing up LeBron or Kobe or blocking for Adrian Peterson at the line of scrimmage.
Why not for ALL sports? If a woman has the ability to post up LeBron, or to sack Brady, or strike out Pujols, let her compete. If not, let her stay home. But make them earn their spot.
posted by graymatters at 06:28 PM on August 19, 2009
Clearly, the 'confidential' doesn't apply here.
No one seems to get it. Confidential means that the person who makes the accusation or who leaks the story gets confidentiality. The person being accused, whether rightly or wrongly, has no such right. That's the way it always plays out, whether in this case, steroid accusations, or otherwise.
posted by graymatters at 06:32 PM on August 19, 2009
Yeah, Graymatters. Let's teach girls all over the world that if they can't compete at the same level as men they shouldn't bother with sports at all. Same goes for the differently abled too. Special Olympians think they're so special.
posted by rcade at 07:28 PM on August 19, 2009
Special Olympians think they're so special.
I laughed out loud.
posted by dusted at 07:49 PM on August 19, 2009
Let's teach girls all over the world that if they can't compete at the same level as men they shouldn't bother with sports at all. Same goes for the differently abled too. Special Olympians think they're so special.
Good thing we can detect your sarcasm, rcade, but it is an excellent point. I'll tell you from first-hand experience that trying to debunk the assumed myth of the superiority of male sport is an uphill battle though. And the ironic part of it is that this is also a time when "athletes" like a Natalie Gulbis will pose wearing an apron standing stirring the pot (with golf clubs conveniently propped against the stove) for photo shoot is touted as somehow "progressive."??????
Anyway, I also find it somewhat incredible that no one has played the race card yet either.
posted by Spitztengle at 08:02 PM on August 19, 2009
Anyway, I also find it somewhat incredible that no one has played the race card yet either.
OK, I'll play. If women get to have their separate leagues and competition events, then why not let whites have theirs as well. Fair is fair.
posted by graymatters at 09:15 PM on August 19, 2009
Now you're just trolling. If male or white athletes want to start their own leagues and enjoy less money and stature than they do today, no one is stopping them.
posted by rcade at 09:38 PM on August 19, 2009
Now you're just trolling. If male or white athletes want to start their own leagues and enjoy less money and stature than they do today, no one is stopping them.
While I agree gray's just trolling at this point, I'd love to see someone try to create an all white league. Not to watch it, but because while it maybe, technically could happen, any known name joining such a league would create an outrage factor up there with dog fighting.
posted by jmd82 at 12:05 AM on August 20, 2009
You should have heard the town council meeting when I proposed my West Highland White Terrier Fighting League here. And now I'm on 88 weird mailing lists.
posted by yerfatma at 08:28 AM on August 20, 2009
If male or white athletes want to start their own leagues and enjoy less money and stature than they do today, no one is stopping them.
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 is stopping them.
posted by bperk at 09:04 AM on August 20, 2009
I won't pretend to be an expert on this, but a sports league is not a public accomodation. If The Masters can continue to exclude female members because it is a private entity, white men could start the WMPGA.
posted by rcade at 10:26 AM on August 20, 2009
"Except for that whole hormonal thing. "
Which, of course, is always completely unambiguous, nosirree, no gray areas where hormones are concerned.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:35 AM on August 20, 2009
I won't pretend to be an expert on this, but a sports league is not a public accomodation.
No, but it may be access to employment, which (at least in the United States) is governed by employment law and antidiscrimination laws governing matters of employment.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:37 AM on August 20, 2009
If The Masters can continue to exclude female members because it is a private entity, white men could start the WMPGA.
There is an exception in the Civil Rights Act for private membership clubs.
posted by bperk at 10:44 AM on August 20, 2009
If a woman has the ability to post up LeBron, or to sack Brady, or strike out Pujols, let her compete.
Brady has been sacked by a woman. Gisele Bundchen.
posted by dbt302 at 12:16 PM on August 20, 2009
No, but it may be access to employment, which (at least in the United States) is governed by employment law and antidiscrimination laws governing matters of employment.
So, is that why all the NFL teams decided to have cheerleaders? To comply with employment law?
posted by graymatters at 12:59 PM on August 20, 2009
So, is that why all the NFL teams decided to have cheerleaders? To comply with employment law?
I'm sorry, but I don't get the connection. Perhaps you could point it out.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:44 PM on August 20, 2009
Gender Identification Ain't Easy
And just because I'm a stickler about these things, it's SEX, not GENDER, dammit. Gosh, people ... get it right.
Anyway, to wade into this whole why can't white guys make space for themselves argument ... all I have to say is that anyone who wants to make that argument REALLY, and I mean REALLY needs to interrogate the logic that underpins their position. Put simply, the impetus behind equal rights legislation has only ever been to level an unequal field. White men, not now, nor have they ever needed "rights" to access opportunities for business, sport, or recreation. Secondly, there are issues of social power that run beyond the limits of mere political recognition (e.g., personhood) that, straight white men in particular fail to acknowledge or can even perceive. The patriarchal gaze (sexualization, objectification, fetishization, etc.) still exists in a very prominent way. Thus, the feminist/anti-racist (the list goes on and on) projects are far from over.
FACT: White men are not disadvantaged because of either their sex or their race.
As such, these conversations about white men needing or wanting to start private clubs (again) are really moot.
Here endeth the rant.
posted by Spitztengle at 02:06 PM on August 20, 2009
You should have heard the town council meeting when I proposed my West Highland White Terrier Fighting League here.
yerfatma, I'm going to bleach a Scotty and kick some tail in your league.
posted by Howard_T at 02:50 PM on August 20, 2009
Here. I think it's actually like this:
Brady has been sacked by a woman. Gisele Bundchen.
I'm going to bleach a Scotty and kick some tail in your league
I was thinking the same thing but with my Pit Bull instead...then I remembered what happened with Mike Vick and thought otherwise.
posted by BornIcon at 03:37 PM on August 20, 2009
White men, not now, nor have they ever needed "rights" to access opportunities for business, sport, or recreation.
Tell that to Vanilla Ice.
posted by cjets at 06:20 PM on August 20, 2009
What, no semen? ya! jokes yet? too early?
So easy a caveman could do it? (Actually I never saw it. Good eye, mate.)
posted by THX-1138 at 08:14 PM on August 20, 2009
Are you advertising for Geico?
posted by BornIcon at 07:46 AM on August 21, 2009
posted by Spitztengle at 09:37 AM on August 21, 2009
Thanks for the Zirin link. I didn't know that The Nation had a sportswriter, but it makes sense that they've got one who can use the word "heteronormative" in a sentence.
posted by rcade at 10:01 AM on August 21, 2009
Zirin is the bomb. You should check out any one of his several books (e.g., A People's History of Sports in the United States, Welcome to the Terrordome, What's My Name?), or his website: The Edge of Sports
posted by Spitztengle at 10:20 AM on August 21, 2009
"The teenager from Pretoria has raised eyebrows due to her stocky, muscular physique and apparently masculine characteristics, including facial hair."
I had an aunt (R.I.P) that had facial hair and if anyone questioned her sexual orientation, she probably would've grabbed her wooden spoon and beat someone over their head. I have the lumps to prove that.