September 17, 2007

Yahoo! Fantasy NHL Pool is in business!: As a follow-up to the comment buried six threads down, our annual rotisserie league is up & running. Details within.

posted by chicobangs to fantasy at 02:04 PM - 125 comments

We have a permanent SpoFi page now, so bookmark that one if you're the bookmarking type, and sign up now if you're the signing-up type: League ID: 40206 Password: grapes The live draft is set for this Friday, September 21, at 6:30pm EDT (3:30pmPDT, or 12:30pm in Hawaii). If you can't make it, set your draft preferences in advance. It's amazing how good that draft picker can be. Oh, and do me a favor: announce who you are in this thread. You don't have to have a thousand comments to your name to play, but I think it's best if you are active and will stick with the league through next spring. Let's talk about stats: Game Winning Goals? Saves? Save Pct? aye, nay, something else? Balance is key, and I'm willing to fiddle with things if there's a consensus. Love, your commissioner. PS - Ciccone Youth is totally gonna finish in the first division this year, dammit.

posted by chicobangs at 02:07 PM on September 17, 2007

And yes, there is room for new people to jump in. Now the MrFrisby has his rightful place in the pool after graciously giving his spot up last year, everyone else is welcome.

posted by chicobangs at 03:29 PM on September 17, 2007

BhawksDown and I hope we can add Goalie Shut Outs somehow to the point system! Finished 4th my rookie year and looking to win this thing outright in year two! That is All..........

posted by skydivedad at 04:26 PM on September 17, 2007

This is just an idea, but what about throwing out SHP, and splitting PP points between goals and assists?

posted by garfield at 04:57 PM on September 17, 2007

I don't think GWG and SHG are worth keeping around. I do like dad's idea about shutouts, though. Didn't we play that as a stat last year? I was in three different ones last year, and it's hard to keep track of which was which.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 05:18 PM on September 17, 2007

I'm fine with throwing out GWG or SHP, but the goalies have a disproportionate number of stats already. So if SHP goes, I'd want to get rid of Save% as well. (It's as much a reflection of the defense as the goalie, while Saves are goalie-specific, and reward extra work.) But I'm fine with shutouts as well. It's something to pull for in otherwise meaningless games, and they're not as ubiquitous as they used to be. I like more stats rather than less, just because more stats gives more options by which to choose players. But I'd be willing to ditch, say, GWG and Save%.

posted by chicobangs at 05:22 PM on September 17, 2007

I'm in as "Pulling The Goalie"..... Because it's a euphemism for masturbation! Get it!..... (cough) I don't care what we pick anymore. I'm not a huge fan of save% and GWG or shooting% - but that's me. I also think +/- is overrated.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:36 PM on September 17, 2007

OK, Just for discussion here are my preferred stats for ROTO Play. G, A, +/-, PPP, PIM, FOW, W, SV, SO, GAA but I'm kewl with whatever you guys decide just decide soon so I can plan my draft accordingly. It's only 3 days and counting until our draft. ...........

posted by skydivedad at 10:10 AM on September 18, 2007

Oh, How about adding a couple of Bench Players?

posted by skydivedad at 10:16 AM on September 18, 2007

Oh, How about adding a couple of Bench Players? i'd rather have another IR.

posted by goddam at 10:35 AM on September 18, 2007

Yeah, only 1 IR really screwed me last year in the FPS league. I wouldn't mind seeing one more BN & IR. Stats, I vote for dissing GWG and splitting PPP into PPG and PPA.

posted by MrFrisby at 11:03 AM on September 18, 2007

Also, I wouldn't oppose a FW category.

posted by MrFrisby at 11:12 AM on September 18, 2007

I'm not even participating, but I want to discuss skydivedad's proposed stats. They all seem fine to me, except that they're too weighted towards goaltenders: 4 goalie stats to 6 offensive stats puts a lot of pressure on your goalies, and we know from previous years that there is a serious dearth of goalies with 20 teams wanting to carry 3 or more keepers each. A possible fix would be to have a single goalie slot per team instead of two, which we've discussed a couple of times before, but never acted upon.

posted by qbert72 at 12:00 PM on September 18, 2007

qbert I didn't know you aren't participating. The league will certainly miss your presence and be poorer for it. In a deeper league with 20 teams your probably correct about the Goalie Stat weighing but rather than cut a goalie slot we should consider adding a couple of offensive categories. Keep SHG or GWG but not both and break up PPP into PPG and PPA. That would lower the % of goalie stats in the overall scoring. I like the Premium placed on Goalie Slots in deep leagues with 2 active goalie slots and it can compel some interesting trades and adds a layer of difficulty come draft time. So my new list looks like this........ G, A, +/-, PPG, PPA, PIM, FOW, (SHP or GWG), W, S, SO, GAA This lowers the weighting of goalie stats to 33% versus 40%. Last Years for the record was 36% Goalie Stats weighting......

posted by skydivedad at 12:18 PM on September 18, 2007

No Q? Quel fromage! I demand an explanation! You're not going on a hockey road trip, are you?

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:19 PM on September 18, 2007

seriously Q, that ain't right. SDD, I like that arrangement, leaning toward GWG, as they are less random than SHP. unless of course there is another couple skater categories to pick from. fwiw, I've already drafted in another league, and the bug is almost instantaneous. Once you've picked one player, you won't have free time until next June.

posted by garfield at 12:41 PM on September 18, 2007

Alright. Two things. One, There are still a few open slots. If you haven't signed up yet, now's a good time. Two, we'll decide on the stats by the end of today, as people have to plan their lists out. Now. 1. Splitting PPG and PPA but including them both is exactly the same thing as including just PPP. You can't get both a goal and an assist on the same goal, so there's no point in splitting them up unless you want to give one more weight (for ex: using PPP and PPG. That could work, maybe). 2. There has to be some shortness of bench. Every team has to occasionally make a hard decision over the course of the year. I could see adding a second IR slot, but the BN space is not going up. 3. If we cut the goalie count to one, then wouldn't that separate the gap between the haves and have-nots even more? I think we pretty much have to keep it at two, just to give everyone a shot at having decent stats. With one goalie slot, if you don't choose in the top half dozen slots, you're pretty much praying for someone to have a monster year and that's it. Or rather, what skydivedad said. 4. There is no Item 4. 5. I'd lean GWG over SHP, but I don't have a strong feeling either way. I think one of them should be included, though. And FOW is an interesting idea. I'm not crazy about the stat, but it's not without merit. Let's hammer down what the stats are by tonight. We're getting close, and we have rosters to pick.

posted by chicobangs at 12:53 PM on September 18, 2007

a taste is all it takes

posted by garfield at 12:53 PM on September 18, 2007

No Q? Quel fromage! I demand an explanation! I need a break from fantasy sports. Between baseball and hockey, it's been non-stop for over four years now. And my baseball keeper league is very intense (we traded Carlos Marmol three times (between four managers) in the (road trip) car on deadline day, for crying out loud!), so a time to rest will be welcome. With one goalie slot, if you don't choose in the top half dozen slots, you're pretty much praying for someone to have a monster year and that's it. I don't know. That's pretty much the way it works with the two slots anyway, and with 82 games to fill at G, you couldn't get away with just one goalie, so you can get creative and carry an array of productive backups, for example. And you have to choose which of your goalies to play on a busy day, since there can only be one. But I'm leaving this decision to you guys.

posted by qbert72 at 01:07 PM on September 18, 2007

chico Splitting PPP into PPA and PPG opens the draft to more D'men who accure PPA but not many PPG. (The vast majority of 2nd tier NHL D'men) but your idea of PPP and PPG has alot of merit especially to maintain a competitive scoring balance within the league. I'm with you and garfield on GWG over SHP. I really hope this league decides to choose the FOW Stat as it allows teams to choose and use the ever abundant centerman position. That would be a plus in a deep league like ours. Centermen like Perrault or Draper who wouldn't be considered if we just concentrated on scoring stats, they become valuable and can add compelling complexity to draft day and trades. Yea, OK on the Bench Position. I pretty much knew that wasn't gonna happen but I thought I'd give it a hearing. :) Thanks chico for wrapping this thing up and I look forward to your leadership making this league as exciting and challenging as any I'm involved with. (7 leagues last year)

posted by skydivedad at 01:11 PM on September 18, 2007

Splitting PPG and PPA but including them both is exactly the same thing as including just PPP. Not really -- the difference is that PPP becomes worth a maximum of 40 points (and a minimum of 2) rather than a maximum of 20 (and a minimum of 1). It doubles the total value of PPP. Personally, I don't like the idea of making PPP more valuable than regular old goals and assists. I'd rather see a Points category added to G and A to double their value against the other categories. Alternatively, we could use Yahoo's "fantasy point scoring" which allows for weighting of particular categories (e.g. a goal counts for two points, an assist one point, and penalty minute 1.5 points, etc.). That way we could use as many or as few categories as we want and still maintain a balance that puts offense ahead of goalie points.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 01:12 PM on September 18, 2007

crafty We have a separate Yahoo Fantasy Points System League. I was going to run it again this year same as last however I will not set it up until this league is closed to teams. 7 Slots left........ We enjoyed that league format last year but........... This league is strictly ROTO and the Yahoo Fantasy Point Scoring System plays nothing like a ROTO format as the points accumulate and it lacks the fluidity and depth of intrigue the ROTO Format excels at providing. I like your idea about the G and A stats make a suggestion.

posted by skydivedad at 01:21 PM on September 18, 2007

Upon review I see the only other offensive stats available in the ROTO format are SOG or Shooting%. Given a choice I'd prefer the SOG if we feel it's necessary to add another G and A enhancement stat.

posted by skydivedad at 01:38 PM on September 18, 2007

Thanks, SDD. I didn't realize at the time that the fantasy points scoring was an entirely different league style -- I thought it was a manipulation of the Roto category format. In other words, I thought finishing first in goals would give you 40 points while finishing first in assists would give you 20 and finishing first in PIM would give you 30, using my parenthetical example above. What I wrote -- as I copied from the Yahoo site -- didn't reflect what I was thinking I was writing, hence my confusion. In any case, they should have that option available. So, I guess my suggestion is keep PPP without splitting or adding other PP categories and add Points as a category. And anything else that makes Andy McDonald more valuable.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 01:42 PM on September 18, 2007

Yeah, there isn't a whole lot else we can put in there. Having PPP and PPG means that a power play goal counts in three categories, a power play assist in two, and an even strength point of any kind counts as one. That's a lot of weight on power play goals, but it could work that way. (If we add Points, all these variations go up by one. I'd say to go with either PPP/PPG or Points/G/A, but not both.) I'm with you, dad. I prefer FOW to SOG, as it gives a little strength to the less offensive-minded players in the draft. All the other stats involve getting the puck to the net, and it'd be good to have a stat that's about some other aspect of the game. Now with the goalies, do we want to lose, say, Save%? It's more a reflection of team defense than the goalie himself, and that would take some weight off the goalie picks. I'm just asking.

posted by chicobangs at 01:48 PM on September 18, 2007

(I have to admit, there's a part of me that wants to just throw all the stats up on the board all at once. Fuck it, everything counts triple! It's your birthday! Goons, puck-hogs & cherry pickers all half-price!)

posted by chicobangs at 01:54 PM on September 18, 2007

Yahoo! needs more stats to choose from, like FM (fighting majors), and splitting assists into 1A (first assists) and 2A (2nd assists). And while I'm on this tangent, goalie assists need to count towards assist totals too.

posted by MrFrisby at 01:59 PM on September 18, 2007

good point about a PPG counting in multiple categories. Just to clarify, I was thinking PPP would be replaced by PPG and PPA, so a PPG would be two categories, kinda like GWG.

posted by garfield at 02:00 PM on September 18, 2007

Adding Points at 1st glance seems redundant as it rewards a Goal Scored twice to our scoring system. That's why I'd prefer SOG or Shooting% if we want to increase the scoring weighting within our system. Of the 2 SOG seems more logical because it gives more weight to players that can score. Alex Tanguey had a higher Shooting % (20.6%) than Ovechkin (11.7&) last year but took only 107 Shoots to Ovechkins 392. Anyway, here's my revised stats list. G, A, +/-, PPP, PPG, SOG, FOW, PIM, W, S, SO, GAA

posted by skydivedad at 02:01 PM on September 18, 2007

My apologies for blantantly hacking this thread, but at the moment the H2H league only has five teams with the draft on Saturday. Feel free to sign up even if you're in the roto league as well, we'd love to have you. /derail>

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:09 PM on September 18, 2007

Oh, it would be nice if Gary could put up a link on the FP so we could finishing filling the H2H and ROTO leagues.

posted by skydivedad at 02:10 PM on September 18, 2007

Adding Points at 1st glance seems redundant as it rewards a Goal Scored twice to our scoring system. As Chico rightly noted, PPP has a similar effect. Adding Points as a category would change the weight put on PPP relative to regular old even-up G and A from 2:1 to 3:2. How much more valuable is a PPP than a regular point? In hockey reality, they're equivalent -- a goal is a goal is a goal. Making PPP twice as important seems kinda arbitrary. This is not me pushing really hard for Points so much as I am clarifying why I even brought it up. In the end there's a really good chance that the Robin Goodfellows are going to get pounded regardless of the categories used. On edit: I also like FOW more than SOG for the reasons Chico stated.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 02:24 PM on September 18, 2007

I say we go with G, PIM (hello Jarome Iginla!!). Or we go with G, A, PPP, PIM, W, S, SO, GAA. Normally, I wouldn't want to give so many stats to the goalie, but shutouts aren't the most common thing in the world, so they MUST be rewarded. Wins, Saves and GAA are must haves to correctly gauge any goalie, so they gotta stay as well. The other stats seem to reward forwards and d-men equally. I hate the +/- category. Anywho, just my two cents. AGNP

posted by NoMich at 02:38 PM on September 18, 2007

I think it's important to separate Goals and Assists but can live without PPG and PPA but PPP in some form is important to add weight to the D'men position. After rereading this thread and considering all arguements I propose the following Stats...... G, A, +/-, PPP, SOG, FOW, PIM, Shooting%, W, S, SO, GAA......... Any 2nds....... or other suggested stats list?

posted by skydivedad at 02:44 PM on September 18, 2007

Oh Crap! Wrong List............ Here's my final ....... G, A, +/-, PPP, SOG, GWG, PIM, FOW, W, S, SO, GAA.......... This keeps the 66% versus 33% weighting for Goalie vs. Scoring Stats. Sorry for the confusion........

posted by skydivedad at 02:53 PM on September 18, 2007

I don't think SOG and Shooting% are both necessary, and Shooting% gets covered relatively cleanly in the points categories anyways. How about this? 8 skater categories: G - A - +/- - PIM - PPP - GWG - SOG - FOW 4 goalie categories: W - GAA - Saves - Shutouts On edit: I don't wanna speak out of turn, but I believe Skydivedad's list is the same as this one! Shall we put this to a vote? Yea? Nay?

posted by chicobangs at 02:56 PM on September 18, 2007

That's a winner for me Mr. Bangs........

posted by skydivedad at 02:59 PM on September 18, 2007

Skaters: G, A +/-, PIM, PPP, GWG, FOW Goalies: W, GAA, S, SO

posted by NoMich at 03:04 PM on September 18, 2007

done. now i have to find some point producers who actually can win a face off. not many of those.

posted by garfield at 03:08 PM on September 18, 2007

Wow. FOW? I fail to see how this is relevant. Who gives a shit? Now Rod Brind'Amour - despite the fact that he's on the ass-end of his career is as valuable as Dany Heatley - because Heatley doesn't take face offs and can't contribute to a whole category. I'm sorry - but that's the very definition of retarded. Were it up to me, I'd keep it simple: G,A,PPP,PIMS,+/- and W, SHO, Saves. That's two 'wildcards' per side, roughly the same 40%/60% split and none of this crap about useless percentages. Fantasy hockey that manages to stat-ify to the point that Crosby isn't your highest rated skater and Brodeur isn't your highest rated goalie are WRONG ABOUT THE SPORT they're fantasizing about.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:26 PM on September 18, 2007

I thought you didn't care about the categories, Weedy? (I'm in total agreement with you, though.) goalie assists need to count towards assist totals too Goalie PIMs should count, which would make Ray Emery a total stud. (Not that he isn't already one.)

posted by qbert72 at 03:36 PM on September 18, 2007

Aside (not to be confused with an argument for removal): why does fantasy hockey not reward PIM in reverse? When is it a measure of success to accumulate the most penalty minutes? I've never watched a game and said, "YES! A penalty against our side! Putting them on the power play is EXACTLY where we want them!" Penalty minutes killed would be a good stat.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 03:38 PM on September 18, 2007

For what it's worth, Weedy, I'm with you on the stats; simpler is better. I kept FOW just to compromise with the commish. Quick aside: I don't understand the shot at Brindy. He scored over 30 goals last year and his point total was the fifth highest of his 15 year career.

posted by NoMich at 03:41 PM on September 18, 2007

You ever get so confused about how many teams you've got and where they're at that you sign up for the same league twice? Yeah, me neither. Pullet Tartare is not going to straight up murder anybody's ass. Not in this league, anyway. Blades of Glory, on the other hand, is gonna give it the ol' college try. By the way, chico, thanks for putting the whole deal together! You freakin' rule! I can only hope that sucking up to the commissioner becomes a stat category.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:48 PM on September 18, 2007

Dany Heatley will get his 100 points and even with Face Off thrown in is still worth tons more in this league then Brind'amor ever will be. As for Broduer I have Luongo and Kippa rated over him this year anyway. Face offs are an important part of the game but I can live just fine without that stat included.

posted by skydivedad at 03:51 PM on September 18, 2007

Weedy, I would imagine Crosby and Brodeur, since you named those two, are not falling very far down anyone's list. But I'm not concerned about the top 5 skaters or the top 5 goalies. I'm thinking about the fourth and fifth and seventh rounds, when all the goal scorers are gone and everyone's going to be standing around wondering what the hell to look at next. You talk about Dany Heatley not winning many faceoffs, but you know, I somehow doubt he's going to wind up being Mr. Irrelevant in the draft this year. FOWs tend to be play-starter types. That's the closest thing to a measurable stat for players like that that there is. And 40/60 Goalie/Skater stats has been a a ratio with which people have been very unhappy for years. And we can only use stats they actually have. Penalty kills would be great. Find a way to measure them, and we can graft it on to Yahoo's scoring every week. Less is more is a wonderful idea, but there's more to the sport than just standing in front of the net and banging a puck home, and we have to maintain a balance with that in mind. And 12 categories isn't exactly Bill James territory here. Love, Your Retarded Commissioner.

posted by chicobangs at 03:56 PM on September 18, 2007

I've never watched a game and said, "YES! A penalty against our side! Putting them on the power play is EXACTLY where we want them!" Then you must have missed the St.Louis-Columbus game last year. I'm fine with whatever stats, I just hate the GWG even more than +/-. If a team starts off with a 4-0 lead after 1, then the GWG could go to anybody depending on how many goals they allow in the following 40 minutes. It's a total luck thing and it makes the goals scored before it sound less important. Other leagues note: I'm already in three H2H leagues so I will refrain from joining the SpoFi one, but I'm all for a FPS league.

posted by MrFrisby at 04:07 PM on September 18, 2007

Wow That was quick! Your awesome justgary. Thanks for the FP Link.......

posted by skydivedad at 04:11 PM on September 18, 2007

Yeah, Gary, thanks for the front pager. I was under the impression that they had changed the official stat so that GWG went to whoever scored the goal to put the winning team ahead, regardless of what happened afterward. If I'm wrong, then we could swap it out for, say, SHG. I think I'd like to keep the stat breakdown at 8/4 if at all possible. This is a very useful discussion. We've danced around this argument every year I've been involved. I sense we might reach something resembling a consensus this year, which would be fantastic. (Weedy, if you can demonstrate how Sidney Crosby would drop out of the Top Ten with the categories as proposed, then I'd love to hear that.) Honestly, I think we're going to be alright.

posted by chicobangs at 04:58 PM on September 18, 2007

I was under the impression that they had changed the official stat so that GWG went to whoever scored the goal to put the winning team ahead, regardless of what happened afterward. Come on Senior Bangs, I know you know what I mean. Let's say in my hypothetic game that Parise scores the first goal, Gionta the second, Zubrus the third and Madden the fourth. If the game ends there, Parise gets the GW. However, if say in the 2nd period Sundin scores, the score is now 4-1 and the GW goes to Gionta. If later Kaberle scores and the game is now 4-2, the GW now goes to Zubrus. See where I am going?

posted by MrFrisby at 05:19 PM on September 18, 2007

I saw exactly where you were going, and that was why I said "regardless of what happened afterward." As in: In your example, Parise would now get the GWG, regardless of what happened afterward. I'll repeat, if that's not the case, and I'm looking for proof one way or the other right now, but if not, then we have the option to swap GWG out for something else. I'm fine with changing it or not, but my only request is that we have a resolution on this by tonight, because the draft is nigh.

posted by chicobangs at 05:30 PM on September 18, 2007

Oh well, at least if the game is won in a shootout, nobody gets a GWG.

posted by MrFrisby at 05:30 PM on September 18, 2007

Not get off topic or anything, but where the hell is...?

posted by MrFrisby at 06:06 PM on September 18, 2007

It's more a matter of GWG or SHP....... I lean toward GWG for the reasons we discussed earlier in the thread..... and we should bum rush wingnuts email address with invites...

posted by skydivedad at 06:07 PM on September 18, 2007

As someone who has taken advantage of the unbalanced stats before (when I ran roughshod over everyone two years in a row due to drafting strong goalies early), you definitely don't want to give goalies more than 1/3 of the categories. 8/4 split is good enough. Anything less (7/4 or 6/4) and you give the cads an opportunity to exploit it. I think the categories should be an even mix of counting and rate stats. From chicobang's list above you have zero rate stats for the forwards/defencemen and only one (GAA) for the goalies. The winning strategy is simply to max out your playing time at every position. Shooting percentage is a good stat to use as it works well with the goals stat. Face off percentage might be a better stat than face offs won. Is points-per-game available, where they take the player's points, divide it by their minutes played and then mulitply it by 60?

posted by grum@work at 06:56 PM on September 18, 2007

Hmmm, that's a good point. Shooting percentage is the only rate statistic for skaters on the board. Faceoffs are #won/lost only, and there are no Points-per-game listed. It's not a big list. My only gripe about Shooting Percentage was that it seemed a little arbitrary, but you make a valid point.

posted by chicobangs at 07:40 PM on September 18, 2007

Rate stats are for baseball. Hockey only has GAA, which is as much a team factor than an individual one. Note that GWG and +/- also involve an evaluation of a team as a whole, and I see nothing wrong with that for a few categories. That is to say I like GAA. Everyone should be encouraged to max out their playing time at every position, there's nothing wrong with that. And if Samsononov14 were here, he'd tell you all: shooting percentage sucks. To clarify my previous statement, I am in agreement with Weedy's opinion, not the way he voices it. I wouldn't want my kid to ask him an autograph.

posted by qbert72 at 11:32 PM on September 18, 2007

Q, seriously, you should consider coming back. Your "break" should come during the baseball season -- hockey didn't take your sport out of town. I promise you won't spend a moment worrying about Carlos Marmol. And Sammy should be in here, too. Having come back in time and all.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:06 AM on September 19, 2007

Q, seriously, you should consider coming back. I'm considering it almost every waking hour. I. Must. Resist.

posted by qbert72 at 12:32 AM on September 19, 2007

Resistance is futile.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:25 AM on September 19, 2007

Well since there still seemed to be space available I signed up with Sons of Mama and you should all be happy about that because I really suck at roto and I am one more person you all can finish ahead of. *I am really hoping reverse psychology works in this case.

posted by skydivemom at 01:10 PM on September 19, 2007

It's not reverse psychology you need, it's reverse managing that does the trick. Yeah, that's the ticket.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 05:31 PM on September 19, 2007

I'm gonna do both. The Flin Flon Flops will surely live up to their namesake. I am at the mercy of the auto drafter once again.

posted by HATER 187 at 05:36 PM on September 19, 2007

Everyone should be encouraged to max out their playing time at every position, there's nothing wrong with that. Well, obviously you want to max out your playing time, but you could actually HURT your team if you have a bad goalie getting too many starts (GAA sucks). If Shooting% is the only rate stat, then it might be best to use it, just to reward quality shooters instead of quantity shooters.

posted by grum@work at 06:00 PM on September 19, 2007

There's still some slots available gang. Join us as we attempt to dethrone the Reigning Champion, our "King of the Ring" the "Big Skate" himself, the man who says "Jagr is a Tranny", SportsFilters very own WeedyMcSmokey.......... Hurry the draft is this evening (Friday Sept. 21). Good Luck in the draft and stay tuned as we handicap each squads chances following this evenings draft.

posted by skydivedad at 09:03 AM on September 21, 2007

Sorry, I've been away from the computer for a couple of days, but now I'm home. Draft's in two hours. I'm stoked. (There are still slots available if you want to jump in.)

posted by chicobangs at 03:32 PM on September 21, 2007

Well, that worked out okay, I think. I only drafted one retired guy, and everyone else has two arms (except for maybe Sami Salo), so I'm already ahead of last year. At first look, I like chris2sy's & Skydivemom's teams. Lots of evenness top to bottom, and Mama's wingers are really going to produce.

posted by chicobangs at 06:59 PM on September 21, 2007

My team sucks ....... Drafting last 2 years in a row in this league really sucks. I like chico's squad to win it all with Skydivemom, Grum, Weedy and BullPenPro also in the running. Hell I like everyones squad but mine..........

posted by skydivedad at 07:50 PM on September 21, 2007

The Spacemen look dangerous to me. Sdm, Elias AND Gionta? It's a gamble, but one that could very well payoff. Concussion Central doesn't look good in the goalie department, but looks very good on offense. I didn't like my team at first, but the more I look at it, the more I think I have a chance not to finish dead last.

posted by MrFrisby at 08:28 PM on September 21, 2007

All day long I'd been looking forward to this draft, but at 4:00, some of my co-workers shut off my computer and dragged me off for some beers. Those bastards!! All things considered, though, my team ain't too bad. If I don't end up in last place, I'll consider it some sort of victory.

posted by NoMich at 08:44 PM on September 21, 2007

Elias AND Gionta? It's a gamble, but one that could very well payoff Well it really wasn't something that was done on purpose so I am really hoping it does payoff!

posted by skydivemom at 09:28 PM on September 21, 2007

damn you chico. the one player i bothered to move around on my auto-draft list and you took him in second round before me.

posted by goddam at 12:29 AM on September 22, 2007

Well, you stole my fantasy boyfriend Rick Nash from me, and I had to settle for Vyborny, you scheming Jezebel!

posted by chicobangs at 12:29 PM on September 22, 2007

I got two goalies who will see some action this year, unlike last year when the fucking autodraft left me with The Billion Dollar man and Sean Burke.

posted by HATER 187 at 12:46 PM on September 22, 2007

Well, you stole my fantasy boyfriend Rick Nash from me i think i stoled him from you again today.

posted by goddam at 01:10 PM on September 22, 2007

No, dreamland stoled him from me today. You, my dear, were just the Agent Of Dreams.

posted by chicobangs at 01:52 PM on September 22, 2007

I apologize to all in advance - I spent two hours organizing my autodraft and apparently none of it got saved since I had no goalies. I had to trade Heatley to BPP for Nabokov. I had not choice. His team looks awesome now. Then, Dan Boyle cuts his freaking wrist on a skate blade in the dressing room and is out for a month and a half.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:52 AM on September 24, 2007

His team looks awesome now We're all in trouble if Selanne decides to play this season....... yish....... Points League is open. Draft on Weds.

posted by skydivedad at 11:14 AM on September 24, 2007

I'd bet Selanne comes back. He had his best season in years, obviously has alot left in the tank, and gets the chance to play with some of the best young players in the game. Niedermayer, I'm not so sure about. Chico is going to take the goalie stats. Kipper and Hank on the same team. Yipes!

posted by garfield at 02:55 PM on September 24, 2007

Can anyone post the draft results for us outsiders to see?

posted by qbert72 at 03:51 PM on September 24, 2007

Chico is going to take the goalie stats. Not to toot my own horn, but I am rocking Marty B and Blackstrom. Marty should be good for his usual 70 starts and with Manny out of Minn. Blackstrom should be getting lots and lots of minutes.

posted by HATER 187 at 10:28 PM on September 24, 2007

true enough. somebody's got luongo and hasek too, i think. I'm just guessing the devils and minny will finish worse than last year, and hasek is due for some melodrama. I do know for certain I don't have a hope in hell in any of the G categories. q, do you want those by round or team?

posted by garfield at 08:20 AM on September 25, 2007

Robin Goodfellows (bullpenpro/craftysousepaw) 1. (1) Sidney Crosby 2. (30) Nicklas Lidstrom 3. (31) Evgeni Nabokov 4. (60) Alexander Semin 5. (61) Ryan Miller 6. (90) Tomas Kaberle 7. (91) Peter Budaj 8. (120) Kimmo Timonen 9. (121) Brian Campbell 10. (150) Martin Straka 11. (151) Teemu Selanne 12. (180) Francois Beauchemin 13. (181) Dan Hamhuis 14. (210) Ladislav Nagy 15. (211) Lee Stempniak Pulling The Goalie (weedy) 1. (2) Dany Heatley 2. (29) Daniel Sedin 3. (32) Daniel Briere 4. (59) Sheldon Souray 5. (62) Dan Boyle 6. (89) Justin Williams 7. (92) Ryan Getzlaf 8. (119) Brenden Morrow 9. (122) John-Michael Liles 10. (149) Marek Zidlicky 11. (152) Stephen Valiquette 12. (179) Carey Price 13. (182) Matthew Lombardi 14. (209) Fredrik Modin 15. (212) Jere Lehtinen 40 Years Futile (mkn) 1. (3) Roberto Luongo 2. (28) Dominik Hasek 3. (33) Ryan Whitney 4. (58) Pavol Demitra 5. (63) Paul Stastny 6. (88) Steve Sullivan 7. (93) Patrice Bergeron 8. (118) Ray Whitney 9. (123) Chris Kunitz 10. (148) Andrei Markov 11. (153) Ron Hainsey 12. (178) Barret Jackman 13. (183) Mike Modano 14. (208) Scott Walker 15. (213) Dustin Brown Max 20 Characters (darth vader) 1. (4) Joe Thornton 2. (27) Chris Pronger 3. (34) Marty Turco 4. (57) Lubomir Visnovsky 5. (64) Kari Lehtonen 6. (87) Corey Perry 7. (94) Markus Naslund 8. (117) Paul Kariya 9. (124) Anze Kopitar 10. (147) Tom Preissing 11. (154) Wojtek Wolski 12. (177) Robyn Regehr 13. (184) Jonathan Bernier 14. (207) Mikko Koivu 15. (214) Marek Svatos The Christ Punchers (chris2sy) 1. (5) Marian Gaborik 2. (26) Brian Rolston 3. (35) Tomas Vokoun 4. (56) Rick DiPietro 5. (65) Alex Tanguay 6. (86) Jason Blake 7. (95) Daymond Langkow 8. (116) Scott Gomez 9. (125) Rob Blake 10. (146) Paul Mara 11. (155) Mike Commodore 12. (176) Brent Seabrook 13. (185) David Legwand 14. (206) Nikolai Zherdev 15. (215) Jussi Jokinen Blades of Glory (The_Black_Hand) 1. (6) Alexander Ovechkin 2. (25) Martin Havlat 3. (36) Brad Richards 4. (55) Ray Emery 5. (66) Cam Ward 6. (85) Philippe Boucher 7. (96) Michael Nylander 8. (115) Johan Holmqvist 9. (126) Joe Corvo 10. (145) Martin Erat 11. (156) Scott Hartnell 12. (175) Bryan Allen 13. (186) Craig Rivet 14. (205) Kurtis Foster 15. (216) Christoph Schubert The Flin Flon Flops (HATER 187) 1. (7) Martin Brodeur 2. (24) Niklas Backstrom 3. (37) Olli Jokinen 4. (54) Dion Phaneuf 5. (67) Simon Gagne 6. (84) Zdeno Chara 7. (97) Sergei Zubov 8. (114) Tom Poti 9. (127) Jonathan Toews 10. (144) Mark Recchi 11. (157) Jamie Langenbrunner 12. (174) Cory Stillman 13. (187) Brad Boyes 14. (204) Ales Hemsky 15. (217) Alexei Ponikarovsky Spacemen (jasonspaceman) 1. (8) Jarome Iginla 2. (23) Pavel Datsyuk 3. (38) Maxim Afinogenov 4. (53) Kristian Huselius 5. (68) Slava Kozlov 6. (83) Eric Staal 7. (98) Olaf Kolzig 8. (113) Cristobal Huet 9. (128) Shea Weber 10. (143) Brett Clark 11. (158) Roman Hamrlik 12. (173) Sean Hill 13. (188) Dustin Penner 14. (203) Mike Comrie 15. (218) Gary Roberts Sons of Mama (skydivemom) 1. (9) Henrik Zetterberg 2. (22) Ilya Kovalchuk 3. (39) Chris Mason 4. (52) Andy McDonald 5. (69) Brian Gionta 6. (82) Mathieu Schneider 7. (99) Patrik Elias 8. (112) Manny Fernandez 9. (129) Darcy Tucker 10. (142) Adrian Aucoin 11. (159) Mattias Ohlund 12. (172) Shane O'Brien 13. (189) Jason Arnott 14. (202) Chris Neil 15. (219) Jiri Hudler Grumbait (maddog) 1. (10) Evgeni Malkin 2. (21) Martin St. Louis 3. (40) Marc Savard 4. (51) Milan Michalek 5. (70) Rick Nash 6. (81) Bryan McCabe 7. (100) Martin Biron 8. (111) Kevin Bieksa 9. (130) Nicklas Backstrom 10. (141) Fredrik Norrena 11. (160) Joni Pitkanen 12. (171) Brendan Witt 13. (190) Mike Fisher 14. (201) Mike Knuble 15. (220) Martin Gelinas Ciccone Youth (chico'welcomeback'bangs) 1. (11) Miikka Kiprusoff 2. (20) Henrik Lundqvist 3. (41) Patrick Marleau 4. (50) Scott Niedermayer 5. (71) Derek Roy 6. (80) Brendan Shanahan 7. (101) Shane Doan 8. (110) Erik Cole 9. (131) David Vyborny 10. (140) Christian Ehrhoff 11. (161) Sami Salo 12. (170) Chris Phillips 13. (191) Kyle Wellwood 14. (200) Jose Theodore 15. (221) Mikael Samuelsson Iorek Byrnison (thematador666) 1. (12) Marian Hossa 2. (19) Daniel Alfredsson 3. (42) Joe Sakic 4. (49) Sergei Gonchar 5. (72) Keith Tkachuk 6. (79) Michael Cammalleri 7. (102) Nikolai Khabibulin 8. (109) Manny Legace 9. (132) Sean Avery 10. (139) Marc-Andre Bergeron 11. (162) Andrej Meszaros 12. (169) Ruslan Salei 13. (192) Petr Sykora 14. (199) Glen Murray 15. (222) Marco Sturm Kentucky Cruisers (MrFrisby) 1. (13) Vincent Lecavalier 2. (18) Jonathan Cheechoo 3. (43) Marc-Andre Fleury 4. (48) Henrik Sedin 5. (73) Matt Carle 6. (78) Zach Parise 7. (103) Vesa Toskala 8. (108) Wade Redden 9. (133) Alexander Radulov 10. (138) Tomas Holmstrom 11. (163) Jaroslav Spacek 12. (168) Anton Volchenkov 13. (193) J.P. Dumont 14. (198) Mike Ribeiro 15. (223) Wade Dubielewicz Phatcat HC (garfield) 1. (14) Jaromir Jagr 2. (17) Mats Sundin 3. (44) Chris Drury 4. (47) Alexander Frolov 5. (74) Andrew Brunette 6. (77) Alexei Zhitnik 7. (104) Jason Pominville 8. (107) Jay Bouwmeester 9. (134) Dwayne Roloson 10. (137) Michal Rozsival 11. (164) Saku Koivu 12. (167) Andrew Raycroft 13. (194) Ilya Bryzgalov 14. (197) Jaroslav Halak 15. (224) Pavel Kubina BhawksDown (skydivedad) 1. (15) Jason Spezza 2. (16) Jean-Sebastien Giguere 3. (45) Milan Hejduk 4. (46) Thomas Vanek 5. (75) Ryan Smyth 6. (76) Rod Brind'Amour 7. (105) Bill Guerin 8. (106) Brian Rafalski 9. (135) Miroslav Satan 10. (136) Ed Jovanovski 11. (165) Nathan Horton 12. (166) Josh Harding 13. (195) Mike Van Ryn 14. (196) Mike Smith 15. (225) Paul Martin

posted by garfield at 09:09 AM on September 25, 2007

Sorry about that. I was entertaining guests from out of town all weekend. Thanks, garf. I do like the look of spaceman's team. (Huet and Kolzig are both going to see a significant amount of rubber this year.) Hater's side looks fine; Backstrom and Jokinen are going to have to play over their heads, but there's promise there. And BPP took good advantage of picking first, I think. (I hope Budaj falters, not just for the obvious reason, but because I have his backup.)

posted by chicobangs at 09:32 AM on September 25, 2007

I had to trade Heatley to BPP for Nabokov. I had not choice. His team looks awesome now. It should give you all solace to know that if anyone can turn holding the top two rated players into mediocrity, it's the guy who's got 'em. With one year of experience under my belt, I still pretty much have no idea what I'm doing. I hope Budaj falters, not just for the obvious reason, but because I have his backup. I thought that WAS the obvious reason... what's the obvious reason again?

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 10:37 AM on September 25, 2007

Iorek Byrnison (thematador666) That's actually me. thematador666 is just my Yahoo login name. Are Khabibulin and Legace even starters anymore?

posted by NoMich at 10:37 AM on September 25, 2007

Thanks, garfield! I can't for the life of me figure out who's got the better team. Here a few guys which I would have picked earlier than the round the went in: 225. Paul Martin: will see a lot more ice time, especially on the PP. He's the Devils' quarterback now. 204. Ales Hemsky: I have no reason to believe he can't rack up 70+ points this year. I also very much like Hater's late round picks of Recchi and Stillman. They're old, nobody believes in them anymore, but they're still producing. 197. Jaroslav Halak: he's stopping pucks, and will be #1 in Montréal before the end of the season 194. Ilya Bryzgalov: perhaps the best #2 goalie in the league, will be worth a lot if anything happens to Giguère 150. Martin Straka: he's playing with Jagr, right? 148. Andrei Markov: much like Paul Martin, he's the man at the blue line, now that Souray is gone. And he's got much more talent than Martin. 116. Scott Gomez: he's playing with Jagr, right? 99. Patrick Elias: He's a point-a-game guy no matter who's around him. 83. Eric Staal: Are you kidding me? Is there anything I don't know about his health or something? He's just one year removed from a 100-point season, dammit, and it's not like he's getting old. And the WTF picks are all Weedy's, thanks to the Yahoo! auto-drafter: 11. (152) Stephen Valiquette 12. (179) Carey Price These two picks are going to amount to 10 games total. Well done, Yahoo! auto-drafter! Two questions: Why are there two Backstroms? Where is grum?

posted by qbert72 at 10:47 AM on September 25, 2007

If Budaj falters and you have Budaj, then you falter, Paco. Your pain would then be my pleasure. I thought that was the obvious reason. And even with my two best players both in net, I'll need all the help I can get.

posted by chicobangs at 10:55 AM on September 25, 2007

Q, I labelled grum as lord Vader. Sorry for the confusion. Sorry NoMich. I knew I recognized the email address, but I couldn't quite place it. Now you tell me. I just dropped Halak for Gerber.

posted by garfield at 11:07 AM on September 25, 2007

225. Paul Martin: will see a lot more ice time, especially on the PP. He's the Devils' quarterback now. He was already averaging 25 minutes per game last year, I don't see him getting that much more time. He will probably move up to the first PP unit though, so yes, he should have more PP time.

posted by MrFrisby at 11:26 AM on September 25, 2007

225. Paul Martin: will see a lot more ice time, especially on the PP. He's the Devils' quarterback now. For sure q. I couldn't believe I had picked him last in the draft. Mr. Irrelevant! I had him ranked much higher and after round 5 I figured he be gone much sooner. The Rafalski departure leaves Martin as the #1 D guy on the Devils. Rafalski left behind a ton of minutes especially on the PP. Martin had a lousy 26 pts all of last season with a -9 and an unimpressive 18 PIM. He does have a lifetime +4. It's interesting to note that he has excellent passing skills but his lack of physicality is easier to overlook when he's manning the point on the PP. 2 Season's ago with a lot less ice time than he'll see this year he scored 37pts. 20 on the PP. I have him rated as a top Sleeper pick on D this year. I could have done a lot worse with the last pick. Overall I'm not that excited about my chances as I was last season in this league. Drafting last I made some mistakes trying to make up for Grum's goalie heavy early round picks last season and thought I couldn't get better then Giguere at the end of round 3 anyway! A small reach but it could keep me in contention. I had a pretty extensive list of players I consider high probability Busts this season so that limited my willingness to gamble a little in the middle rounds. I'd post my Bust list but it might be a little to lengthy for this post. If anyone's interested in my Bust opinions I'd be happy to list them and why they're going to fall flat this year as Fantasy Players. Let me know.

posted by skydivedad at 11:27 AM on September 25, 2007

Why are there two Backstroms? yeah, that confused me too (i auto drafted as well). apparently mine is some Washington rookie center.

posted by goddam at 11:31 AM on September 25, 2007

I just dropped Halak for Gerber. Well Halak is a long-term proposition. Huet is the clear #1 to start the season, and you've already got Brizgalov in a similar situation, so maybe Gerber is a better option for the time being. I really think Gerber sucks, though. I don't see him getting that much more time. OK, maybe not a lot more ice time, but definitely more PP time. A conservative projection puts him at 40pts with about 25-30 of those on the PP. That's pretty good for a D-guy picked dead last. Much better than, say, Craig Rivet will ever do. apparently mine is some Washington rookie center Oops. He was playing with Semin in the last pre-season game, though, so you may have an unintentional sleeper on your hands, there.

posted by qbert72 at 11:35 AM on September 25, 2007

Why are there two Backstroms? One's in the pipes and the other guy was named the best player not playing in the NHL this last year. Since he will be centering either Ovechkin or Semin this year for the Caps and that this kid is a pass 1st player on a line with shoot first wingers he could rack up some serious Asst #'s this season. Beleive me you'll here a lot about him this season!

posted by skydivedad at 11:37 AM on September 25, 2007

SDD, I've been curious about your pre-season rankings since you mentioned them last year. post away, if no intellectual property value is being given away for free. Giguere is still recovery from groin surgery, and that is always tricky for a goal tender. It might be a repeat of last year in Anaheim, where Ilya played the majority of the first half. Only, this year he's auditioning for some other team.

posted by garfield at 11:40 AM on September 25, 2007

I'll just go ahead and curse myself right now by saying it: Gaborik, please stay healthy all season long...

posted by chris2sy at 11:47 AM on September 25, 2007

Seconding garfield. Now that it doesn't matter, and if you don't mind sharing, I too would love to geek out on your lists, SDD.

posted by chicobangs at 11:48 AM on September 25, 2007

Thanks Garfield Let me start by defending my Giguere pick even in the face of his sports hernia surgery soon after the playoffs. Unlike last year there is absolutely zero doubt who's #1 in the pipes for the Defending Champs! (36-10-8 2.26 GAA .918SV%, 4 SO) and an impressive (13-4, 1.96 GAA, and .922 SV% in the playoffs). and unlike last season the Management denial of moving Bryzgalov is non existent. The whole hockey world knows he's be displayed to be moved. These factors IMHO make Giggy a top 3 Goalie Pick in any Fantasy Format. As the owner of Bryzgalov you should be thrilled to get a guy that's going to be the starter #1 somewhere this season and probably a lot sooner then most observers are contemplating. There's some other factors involved but they're minor considerations. Doesn't seem to be much interest in the Points League I set up so I'll post my Bust List shortly.

posted by skydivedad at 11:59 AM on September 25, 2007

I'd post my Bust list but it might be a little to lengthy for this post. Is there such a thing as a Locker Room Column? There should be. I'd like to hear your thoughts, SDD. I'm just dumb enough -- if you list Crosby I'll probably cut him.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:04 PM on September 25, 2007

SDD's CRAP! I DRAFTED THAT GUY! Sure hope he's wrong ....... 07/08 NHL 4Sure gonna be a Bust Player Fantasy List! Daniel Biere Only two seasons of + 60pts. prior to his 95pts. breakout last year. Tell me his impending Unrestricted FA's didn't effect that total. He's likely to be skating with Simon Gagne but the other talent in Philly surrounding him is going to be nothing like the guys he played with in Buffalo. Richards, Umberger and Carter are nice young players but none have reached Star Status as consistent highly productive players. Face it the depth in Philly sucks! I won't even mention the huge Defensive Holes and the not so stellar Goalie Tandem. The stage is totally set for Briere to fall off sharply in all Fantasy Categories across the board! Paul Stastny Can anyone say Sophmore Slump! Hey if you didn't see him coming last season what makes you think the high expectations on him this season haven't added a lot of pressure on this youngster! Considering how very streaky this guy is with last years (28g 50a) most coming from a 20 game point scoring streak and your setting yourself up for a fall. Adding Ryan Smith/Wolski and or Svatos as linemates could and probably will diminish his shot total substantially. Especially if he gets off to a slow start. It's interesting to note that the Ave's coaching staff is notorious for Sophmore Slumps. ie Svatos last season. Kristian Huselius Starting his career in Florida with a guy named Mike Keenan produced a pretty mediocre 2 year start to a career for this guy. Totally crashing in 05-06 with only 24 Games with a -11. So he gets shipped to the Flames where last season he had 77pts. (34g). Hey guess who's coaching the Flames this season. If you said Mike Keenan have a cigar! I don't know if it was the city or the coach that caused his early career failures but I'll let someone else find that out come draft day as he's sure to be a fairly early selection. Ok, I have a ton more on my list but I'm out of time for now. So I'll await some comments and post some more players to avoid and why later.

posted by skydivedad at 12:38 PM on September 25, 2007

There is ample reason to believe that Briere will actually have more ice time than he did last season, and Philly has improved significantly: Timonnen, Hartnell, Lupul and Jason Smith. The reason why I wouldn't bet the farm on him is based soley on the fact that Buffalo had great skating defencemen who could move the puck in a fashion that Philly probably won't be able to. But Gagne is a better player than either winger who played with Briere last year. I think he's a sound 80+ points. Huselius - don't sleep on that guy. His development is one of maturity as far as I can tell. It was never a question of talent. Plus Calgary looks great as a rebound team with plenty of proven skill. Guys I think aren't going to do as well this year: Michael Nylander Jason Blake Brendan Shanahan Mark Recchi Tomas Vanek Sheldon Souray

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:19 PM on September 25, 2007

Vanek? Really? It's not like he depended on Brière or Drury for his production. He was playing with Roy and Gaustad. I don't see why he can't keep it up. I'm with you on Brière: he won't be a bust. He's really come into his own under the "new NHL". I'm not so confident about Huselius.

posted by qbert72 at 01:29 PM on September 25, 2007

Mostly because Briere's line was facing the best D pairing on a nightly basis - and now that's going to be Afiniganov's (i'm not bothering to look it up) line with Vanek. Also - from what I understand, Vanek has in the past been a bit of a coaster. Now he's has his $50 million and while I don't think it's written in stone, this would be the recipe for a few more mail-it-in games. But I most assuredly could be wrong about it. Maybe he scores 50.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:50 PM on September 25, 2007

That is a great call on Huselius. I remember reading about how he clashed with Keenan. Great pick up. I'm touch and go on the entire Philly re-vamp. Trading their best blueliner is a big part of that. We'll see what Briere can do, but if he isn't allowed to race in ahead of the D and set up behind the net, his production will take a hit. He had his name called every time he was on the ice by a coach who knew him well. I think this is one of those transition years for him. I can understand the Stastny call, but even in preseason his name is everywhere. The Avs are going to outscore alot of their opponents, and he'll be in on those tallies. I didn't give him enough credit last year, but I don't plan on making the same mistake. Agreed on Vanek. He ain't going to sneak up on anyone this year. Souray is going to kill in Edmonton. Finally a team that really appreciates what they have in him, especially after losing Pronger.

posted by garfield at 02:44 PM on September 25, 2007

SDD's CRAP! I DRAFTED THAT GUY! Sure hope he's wrong ....... 07/08 NHL 4Sure gonna be a Bust Player Fantasy List! Installment 2 Tom Preissing Moving from Eastern Power Ottawa to the lowly Kings will make his best Fantasy Stat (+/-) a non factor. Of his 38pts. last year 18 came from the PP. With the Kings Fat on PP with Rob Blake and Visnovsky I don't see that kind of PP Ice Time for him. Visnovsky and Blake combined for 59 PP pts. last season and Blakes 11 PPG's was 4th in the NHL for Dmen. He's going to lose +/- significantly and forget about any PPP from this guy, his Fantasy Value is not so good. Tomas Vokoun Team changes effect goalies much more than any other position. By far! Hey the Panthers can be a competitive team at times and they know how to help a goalie (just look at Belfour last season 27W 2.77 GAA and a .902 SV%) but I don't see them as a cinch to make the playoffs. They're emerging youthful talent isn't ready as of yet and they don't have Gary Roberts this year so the youngsters will be more up and down. Vokoun will find it impossible to duplicate last season's Nashville #'s. (2.40 GAA and .920SV%) and don't forget he's had 2 significant injuries last 2 seasons. Minus the dynamic talent pocessed by the Preds last year I would avoid drafting this guy. Jason Blake Since weedy mentioned him on his list he's on mine for the following reason. Like Briere he's coming off career best season the year of his unrestricted FA's. The Leafs shelled out 20 Million for 4 years based on that season mostly. Now 34 (he just celebrated his Birthday) I doubt he can score 40 goals like he did for the Isle's last year. Yea, every Leafs fan I discuss this with (except Weedy) says "He never skated with a Sudin before" Hey Sudin isn't the Sudin of old, remember last seasons fade job when the Leafs were trying to make a push. Being only a +1 with the Defensive Isle's last season (2nd worse on the team) and he's only +2 career. Without the goals from last season he's not going to be a high value for the round he was taken in. He couyld quite possible be the biggest bust of the season. Stay Tuned OK Here's some additional players on my list. It's a chore to detail them all but I will. Just give me a name from this list and I'll detail my reasoning. (Some might say "lack of") Keith Tkachuk Dustin Penner Sheldon Souray Vesa Toskala Dominick Hasek Chris Mason Let me know........

posted by skydivedad at 03:19 PM on September 25, 2007

I'm definitely not sold on Mason that he's the main man and all. With Toskala and Blake are you you also applying the "Leafs picked him up equals bust" rule too.

posted by chris2sy at 03:33 PM on September 25, 2007

With Toskala and Blake are you you also applying the "Leafs picked him up equals bust" rule too. Sure that's part of it but look what they're asking of Vesa. Change to a team with a dramatically different style (see Vokuon comment above) especially consider that the Sharks were one of the best Defensive teams league wide last season (tied for 3rd best with the Wings in Goals Allowed) and going to a team that finished with the 5th worse goals allowed (269) in all of the NHL. The Leafs managed to go another off season without upgrading the Blueline and make adaptations that suite the new rules! Throw in his very average .908SV% with a defensive power last year and I can see why he was traded and Nabokov gets the #1 job in SJ. Former Calder winner Raycroft is waiting in the wings and Vesa has been known to feel the pressure of expectations. Mason is Fantasy Radiation (loser) due to the mass exodus of talent out of Nashville. Vokoun, Forsberg, Kariya, Hartnell, and Captain Kimmo Timonen. All Gone! Enough said........

posted by skydivedad at 03:47 PM on September 25, 2007

Except we're not measuring GAA. Any goalie that's going to get 50+ starts will be good in our league. So anyone wants to give up Mason, let me know. I'll take him. I think Toskala will be much better in Toronto - firsly because (and I don't know how this happened) the Toronto D has gone from overrated to vastly underrated. Their top four are damn good. Raytrough was the problem (gave up more goals from 30 feet out than anyone else). For the record, I think Blake is just a nice bunch of numbers from last year, but not a legitimate 40 goal scorer. However, Sundin is still a top 10-15 centre in this league - late season goal droughts notwithstanding. I think Blake is good for 30 goals and 50 points, just not early round draft him good, or actually generally good -but he's a fine 2nd winger for our teams.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 04:08 PM on September 25, 2007

For the record, SJ's blue line is much thinner than the Leafs'. SJ's Goals Against last year is a function of their strength, which is forwards; a dominant forecheck and dogged backcheck. Vesa may get more work, but I see that increasing his SV%....though his GAA may go up.

posted by garfield at 04:22 PM on September 25, 2007

Raycroft was the problem (gave up more goals from 30 feet out than anyone else). I don't know what a guy has to do to keep a job in Toronto. He was only 8th in the league with wins last season (37) granted his GAA (2.99) was highest of any 30 game winner. 2004 Calder Cup winner Raycroft wasn't exactly given a lot of help from the likes of Brian McCabe and Tomas Kaberle both of whom I love as Fantasy picks for offensive stats. To say Toronto's D is vastly underrated is a misnomer when discussing being of assistance to the tender. Not exactly the fastest set of Blueliners in the league but pretty on the PP and pushing the puck up. Just a further example of Leaf impatience as the Sudin window closes on this franchise.......

posted by skydivedad at 04:28 PM on September 25, 2007

a dominant forecheck and dogged backcheck. and who exactly at forward or D performs those defensive tasks consistently for the Leafs other than Tucker............

posted by skydivedad at 04:44 PM on September 25, 2007

garfield posted this a while back: Leafs defense doesn't suck.

posted by qbert72 at 04:54 PM on September 25, 2007

Tucker doesn't backcheck. He consistently has the worst +/- on the team. He's got a lot of heart, but playing on that edge makes him give up on plays he knows are lost too. Stajan, Battaglia, Kilger, Devereaux are the defensive forwards on the Leafs. But my point is that when Vesa was victimized and not giving up an early softie, he was hung out to dry by a team committed to the offensive side of the puck. Take the recent bombardment of the Canucks as an example of a team that can dominate territorily, thus greatly reducing the workload of their goalie. Blessed with amazing speed, the backcheck was able to minimize the damage. But sometimes after a long cycle, the legs just aren't there.

posted by garfield at 05:05 PM on September 25, 2007

Thats interesting stuff q but results count and finishing with 269 Goals Allowed still ranks them as 5th worse in the league defensively. As far as I can tell not giving up a goal is still the best barometer when measuring a team defensively. Also note Raycroft wouldn't have faced so many longer shots if the D was doing its job. So count me as a Leafs D basher for now, unless and until they lower the Goals Against #'s significantly from last season.

posted by skydivedad at 05:08 PM on September 25, 2007

Garfield I'll give you the Tucker point on his back checking. I guess it was his heart and gritty persistence that enamors me. Your absolutely correct in your observation of how the Sharks go about their business. Still it's not enough for me to remove my misgivings of the addition of Toskala as the answer for the problems in Toronto.

posted by skydivedad at 05:16 PM on September 25, 2007

I'm definitely not sold on Mason that he's the main man and all. Mason is Fantasy Radiation (loser) due to the mass exodus of talent out of Nashville Of course - I drafted him. He now has the skydivemom curse of fantasy sports and will forever suck! But no weedy I am not giving him up because if anyone knows me I draft and keep till it kills me. Again I say it is the skydivemom curse of fantasy sports!

posted by skydivemom at 05:31 PM on September 25, 2007

For the record, after watching Mason in person on Saturday, I am totally sold on him. I know the Hurricanes didn't have all of their best players but he still stopped 39 shots. Secondly, I don't think their offseason losses are as terrible as they seem. Forsberg was just a rent-a-player, by the time he arrived there Mason was only playing in 1 out of 3 to 4 games. Vokun was out all of December and that's when Mason had his best month, posting 3 shutouts. During that time the only big loss was against Buffalo. Did I mention that Mason is also in the Central division?

posted by MrFrisby at 05:43 PM on September 25, 2007

By the way, I had a great seat. I had fun, just a tad too much though. There are too many bars on Broadway street.

posted by MrFrisby at 05:57 PM on September 25, 2007

Hey, that Commodore penalty, was that the first penalty that made Nashville's 5 on 3? I'm just reminiscing. Yes, reminiscing, over a pre-season game. Jeez, October 3rd against the Habs can't get here fast enough.

posted by NoMich at 06:56 PM on September 25, 2007

Darcy Hordichuk, Kevin Klein, Greg Zanon, Josh Langfeld and Martin Gelinas have no where near the talent level of the players who left the Preds. and don't let the Pre-season win over the Canes fool you especially as they were shut out by the same Canes squad the day before. Hey Chris Mason has a lot of potential but if you believe he'll repeat the success he had in December last season over the course of an entire season on a squad that lost as much talent as the Preds did I'm afraid you'll be disappointed. I'm convinced with no quality backup what so ever the work load is going to really work against Mason as a potent Fantasy Keeper for the 07/08 season.

posted by skydivedad at 06:56 PM on September 25, 2007

As far as I can tell not giving up a goal is still the best barometer when measuring a team defensively. Also note Raycroft wouldn't have faced so many longer shots if the D was doing its job. Well, it can also be an indicator of a great goalie, too. Raycroft was undoubtedly, for me, the weak link last year. His penchant for late, soft goals and early soft goals is the reason why Toskala is in the blue and white in the first place. Keeping shots outside of 30 feet IS the the D doing it's job. I think you'll see a marked improvement on that front with this team. We just can't score goals.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:07 AM on September 26, 2007

We just can't score goals. Yea and when Blake goes south for this squad in goals we will all be treated to the annual torment Leaf Front Management so gleefully bestows upon those always so optimist and enduringly cute creatures called Leaf Fans.

posted by skydivedad at 09:41 AM on September 26, 2007

The Leafs didn't lose any offense during the summer. 8th best offense of 06-07 should only get better. How do you figure the Leafs can't score? No including the shoot out, of course. I'm not all sunshine and bunnies about the upcoming season, but I'm definitely not all doom and gloom either.

posted by garfield at 09:45 AM on September 26, 2007

Anyone interested in a predictions thread? Top 8 from each conference. SC Finalists. I want to memorialize my hunch about the Panthers making it.

posted by garfield at 09:49 AM on September 26, 2007

Keeping shots outside of 30 feet IS the the D doing it's job. More importantly it's the job of the D to keep the puck out of your net and limiting the amount of shots short, medium or long. I also include Andy McDonald on my Bust list but only if he is no longer Selanne's sidekick . Anyway it been a great conversation and I appreciate the diverse analyst and comments in this thread. We haven't discussed our expectations for the coming season. I'm totally looking forward to another amazing season watching the finest Sport ever conceived by Man! NHL Hockey... Prediction Thread! Hell Yes.........

posted by skydivedad at 09:51 AM on September 26, 2007

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