12/21/24
December 10, 2008
New York Post: Sabathia Will Sign with Yankees: "C.C. Sabathia is going to be a Yankee," the New York Post reported in an exclusive this morning. "There are still minor hurdles to finalize, notably that Sabathia must pass a physical." Sabathia will reportedly get a six-year, $140 million deal that's the largest pitching contract in league history.
Even now he will need some TLC during the regular season to limit his pitch counts and innings. He has shown a tendency to wear down in the post-season. I do agree that for the next few years he adds a lot to a shaky starting pitching staff.
posted by Howard_T at 12:17 PM on December 10, 2008
Thank god we have another player making more money the the Pirate team put together.
posted by Debo270 at 01:35 PM on December 10, 2008
Hang on now... He still has to pass the physical. Ensure there are no Denny''s en route. Consider it playing the percentages. It's the smart move.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 06:32 PM on December 10, 2008
Has CC ever had a decent bullpen behind him? He will in New York, sure, but has he ever had a bullpen that could take over a game in the 6th throughout the entire season to help keep his arm fresh?
posted by NoMich at 07:01 PM on December 10, 2008
Interesting article about plus sized pitchers in SI just now. They learned to pitch as big people - you don't necessarily want them to take lots of the weight off. They might not be as effective.
I wonder if anyone has done a study of the big dollar free agent pitcher signings to see what percentage of them didn't pan out. Seems like a fair number of high ticket guys have flamed out after they got the golden contract.
I admit to having a sense of quiet satisfaction whenever this happens. I don't like it when excessive spending appears to be a worthwhile activity.
If the US ever gets to 10% unemployment or worse during this current economic crisis, I wonder if fans are going to look at some of the pro contracts in major league sports and just decide that they've finally had it with the insane amounts of money that get routinely handed out.
We're already clamoring for the heads of absurdly overpaid corporate executives and investment managers. Can absurdly overpaid athletes be far behind?
posted by beaverboard at 04:59 AM on December 11, 2008
If the US ever gets to 10% unemployment or worse during this current economic crisis, I wonder if fans are going to look at some of the pro contracts in major league sports and just decide that they've finally had it with the insane amounts of money that get routinely handed out. We're already clamoring for the heads of absurdly overpaid corporate executives and investment managers. Can absurdly overpaid athletes be far behind?
If history is any indication, people's outrage subsides pretty quickly. In the last 15 years, we've been through a strike, insane salaries and a steroid scandal. People keep going to the games.
posted by dfleming at 07:24 AM on December 11, 2008
Why do so many people seem to think that if players didn't get big salaries, the money would go to feed the poor or, somehow, reduce unemployment. If CC didn't get the $160 million, George would keep it for himself. Personally, I'd much rather see the players get the money than the billionaire owners. The owners that I can't stand are the ones who take Steinbrenner's luxury tax payments and put it in their pocket - as opposed to trying to improve their teams.
posted by pullmyfinger at 10:54 AM on December 11, 2008
Many pro sports teams operate in the red because of player salaries. Owners operate their franchises knowing that they're going to run significant deficits every year, even with stadium upgrades, media deals, and merchandise sales, etc.
The ridiculous salaries are at the root of many things that are wrong with pro (and upper level collegiate) sports. And by extension, with certain aspects of the US cultural mindset.
The major league pro athlete marketplace is not based on economic principles that are connected to common sense or reality. There has to be an upper limit threshold at some point, where either team owners, leagues, or fans say: "This has gone too far". Like when the Big 3 automakers arrived in Washington on private corporate jets to ask for a bailout. That got people angry, and rightfully so.
If millions of people are losing their jobs and homes and going on public assistance or can't afford their medications and they see that some knucklehead is getting several million per year for being a decent but not overwhelming professional athlete, at some point, that picture is going to start looking real ugly to them.
We already have fans who feel that the high cost of being a fan entitles them to act up, rush onto the field, or throw batteries, beer, piss and what have you. Wonder what they'll do when the day comes when they finally start resenting player salaries instead of being mesmerized by them.
Coaching contracts and buyouts are already starting to really bother people. Hardly anyone mentions Nick Saban's name without also harping on his 4 million a year compensation. Regardless of the results he's been getting on the field. And regardless of who is paying his salary - public funds or private individuals.
And that's for someone currently at the top of his profession. Then there's guys like Charlie Weis and Rich Rodriguez...
posted by beaverboard at 03:25 PM on December 11, 2008
Nice analogy to the big 3 auto makers. They are going down the tube BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PUT A COMPETATIVE TEAM ON THE FIELD, not because some CEO made $10 million. Last year, Toyota Motors sold almost exactly she same number of cars worldwide as GM. Toyota made slightly more than $10 billion in profit whereas GM lost untold billions. This had nothing to do with Wagners $10 million salary. It had to do with the product.
Auto mfgs and sports teams suffer the same fate. Put out a good product and you will succede. Put out crapola and you will fail.
Pro athletes are entertainers. Their earnings potential should be what the market will pay, just as actors, musicians and all other entertainers. If they outprice their worth, the public will quit paying. That's their problem, not yours or mine.
posted by pullmyfinger at 07:17 PM on December 11, 2008
The contract is a head turner simply because the Yankees were bidding against no one else. The only thing that makes sense is that Sabathia did NOT want to be a yankee.
I've heard this idea said to be only rumor, but evidently 140 million wasn't enough. 160 was, but only with an escape clause for Sabathia.
They were forced into giving him an offer he couldn't refuse. What a difference a year makes. Passing on Santana and going with the youngsters was a disaster, so this is the result.
(and I know, Santana would have taken players or prospects, but there's more to it than that.)
posted by justgary at 07:28 PM on December 11, 2008
The only thing that makes sense is that Sabathia did NOT want to be a yankee.
Obviously, a 7 year, $161 million dollar with an option to opt out after 3 years convinced CC that he just HAD to be a Yankee and not play for less money elsewhere to a place he would be more comfortable playing. Now I hear that they're going after AJ Burnett. I'm no Yankee fan but I'm damn sure that Yanks fans are going nutso right about now.
posted by BornIcon at 07:40 AM on December 12, 2008
Now I hear that they're going after AJ Burnett.
Not making the playoffs and having money to burn (with some contracts coming off the books) means nothing the Yankees will do this off season surprises me.
posted by justgary at 04:02 PM on December 12, 2008
Hey, justgary. I see your uniform is number 8. You must be a Yogi fan. Me too. Yogi, Mickey M, Phil R, Moose S, Whitey F, Gil McD, Andy C, Hank B, Gene W, Irv N, Billy M. Not too shabby. BTW, just pulling your leg. Yaz wasn't too shabby either. Ain't he the only triple crown winner since the Mick in 1956? Another BTW, the yanks had another #8. His name was Bill Dickey. Not too shabby either.
posted by pullmyfinger at 12:57 AM on December 13, 2008
I agree, justgary. Hank Steinbrenner allowed the team to sit on their young arms/prospects last year and see where that took them. They found out there are no sure things, no matter how highly touted prospects tend to be, so he's not about to let them do the same thing again. That being said, even though the Yanks have now attracted the two top arms in the free agent pool, they are far from sure things. As much as I like Sabathia, and always have, his huge body and potential health problems do concern me. He's also going back to the American League, where the lineups he'll face each outing will pose more of a challenge than he faced during his dominating NL stint last year. Burnett's history of injury also worries me. If the Yanks all of a sudden find themselves playing long periods of time next season without one, or both of these guys, they'll be right back to where they were this year. But the rotation as it stands now, with Sabathia, Burnett, Wang, Chamberlain, and possibly Pettitte (if they resign him) is a quality one. Rumors also have the Yanks possibly interested in Ben Sheets, which would make it three newly-signed injury concerns. But the Yanks have to take this chance. Yankee haters all over the world can only dream of the enjoyment they'll get if these new signings should fail to pan out.
posted by dyams at 02:13 PM on December 13, 2008
I love the cry of the Blue Jays fans about how Burnett didn't show the team any loyalty. Look at this team; they're run by one of the biggest corporations in Canada who act like they've got pennies on the dollar to compete with the Steinbrenners. They have no loyalty to their fans; they scrimp and pinch and make excuses about how the slumping canadian dollar hurts them (despite the fact their merch/tickets sell for inflated canadian dollars). They're making a lot of their money in $US and report their earnings in $US.
If teams like the Blue Jays treat their on-field product as a source of profit, they cannot complain when the players treat themselves as the same. As much as I'd love to hate the Yankees, they're concerned about winning and putting a team on the field that makes the fans happy. The Blue Jays would rather turn a profit with 2/3 of a stadium filled.
posted by dfleming at 06:18 PM on December 13, 2008
Dude, the Jays lose money. Rogers Corp. sees them as an investment that supports their other media endeavors, and the owner Ted Rogers (who died last week), was just a city booster kinda guy. It's not about a profit.
Their local revenue - including tickets and TV - is collected in Canadian dollars.
I'm not complaining about Burnett leaving. I didn't want him to go, but he was a one season pitcher for us at the age of 32. Frankly, with the staff we had last year, and the injuries to it before Burnett was gone - he wasn't going to make the difference this year. If I'm the Yankees, I do that deal in a second. Who cares if he only throws a total of three out of the five years? If he gets hurt too bad - you can try to go out and replace him, or if he wins a championship and then breaks down, no biggie - another free agent class will be around again.
Jays will likely make moves to position themselves for 2010 when Marcum and McGowan are back. If at all possible, I think they'll move BJ Ryan this year.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:36 AM on December 14, 2008
If I'm the Yankees, I do that deal in a second. Who cares if he only throws a total of three out of the five years? If he gets hurt too bad - you can try to go out and replace him, or if he wins a championship and then breaks down, no biggie - another free agent class will be around again.
The Key word being 'if'. Other than Boston and NY there's very few teams that are run that way.
They found out there are no sure things, no matter how highly touted prospects tend to be, so he's not about to let them do the same thing again.
Was Pavano a sure thing? Randy Johnson? Not making the playoffs and being NY I understand there's no time to wait. But giving prospects one year to pan out isn't enough time to make any verdict on their upside.
But the Yanks have to take this chance. Yankee haters all over the world can only dream of the enjoyment they'll get if these new signings should fail to pan out.
This isn't just a Yankees hater thing. I've read long time yankee fans question the signings. Just a couple:
ESPN is reporting that the Yankees have signed A.J. Burnett to a five-year deal worth $82.5 million dollars. I cannot help but react emotionally to this signing. It is an inexplicably awful, irresponsible, wrong-headed move. I hate hate hate it. It makes me physically sick. Combined with the New Stadium, it is enough for me to question my allegiance to this team. I cannot be consoled. I assume many of you feel the same way. Consider the comments of this post group therapy . . . link
The sentiment among baseball fans here in Florida is one of resentment toward the Yankees. I just recently golfed with a former network TV sports executive and a retired investment banker and both were appalled at the amount of money spent on Sabathia and Burnett, especially given the economy today. Both were embarrassed to say they were Yankees fans. They have indicated they hoped these signings would backfire on them. I don't know if they represent the masses or not. link
It's one thing for other fans to hate the yankees and red sox, but quite another when it comes from the teams fans.
posted by justgary at 12:58 PM on December 14, 2008
Regardless of who is commenting, if the Yankees don't sign either pitcher, they're stupid. If they do sign either (or both, as it turns out), they're stupid because they may get burned. What are their other options? They needed starting pitchers to be able to contend in the AL East, and they went out and got the two best available. If they both flame out and go on the DL in late March through mid August, then they still did what they had to do in an effort to be a factor this coming season. I can only imagine, though, if the Dodgers had managed to sign Sabathia. Everyone would have been saying what a tremendous move it was, how they are heading straight to the playoffs and possibly a World Series championship, etc. When it involves the Yankees and all the money they throw at a player, everyone (even Yankee writers) are shell-shocked because of freakin' Carl Pavano. Everyone needs to just step back and accept the fact these guys are all dealing with play money, because whether it's $1 Million or $161 Million, it's all fucking ridiculous. If you're truly paying these guys according to how much a particular person contributes to society, a fat guy who throws a little round ball to a guy holding a stick should actually make $25 bucks a game, not $25 bucks every quarter-second of the year like Sabathia. The guy's left arm could completely fall off in August and I won't feel a bit sorry for him.
posted by dyams at 08:04 PM on December 14, 2008
But the rotation as it stands now, with Sabathia, Burnett, Wang, Chamberlain, and possibly Pettitte (if they resign him) is a quality one
The rotation should be: Wang, Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte (if they resign him) and Chamberlain, IMO.
Wang is not only a proven commodity for the Yanks but he deserves to be their ace. Sabathia is also an ace but since Wang has the longest tenure between the two, he should be their #1 guy. As for Burnett, he should be the #3 or 4 guy considering he is at his best when not having to be the guy for the team he plays for and also considering he past injuries, he's more suited to be in the middle of the rotation.
Now that the Yanks have their pitching situated, it looks as they might now be after Manny Ramirez.
According to the Yanks, what depression?
posted by BornIcon at 11:13 AM on December 15, 2008
If you're truly paying these guys according to how much a particular person contributes to society, a fat guy who throws a little round ball to a guy holding a stick should actually make $25 bucks a game, not $25 bucks every quarter-second of the year like Sabathia.
That's not really my angle. I have no problem with players making as much as possible. They are the product and if owners are paying them the money then they obviously have it.
Not every fan is ok with spending without limits. There are yankee fans that now want Teixeira and Lowe signed. And why not? Signing every single big ticket free agent has got to lead to a championship, right?
There comes a point, and this includes the red sox, where it becomes ridiculous. Where it's no longer fun. The Yankees payroll was 50 million more than any other team last year. What if it was 100 million more? 150? Would winning be as fun? Would a championship really be impressive? For many yes, for me, no.
I don't know where the breaking point for me is, but I know there is one, where I really wouldn't care if the sox were winning. Reading around, there's some yankee fans that feel the same. But with both teams, those fans are going to be far outnumbered by fans that want to be able to celebrate a championship, regardless how they get there.
posted by justgary at 11:59 AM on December 15, 2008
Reading around, there's some yankee fans that feel the same
I sure would love to know where you're getting that info because I'm surrounded by Yankees fans and they're celebrating the fact that they picked up Sabathia and Burnett. Now, they're frothing at the mouth to hear that they might be after Man-Ram.
I live in the Tri-State area where the majority is Yankees fans and they are not saying anything about the Yanks spending as much as they can to reel in their next, big acquisition. They only care about the win-loss column.
posted by BornIcon at 12:24 PM on December 15, 2008
Yankee fans liked it when they spent money and were winning. Yankee fans didn't like it when they spent money and were losing. Now, take out the "spending money" part and you are left with Yankee fans liked it when they were winning. Yankee fans didn't like it when they were losing. What's so weird about that? I assume all fans feel that way, whoever they root for. Money has nothing to do with it.
posted by pullmyfinger at 12:44 PM on December 15, 2008
Money may not have everything to do with it from the fans perspective, but for the owners, money is the only thing. The Rays showed us that a championship team can be built with limited budgeting. The Yankees, year after year, seem to believe that spending the absolute most will pay off in performance. Sometimes it works and most times it doesn't. What has been pretty consistent is the buying power some teams have over others. I don't want to see CC or Burnett go down, unless that would be a way to finally curb these huge contracts.
posted by BoKnows at 01:00 PM on December 15, 2008
I sure would love to know where you're getting that info because I'm surrounded by Yankees fans and they're celebrating the fact that they picked up Sabathia and Burnett.
I already linked to two examples. Let me know how much more documentation you require.
Notice I also said that those fans would be far outnumbered.
posted by justgary at 01:09 PM on December 15, 2008
Dude, the Jays lose money. Rogers Corp. sees them as an investment that supports their other media endeavors, and the owner Ted Rogers (who died last week), was just a city booster kinda guy. It's not about a profit. Their local revenue - including tickets and TV - is collected in Canadian dollars.
The investment group of Rogers companies that includes the Blue Jays reported a 180 million dollar profit last year, despite the fact that magazine and newspaper sales are down.
posted by dfleming at 01:36 PM on December 15, 2008
Consider me a Yankee fan who really isn't all that overjoyed about the recent signings. I'm not angry or upset by them, but they just don't make me feel as good as signings several years ago did. A big part of it probably is the money thing. I try not to pay that much attention to it, and I really don't spend much time dwelling on it, but it's really not my idea of how a team should be built. While I'm glad the team's ownership is willing to spend money in an effort to put a winner on the field, I definitely don't find myself jumping up and down. What gets to me is that now, more than ever, people who hate the Yankees will bash them endlessly should the upcoming season end with anything less than a World Series championship. And as much as I respect Manny Ramirez as one of the best all-around hitters in recent baseball history, I really don't want him in pinstripes. He's the T.O. of baseball: You'll get a good season from him, but after that, he'll start problems. And besides, when will it end? Damon a Yankee. Pedro a Met. Manny a Yankee? The baseball world isn't ready for that.
posted by dyams at 04:55 PM on December 15, 2008
It's a big company that provides digital cable and cell phone service for half the country. The Jays have been in the red for years.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:41 PM on December 15, 2008
To Weedy - how do you know they lose money on the Jays? I have checked their financial statements online and they don't break down baseball operations. The reports just reflect total revenues, expenses etc. for Rogers Communications as a whole. I am interested in seeing the details behind these numbers to look at their results from baseball operations. Can you direct me to a specific site where you saw the data? Thanx.
posted by pullmyfinger at 11:39 AM on December 17, 2008
"In his recent autobiography, Rogers claimed to have lost $300-million on the team since taking it over, a figure disputed by some as exaggerated.
But it is accepted that the team is a money-losing operation, leading to questions about the owner's death changing the franchise's direction."
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 05:28 PM on December 18, 2008
Thank you Weedy. Very interesting link. Be well, and have a Great Christmas and New Year.
posted by pullmyfinger at 06:53 PM on December 18, 2008
Some interesting stats per forbes.com. Shows net operating income for 2007. Yankees -$47.3 million Red Sox -$19.1 Jays -$ 1.8 Tigers +$ 4.6 Nationals+$43.7
Basically, only the Yankees, Red Sox and Jays lost money in 2007. As for the rest of the teams, the Tigers at $4.6 million made the least profit. The Nationals made the most (go figure).
Also, the current (as of 2007) market value of the Jays was $352 million. Rogers Communications paid $160 million in the year 2000 and could sell the team for $352 million. I wouldn't exactly say that Rogers Communications has lost money by owning the team.
posted by pullmyfinger at 11:10 AM on December 19, 2008
Some places are reporting it's worth 160 million.
It seems like another one of those contracts that is brilliant on the front end but will haunt them in years 4-7. Sabathia's got weight issues and it's going to wear him down eventually.