11/21/24
January 05, 2008
Flag On The Play!: Was that really cheating? Sportsfilter member TheQatarian has the answer.
It seems that every game I watch, the hometown team gets some very "iffy" calls there way at crucial times of the game. A holding call that is nowhere near the spot of the play, holding (when in fact no holding actually occurred), illegal contact - doesn't it go both ways? I often see offensive receivers do more to interfere with the defensive guy, but 9 out of 10 times it is called on the Defense. I am for a fair game played within the rules. But, you could practically call holding on any play. To place a team at a true disadvantage is repulsive. As much as I love sports, I am not sure anymore about the integrity of the officials.
posted by Mickster at 11:23 AM on January 05, 2008
Excessive Celebration penalties, especially in the college game, are a disgrace. They seem not to be called with any consistency, and they are far too Draconian a punishment for what is at worst a very minor sin. Unless the celebration is taunting or results in a delay of the game, let it be. This is supposed to be a game where emotion is a factor, and people want to have fun. Players cannot be turned into robots. I agree with this on a college level. I can't remember but I think it was WVU who made a touchdown in the bowl game and the guy did taunt OU. I may have the wrong game, but regardless, that was a good penalty call. But come on, some of these college players will never make another TD - let them have a little fun. On some of the other rules: I have never got holding. What I think it is never seems to be what the officials think. I know, I could be wrong. Someone give me a good definition of it. It seems like so many of these rules or penalities have a very fine line on definition.
posted by lil'red at 11:29 AM on January 05, 2008
A bit off topic. Letterman & Trump talking football on Friday. Dave wants to get rid of punts & timeouts. Don wants the NFL to use the college ot rule.
posted by catfish at 12:23 PM on January 05, 2008
I agree with illegal procedure for a flinch being done away with, if defensive lineman can't adjust to the new rule, sorry for them. Most rules are designed to protect players from injury. Two rules that need to be changed involve receivers and defensive backs. Both should be allowed to bump anywhere on the field as long as the bump does not interfere with reception of a ball that is in the air - for example, if a defensive back senses or sees that he has been beaten and bumps a receiver, there should be a penalty with the ball being placed at the point of the foul (like balls used to get placed before the silly five yard penalty for interference on the field). On the flip side, a receiver should be allowed to bump or push a DB as long as the bump or push does not affect reception of the ball or an interception.
posted by Cave_Man at 12:32 PM on January 05, 2008
Nice column Q. I completely agree with your take on the celebration penalties. I'd rather see a group celebration than a lot of the contrived celebrations we've seen in recent years. The false start rule is good as is in my opinion. Its too easy for an o-lineman to pull a d-lineman offside by flinching. The offense already has the advantage of knowing when the ball is being snapped, so why give them more of an upper leg. I think it would just make it more difficult for an effective pass rush.
posted by curlyelk at 12:56 PM on January 05, 2008
I'm on board with changing the excessive celebration rules. I loved it when T.O. took out a sharpie and signed the football. Some of that is fine. However, I hate linebackers that dance around like chickens with their heads cut off when then make a nice tackle when the play went for positive yardage. As to false starts, the problem is that you have to draw the line somewhere. If you do not have this rule, offensive players will flinch in an attempt to draw defensive players offside. I do think there should be some sort of "relevency" test to a penalty. Holding called on a player that is 20 yards away from the play for briefly getting tangled up with the player he was blocking. let it go.
posted by dviking at 12:57 PM on January 05, 2008
I knew there would be some disagreement, and that's perfectly OK. These are just some of the things that annoy me while watching the game. The "flinch-and-point" false start is the one that drives me craziest, though I knew there would be disagreement on it. We could always compromise and say that at least the defensive player should have to cross the line of scrimmage to get the penalty called. To each his/her own, of course. Just seemed like a topic for discussion, as well as something I needed to get off my mind. Always happy the SpoFi community can serve my needs in this area. ;-)
posted by TheQatarian at 01:55 PM on January 05, 2008
Tell you what, while watching the 1st quarter of today's game between Seattle and Washington, a penalty was called on a Washington player for illegally downing a punt. First, he was pushed out of bounds, and then when he came back in bounds and was trying to cover the punt he was pushed into the ball. He never tried to down the ball, didn't try to advance it, and there were three other Redskins there to cover the ball as well. Truly no impact whatsoever. However, the flag was thrown, a five yard penalty, a rekick, and instead of having the ball on their own 20, the Seahawks end up the the ball at midfield. I understand why the is a rule prohibiting a player from going out of bounds and then being the first one to touch the ball, but in the case where the player is pushed out, and clearly not trying to touch the ball there should be an "incidental touching" rule. Add five yards to where the ball is spotted and let it go. First and ten at their 25 would have made more sense to me. Sorry for the rant...I feel better.
posted by dviking at 05:26 PM on January 05, 2008
Someone give me a good definition of [holding] Mine's not canonical by any means, but in the replays I've seen, it usually seems to turn on whether the holder's hands are outside the holdee's chest area and whether the holdee has gotten a step by him toward the ball carrier. For example, grabbing and holding the guy's shoulder as he blows by you on the way to the quarterback.
posted by drumdance at 05:51 PM on January 05, 2008
at least on the high school level, the holding rule is being altered to address some of the concerns expressed here. holding is not to be called unless it is at the point of attack, is blatant or otherwise affects the outcome of the play. the rules are constantly evolving to address problems that crop up, with experiments in the rules being made at one or another level every year
posted by shaggyhooch at 06:11 PM on January 05, 2008
Nothing irritates me more than some one show boating after a play. I understand high fives and smacking each others helmets but to run into the end zone backwards or high stepping like a rockette or doing flips is down right unsportsmanlike and should be penalized as such.
posted by budman13 at 06:30 PM on January 05, 2008
I am in agreement with budman 13. I recently witnessed a rather non-competitive game, (not pro) and a defensive back made a tackle in the backfield. It went from 1st and 10 to 2nd and 12. He jumped and twisted and jived like he'd saved the world. Actually he was a member of the of the team getting creamed. Put some mustard on that hot dog, fool! Your team is still losing by 21 points! What on Earth do you have to dance about?
posted by Scottymac at 07:38 PM on January 05, 2008
Nicely written Q. It seems that every game I watch, the hometown team gets some very "iffy" calls there way at crucial times of the game Obviously you haven't been watching many Browns games since they came back into the league. You should see one sometime if you haven't. I am in no way using this as an excuse for the performance of them, however it sure is the contradiction to your statement.
posted by jojomfd1 at 09:35 AM on January 06, 2008
"Put some mustard on that hot dog, fool! Your team is still losing by 21 points! What on Earth do you have to dance about? Finally having someone on his team make a play?
posted by Cave_Man at 06:00 PM on January 06, 2008
Thanks for the read Q. The planned celebrations (Owens, Johnson) are a bit much but I don't mind the fist-pumping or spiking the ball. It's interesting to me that celebrating is only a "foul" in football. Baseball players do celebrate in big moments - hits, catches, K's - but there seems to be an unwritten rule to not show the other player up, so it's not usually an excessive celebration. But no penalty or ejection ever occurs. Hockey players celebrate after all the goals, and not just one player, it's usually the whole team - banging sticks, high fives as you skate by the bench. Again, no penalty that I've ever seen. Why are the football players not allowed to celebrate? After all, they get all pumped up to make a huge hit. 1 sack can mean alot to a DT or DE. Shouldn't they be excited? Maybe that play will energize the whole team.
posted by BoKnows at 08:00 PM on January 06, 2008
Q, I'm in agreement with the conditions for calling penalties, but I disagree with some that you'd like to see abolished or changed. Let's take them in order. First, the False Start. Agreed that a little nod of the head, slight adjustment of the stance, or the like should not result in a penalty. But what about a shrug of the shoulders or a movement of the hips that is meant to get the defense off balance or moving? True enough, a defensive lineman should be well-drilled enough to go on the movement of the ball, but sometimes you are not in a position to see the ball being snapped until it has almost hit the quarterback's hands. One thing I would like to see on the false start penalty is to have the play continue to run after the flag is thrown. There are many plays where the false start actually gives an advantage to the penalized team; read New England vs Baltimore this season. Let the play run, then give the defense the option of the play or the penalty. The Illegal Formation penalty is to prevent the offense from gaining too large an advantage over the defense. It also makes it a lot easier for the officials and defensive players to determine who is an eligible receiver. Leave it alone. Offensive players need to be coached well enough to know where to line up on a given play. If they can't do that right, they deserve the penalty. Excessive Celebration penalties, especially in the college game, are a disgrace. They seem not to be called with any consistency, and they are far too Draconian a punishment for what is at worst a very minor sin. Unless the celebration is taunting or results in a delay of the game, let it be. This is supposed to be a game where emotion is a factor, and people want to have fun. Players cannot be turned into robots. Thanks for the "rant", Q. Maybe SpoFi can start a minor reformation in football rules.