April 11, 2006

Question: What real time stats are kept in the NHL these days? I was poking around the information super highway this evening, looking at hockey stats and such and I was missing some of my old favorites and noticed some new catagories I had never seen before. Gone were hits and blocked shots and ice time, new to me were the catagories named ATOI and PROD which were measured in minutes and seconds. If any of my hockey loving brethern can lay some knowledge on me, I would appreciate it.

posted by HATER 187 to navel gazing at 10:49 PM - 48 comments

ATOI is Average Time On Ice per game. PROD is apparently average ice time per point recorded, which I've never heard of before, but sounds like a relatively useful indicator. Go figger. You learn something every day.

posted by chicobangs at 12:11 AM on April 12

PROD. Wow. That's a hot, hot stat. Next thing you know they'll be tracking power-play efficiency in terms of time spent with the man advantage (as opposed to number of power plays).

posted by DrJohnEvans at 12:38 AM on April 12

I don't know which way the powerplay stat is best served, percentage or average time between powerplay goals. For example, NBC talks about 'this team averages a powerplay goal every suchandsuch minutes.' I just think that too many stats can burn your brain.

posted by wingnut4life at 06:59 AM on April 12


posted by qbert72 at 08:15 AM on April 12

I do miss hit stats being counted, but I have to admit that it was a wildly variable stat depending on who was keeping track. The Bruins, for example, used to average about half the hits on the road as they did at home, even when they played exactly the same way.

posted by Samsonov14 at 08:28 AM on April 12

Re: shootouts. The winner team in a shootout gets credited with 1 goal (ie. 3-2 victory), regardless of how many goals were scored in the shootout (say 2-0). Who is credited with that one goal and do the shootout stats have any bearing on anything?

posted by smithers at 08:38 AM on April 12

Your answer's in this relaunch FAQ, smithers:

No individual statistics will be awarded from performance in a shootout (e.g. no goals -- or game-winning goals -- credited to scorer; no saves or goals against charged to a goaltender). Also, a goalie will not be charged with a loss to his record should he lose in overtime (this is a change from current practice) or in a shootout. Instead, such a decision would be added to the goalie's OT column (e.g. same as team standings -- GP W L OT).
Shootout stats (like shot and save percentages) are tracked separately, though.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 08:48 AM on April 12

Someone has to be keeping stats for blocked shots, because every time Buffalo's Jay KcKee's name is mentioned anywhere, it always has behind it, "leading the league in blocked shots." Go get him, John Jr.!

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:02 AM on April 12

PROD should be called 'the Prucha.' I think the Rodent started tracking it as Prucha was scoring every game and was averaging much less ice time than Sid and Ovechkin. and on a side Leafs note: what a game from Sundin and Nieuwendyk last night. Just awesome.

posted by garfield at 10:17 AM on April 12

I think it is more useful to scrap the tradtional PP efficient and move to the time per goal. i mean not all powerplays are created equal when a team on the powerplay takes a penalty and evens it up and ends their powerplay. Especially relevant are cases where the faceoff to begin the powerplay results in a penalty to the team with the advantage. those 3 seconds give you an 0 for 1 on the powerplay. i'd be curious to see the efficient work on a PROD basis.

posted by gspm at 10:46 AM on April 12

and on a side Leafs note: what a game from Sundin and Nieuwendyk last night. Just awesome. Well, the calls to trade Sundin miraculously stopped this morning. I wonder if there's a relationship between the two... Fucking Leafs.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:56 PM on April 12

Weedy, they should still be looking to deal Sundin, as they should have done at the trade deadline this season. Toronto's going to suck for a couple of years anyway -- why not cut the payroll and get some draft picks or a young stud back for him?

posted by wfrazerjr at 01:28 PM on April 12

At least we re-signed Aubin.

posted by garfield at 02:03 PM on April 12

I don't like dealing him for four reasons: 1 - It's a weak draft year. No mid 1st round pick looks nearly juicy enough - let alone if you were going to get one of the top 5 picks. And none of the teams that are going to pick in the top five would want him (they're rebuilding too). Next thing you know, it's a "Jagr to the Rangers for nobody"-like deal. 2. Sundin is immensely well-liked and admired among the players throughout the NHL. He has been the Leafs' captain and best player for ten years. He should retire as a Leaf. When Yzerman and the Red Wings were the Dead Things, they didn't trade Stevie. They made the rest of the team better and Stevie led them. Hockey is like that. He also does his job very well - it's not easy being the captain here. That shouldn't be understated. 3. Sundin is neither injury-prone nor a shadow of his former self. I think the fact that he didn't play hockey during the lockout took it's toll, and he only rounded into game shape in the second half - where he has produced at a top-ten pace. He is far from done. 4. Leafs don't need to dump the salary. They already have $20 million in cap space and are a winning team. Without Allison, Berg, Khavanov, Belfour, Richardson and the other players that won't return it is, in fact, a very young team. This is not the Penguins, Capitals or Coyotes here. They can win next year with some moves. Also the play of Wellwood, Steen, Ponikarovsky, and White has been very good. To wit - the young studs we're looking for may already be here. They just need a little more help.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:07 PM on April 12


posted by qbert72 at 02:19 PM on April 12

Damn straight, qbert. Weedy makes excellent points. Sundin shouldn't go anywhere. He's the best player on this team, and until one of the kids steps up (and they will), I'm okay with that. Since the break, he's been one of the top ten players in the league, and he's still getting better. Also, he's the face of the team. You don't want a Joe Thornton situation here in Toronto. You think Bruins fans went apeshit over that trade? That'd be nothing compared to a less than perfect trade in Toronto. They'd be carrying Ferguson's lifeless body out of town on a stick. Keep Sundin, Tucker, McCabe, Kaberle, and anyone under 25. Everyone else goes. Bang, zoom, hello cap room, and in two years they can contend for real. See, you can't have disappointment without hope.

posted by chicobangs at 02:47 PM on April 12

Berg and Richardson won't be returning? Wachou talkin'bout Willis?

posted by garfield at 02:51 PM on April 12

3. Sundin is neither injury-prone nor a shadow of his former self. I think the fact that he didn't play hockey during the lockout took it's toll, and he only rounded into game shape in the second half - where he has produced at a top-ten pace. He is far from done. I think it was more the eye injury that slowed him this year than the lockout. It took a while after that before he got the confidence to play like he does... and, really, what gave him the confidence was going to play for Sweden at a time when the Leafs were sucking HARD. He's been, arguably, one of the top 3 players in the league since the Olympics. Unfortunately, it's a little late now and those two losses to Washington are coming back to haunt them now. Trading him would be a huge mistake, despite what some fickle retarded Leaf fans might thing. (and keeping McCabe will not be easy, but if I had a choice, I'd go with Kaberle).

posted by mkn at 02:54 PM on April 12

Question, not worth starting a new thread over: NHL Playoffs Pick'em. We will be doing a standard pick a series winner and number of games type routine, right? As much as I like DrJ's system, it works best with round robin based tournaments and the NHL playoffs are obviously not as such.

posted by mkn at 03:01 PM on April 12

They can win next year with some moves. Now that's a novel concept. mkn, I think there'll be enough interest to do both kinds of pools.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 03:17 PM on April 12

I'm pretty sure Sundin was missing his legs, moreso than his confidence. At least, that was his own take. But whatever. Once he started looking for his own shot, rather than trying to 'get the team going' he has been his dominant self. And Weedy, Not that I would be heartbroken to see any of the players you mentioned leave, but I'm curious as to why you think Berg, who had a great Olympics, won't be back. I know he is an easy punchline, but those jokes are misinformed. And why did we trade for Richardson if he won't be back? Oh, and Kaberle is becoming pure clutchosity. That is all.

posted by garfield at 03:30 PM on April 12

Oh, Kaberle's a monster. McCabe won't be cheap to re-sign, but as a pair, they're one of the top two or three tandems in the league, and maybe the brightest light of the Leafs' season. They complement each other's skills very well, and they know every nuance of the other's game. And a big accurate point shot off the power play is not exactly something that grows on trees.

posted by chicobangs at 03:41 PM on April 12

And why did we trade for Richardson if he won't be back? Why trade him for at all? He's awfully slow and not as good of a positonal defender as some would like to give him credit for. Five years ago you could say he was a good hitter but now he looks kind of awkward out there.

posted by HATER 187 at 03:50 PM on April 12

So McCabe is one of the good guys now? I'm confused.

posted by qbert72 at 03:58 PM on April 12

Now just hold on one second here, boys. There is entirely too much LeafFilter and not enough RedWingFilter! Who's friggin' moderating this thread!

posted by wingnut4life at 04:18 PM on April 12

We gave up a draft pick (for Richardson) and got a developped prospect (Suglobov for Klee). So we gave up Klee's few years less of mileage and got a few more miles on a prospect. But I agree, Richardson has lost a step and was never the soundest of defenders. At least he is serviceable.

posted by garfield at 04:20 PM on April 12

How 'bout them Wings?

posted by wingnut4life at 04:26 PM on April 12

They complement each other's skills very well Yes. Kaberle plays defence while McCabe plays offence.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 04:51 PM on April 12


posted by wingnut4life at 04:53 PM on April 12

Stop resting your stars! My (other) fantasy team is dying without Pavel and Matthieu. How's that? McCabe doesn't play offense. He shoots the puck and not much else. With the can-opener gone, he isn't even as an effective physical presence as he once was. If McCabe gets more money than Kaberle, I'm going to be seriously pissed off. He can stay, but for less. When was the last time you saw McCabe rush the puck into the offensive zone? When was the last time you saw Kaberle take a stupid penalty, or get caught out of position?

posted by garfield at 05:12 PM on April 12

McCabe doesn't play offence? What does he play, then? 'Cause he sure doesn't play defence. With the can-opener gone, he isn't even as an effective physical presence as he once was. Legislated into ineffectivity! So true. Yes, I know that's not a word.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 05:17 PM on April 12

Put it this way wingnut. While these Make me Laugh fans will be flipping through random NHL games come playoff time, us Wings fans will be able to cheer our team to another Stanley Cup!

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 05:23 PM on April 12

Those wingnuts will be easy picking in the playoffs pools.

posted by qbert72 at 05:41 PM on April 12

My (other) fantasy team is dying without Pavel and Matthieu. Both out with "lower body injuries." I think Schneider will be back thursday. I don't know about Pavel yet. YYM, you're right. I kinda feel bad now because when the playoffs start, these poor souls won't have anything to talk about... Those wingnuts will be easy picking in the playoffs pools. Dems fightin' werds, bud. Quoting that famous russian fighter Drago, "I must break you." Or to quote myself when I yell at my kids, "Don't make me give some more wall to wall counseling."

posted by wingnut4life at 06:46 PM on April 12

Garf- you are as always, a sober second thought. However - Aki Berg is completely incapable of playing 18 minutes a night for an entire season. He may be able to contribute to a team as a sixth or seventh defenceman, but frankly, this is not Larry Murphy all over again. Berg is shit.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:56 PM on April 12

So McCabe is one of the good guys now? I'm confused. When did I say that? The link you posted was one where I said his great season was, in reality, a great three months and an average rest of the year. He was simply being overrated. I'd have him back though. He's a good offensive producer.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:51 PM on April 12

Oh, you did not say that yourself, Weedy. I'm just confused about Leafs fans in general, they seem to have a love-hate relationship with each of the players. Come to think of it, that's very much like the Canadiens fans. I'm not confused anymore!

posted by qbert72 at 10:12 PM on April 12

Well I'm feeling lucky today so here it goes. As a Long Islander I feel compelled to ask all the Leafs fans out there: How does it feel to root for such a dirty fucking team? Tucker on Peca, Roberts on Jonson, Domi on Nediermayer, Shane Corson's entire career, the can opener, this is Leafs playoff legacy of the past five years. They always manage to beat the Sen's in dramatic fashion, and they throw the some of the cheapest hits I've ever seen. Is the bullying tactic one they you find admriable or do you turn a blind eye ?

posted by HATER 187 at 10:26 PM on April 12

All you really need to know is right here. Yeah, you will have to scroll down a little...for the full effect.

posted by tselson at 10:34 PM on April 12

Hey, if the Leafs were in the same division with St. Louis and Chicago, they'd be looking good too. How many games has Detroit lost against its own devision? 2? And both to Nashville, I believe. Meanwhile, the Leafs play Ottawa and Buffalo eight times each and get their asses handed to them about 15 times over. This schedule is BOLLOCKS. Leafs didn't even play the Wings once this year.

posted by mkn at 10:51 PM on April 12

HATER, you know the answer to your own question, right? The fact that the Leafs have met the Islanders quite a bit in the playoffs (in hard, scrappy, mutually messy series) the last little while means that the knives come out a bit quicker, is all. You act as if there's only one player who ever used the can opener, or that Mike Peca or Eric Cairns (or Brad Isbister or Dave Fucking Scatchard) were never less than choirboys in orange & blue. Yes, things got chippy -- long hard series usually do -- but it's not like the Leafs were walking around with brass knuckles and hidden shivs or anything. I know that's been the popular school of thought on the Island for the last few years, but -- come on. If one tenth of what you said was true, then Tucker & McCabe wouldn't just be leading the league in PIMs, they'd be locked up in solitary, and no one would worry about any of the piddly shit Todd Bertuzzi ever did.

posted by chicobangs at 01:09 AM on April 13

I'll will concide tha Peca is a dirty player (knee to knee Jamie Lundmark against the Rangers 3 years ago) and Carins is goon with no playing what so ever. Other than those two I would say a big part of the Islander problem was that they are choir boys. They've been a team completely lacking an edge and they willingly let Toronto roll over them in those two series. My comments were meant to get a rise out of you Leafs fan but there is a little truth behind every joke. It seems to me that the recent legacy of the Leafs have included some strong arm tactics that have left some serious injury in their wake. Just for the record I am not a bitter Islanders fan (I root for Philly) but that first series against the Islanders was marred by cheaps shots.

posted by HATER 187 at 07:43 AM on April 13

you are as always, a sober second thought I am rarely sober...and neither are you. re: the Leafs being dirty - Every successful play-off team (read - not the Senators) has a dirty aspect to their game. Tucker has led the way in that respect in the past, but I think this year he earned some respect for being a well-rounded player. At least he earned some of my respect. The Hecht thing, in my mind, is a non-issue and is really more a Ruff motivational tool than anything. Tucker barely touched Hecht on the play. Sure he embellished the retaliation, but that is quite common.

posted by garfield at 10:29 AM on April 13

I don't think the Leafs are dirty at all. I think Tucker is condemned by his reputation of three years ago and I think McCabe is anything but a cheap shot artist. And from those Islander series the guy I remember being a total jerk-ass was Steve Webb. He'd just run around a hit everyone after they'd passed the puck. He would never get hit because no one ever game him the puck - the no talent hack. He would also disappear on the road. Peca is the king of the look-away hit. And he was/is dirty as shit. No sympathy there. Domi's hit on Neidermayer was dirty as hell. I wish he had never done it. He wasn't a dirty guy before, and hasn't been since - but his whole career will be lamented over because of that elbow. Too bad. Roberts always gave as good as he got. He has no reputation as a dirty player.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:55 AM on April 13

Domi's hit on Neidermayer was dirty as hell. I wish he had never done it. He wasn't a dirty guy before, and hasn't been since - but his whole career will be lamented over because of that elbow. Too bad. As a Leaf fan, I have to remind you that he did sucker-punch Ulf Samuelsson in the face in front of the NYR net one game. Just dropped his gloves, hauled off and punched him square in the face. He got a suspension for that one. I think it was 3 games, and everyone pretended to be outraged, but since it was Ulf (one of dirtiest players in NHL history) no one REALLY cared. That happened before the Neidermeyer incident.

posted by grum@work at 11:34 AM on April 13

Thanks for the update, DrJohnEvans...!

posted by smithers at 12:32 PM on April 13

Glad it wasn't buried in the seasonal leaf pile!

posted by DrJohnEvans at 12:34 PM on April 13

Yeah, I remember that. However, I don't consider sucker-punching Ulf Samuelsson cheap at all. I consider it frontier justice. Or good karma.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:59 PM on April 13

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