11/21/24
January 03, 2008
Roger Clemens: Roger Clemens states that he did get injections, but they were not steroids. Now congress is asking him to testify.
Say it ain't so, Roger. Say it ain't so...
posted by canstusdis at 11:05 PM on January 03, 2008
Does anyone else think this is going to turn into a, "I told him that Lidocaine and B-12 were OK but I never told him to give me something else ."? Clemens: OK give me the Lido and B-12 but nothing else. (drops pants) McNamee: (snicker) OK Rog, that's all I'm going to give you today. Clemens: Ouch, That was a big shot, you're sure that's all you gave me. McNamee: Trust me Roger, I would never do what you didn't specifically ask for (cough).
posted by gfinsf at 05:32 AM on January 04, 2008
This seems like the blunt end of a poorly-thought out defense. Good to know Clements is handling this personally. In other news, the McNamee guy is said to be suing Clemens imagine that. The was a post on deadspin.com suggesting that was part of Clemens' strategy as it's unlikely McNamee can meet the standard of proof he'd need in civil court, thus making Clemens look better.
posted by yerfatma at 06:35 AM on January 04, 2008
There must not be that real incriminating proof out there, and Clemens probably knows it. Unless, like some contained in that Mitchell report, there are actual shipment slips signed by Clemens (something I seriously doubt he was ever stupid enough to do), then he probably can get away with saying he was under the assumption McNamee was injecting him with something legal. Whether it's the absolute truth, we may never know. I'm pretty sure he and his agent/attorney thought this all out rather thoroughly before he'd ever go on 60 minutes.
posted by dyams at 07:27 AM on January 04, 2008
There must not be that real incriminating proof out there, and Clemens probably knows it. Or maybe McNamee has a pic of himself with a syringe full of 'roids and a bare-assed Clemens bent over a trainers table awaiting his fix. Interesting thought and a classic Kodak moment that would be. Say cheese!
posted by BornIcon at 07:34 AM on January 04, 2008
Or maybe McNamee has a pic of himself with a syringe full of 'roids and a bare-assed Clemens bent over a trainers table awaiting his fix. I realize you said this to be funny, but it makes my point: Who's to say what, exactly, is contained in any particular syringe? Even if McNamee knows for sure, Clemens can always fall back on the premise he believed the syringe contained something else. McNamee will be painted by Clemens' legal team as, basically, a drug pusher forcing banned substances on their client under false pretenses or claims. I guess that's what he (McNamee) gets for being stupid enough to be the one shoving a needle (possibly containing a banned substance) into another person.
posted by dyams at 08:09 AM on January 04, 2008
This place is your entire fucking life. Get a hobby? Get a fucking life lou-sir. Banningaccountsdoesntwork, maybe you should practice what you preach. No one's asking you to agree with the rules and regulations on this site but if you refuse to follow them, just don't return. Then, you can be at peace in your own delusional, little world and we can go back to talking about what we're here for in the 1st place, sports.
posted by BornIcon at 08:46 AM on January 04, 2008
Well, footballcrew, you've proven yourself greater than the site security. Congratulations. We're all both a combination of proud and scared at the same time.
posted by dfleming at 08:49 AM on January 04, 2008
OK, back to the subject at hand. Unless I'm mistaken, didn't clemens state in a video on youtube that he was never injected with anything, steroids or otherwise, by anyone. I've always been a huge Clemens fan but if his youtube video states that and he is now telling 60 minutes he WAS, in fact, injected but it was just B12 and lidocaine, it makes him look like a fantastic moron.
posted by ksb122 at 08:59 AM on January 04, 2008
So back to Clemens: agree with you about going under oath. But... What I find funny and odd about this is that McNamee is considering suing Clemens for saying McNamee's accusation isn't true. Why would McNamee care about his own name when Clemens has so much more at stake? Mc's got Mitchell, etc. on his side -- he's the benchmark of truth, as flimsy as that may be, for all intents and purposes. If I were him I'd just sit back, arms folded behind the head and tell Roger to sue me if you don't agree with what I said. Be a man and fight for your honor! That would put the onus on Clemens to do more than yak to Mike Wallace...it would force him to do something he doesn't have the balls to do, and that's take Mc to court. Far as I'm concerned, Clemens is guilty until he does that.
posted by diastematic at 09:00 AM on January 04, 2008
Far as I'm concerned, Clemens is guilty until he does that. Why? Because McNamee said so? At this point, I have to put Clemens in the same boat as Barry Bonds except that Bonds' trainer hasn't said that he shot Bonds up with anything and even went to jail because he wouldn't provide the feds with any incrimination evidence against Bonds. Clemens has to deal with the public perception that he cheated just like Bonds. Both were on their way to the Hall of Fame before they were supposed to be in the decline stages of their respective careers but somehow still managed to thrive. IMHO, until actual proof is provided, I don't believe that anything can be done about this. All we're hearing is 'he said - he said' but without proof, that's where it'll stay as, mainly accusations.
posted by BornIcon at 09:27 AM on January 04, 2008
I agree with you on the proof ... if there IS no proof, then Clemens should go after him in court because he'd have nothing to lose. A lack of proof in court means Clemens' reputation is cleared. But if Clemens has something to hide, he's better off hiding with the news media rather than in the courts. As he has been doing. And that's why I don't believe Clemens.
posted by diastematic at 09:36 AM on January 04, 2008
It is kind of strange, though, how McNamee is trying so hard to incriminate himself. Instead of clamming up he wants to keep pushing the issue that he himself is guilty and should punished, lose his own career and reputation, and who knows what else. I guess he feels at least he'll show Roger Clemens is a liar! Maybe that thought will keep him warm while he sits in jail. It's also interesting to me how baseball is so linked to steroid use, the destruction of young people, ruining the sport, is the focus of Congress and the courts, media, etc., while football goes about, for all intents and purposes, unchallenged. Look at all the gigantic, muscle-bound freaks in the NFL! Isn't Congress concerned about that? It's kind of like wanting to shut down the Playboy enterprise because one chick got her lips enhanced when there's 100 other women walking around the Hef's mansion with fake boobs.
posted by dyams at 09:38 AM on January 04, 2008
Everybody on this site probably knows how I feel about steroid in baseball, and this Clemons situation is not making me feel any better about the state of affairs in regard to this subject. That being said, If Roger says he didn't take illegal substances to enhance performance, I believe him until something comes down the pike that refutes his statements. My problems is, and always will be, no statement at all. So, please let the situation run its course and see what happens before jumping on the band wagon and tar and feathering this guy about his statements. And, as you also may well know, I personally don't like the man for unrelated reasons besides his supposed steroid use.
posted by Nakeman at 10:12 AM on January 04, 2008
"It is kind of strange, though, how McNamee is trying so hard to incriminate himself. Instead of clamming up he wants to keep pushing the issue that he himself is guilty and should punished, lose his own career and reputation, and who knows what else. I guess he feels at least he'll show Roger Clemens is a liar! Maybe that thought will keep him warm while he sits in jail." From what I understand, McNamee has already plead guilty and arranged a deal with prosecutors. So there would be nothing for him to gain, other than not being proven a liar. I like you wonder why McNamee persists, my guess is that he has a big smoking gun hidden. His career is finished already, I cannot see ANY athelete at any level allowing the guy to get close to him or her, and I cannot see an athelete's team allowing McNamee to come near any of it's players.
posted by Cave_Man at 11:10 AM on January 04, 2008
I would find it more surprising if Clemens didn't roid up, than if he did. This B-12 shit is ridiculous - not to mention familiar ground a la Tejada. Of course, in my book he's still a Hall of Famer. So's Bonds.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:32 PM on January 04, 2008
Of course, in my book he's still a Hall of Famer. So's Bonds. I totally agree.
posted by dyams at 01:06 PM on January 04, 2008
Weedy, I agree as well.
posted by hawkguy at 01:48 PM on January 04, 2008
i just want to make a plea on behalf of football crew. i like having his dumb-ass around. i can just skip right over his irrelevant, and ill concieved remarks if i want a serious conversation, but sometimes i just want a laugh. in those cases, i can just look for him and imediately be amused. its the same reason i still have a wierd al cd. oh the benifits dont stop there: he also boosts my ego. after-all what can make you feel better about your own inteligence than reading the thaughts of someone who is technically not mentally disabled, but is clearly stupid as hell? plus, as long as he is typing on this site, he isnt doing anything that could cost someone their life! having crew here is a benifit to everyone! crew, i got your back buddy!
posted by elijahin at 02:15 PM on January 04, 2008
The 'taken without knowledge' defense was already used by Bonds.
posted by garfield at 02:56 PM on January 04, 2008
i just want to make a plea on behalf of football crew. i like having his dumb-ass around. Well, footballcrew did use capitals at the beginning of sentences.
posted by tommybiden at 03:01 PM on January 04, 2008
tommy is captialization really that important to you? are you an english teacher or something? i also dont spell very well either. im of the opinion that substance is more important than spelling and punctuation. when i write a paper, my first draft NEVER has caps. i fix it on the final draft, but since my comp prof is not grading me on this site, i dont bother.
posted by elijahin at 03:10 PM on January 04, 2008
it's always good to check this out.
posted by jerseygirl at 03:13 PM on January 04, 2008
tommy is captialization really that important to you? Yes. are you an english teacher or something? Or something.
posted by tommybiden at 03:26 PM on January 04, 2008
Surrrrre they weren't steroids. I plan on watching about 60 seconds of this interview. Just enough to get through the outrage and to a point where I can laugh at the pathetic end to his highly accomplished but morally bankrupt career. Then, I plan on spending the rest of my Sunday night giggling at how worms sometimes turn my way after all.
posted by chicobangs at 03:28 PM on January 04, 2008
Clemens can always fall back on the premise he believed the syringe contained something else In a court of law, sure. In public opinion I would hope not. Both Clemens and Pettitte are accused by the same guy of using Performance Enhancing Drugs. He's proven right in Pettitte's case. Now Clemens says everything is true except they weren't steroids. Almost 4 weeks to come up with that defense.
posted by justgary at 04:52 PM on January 04, 2008
and I cannot see an athelete's team allowing McNamee to come near any of it's players. Please help me out here. Do the organizations have any say in who a player trains with? Shouldn't they?
posted by BoKnows at 05:09 PM on January 04, 2008
shots of lidocaine and b12 arnt uncommon in pro sports, or college for that matter. lidocain masks the pain of an injury and b12 supposedly enhances healing. truth be told it is often used so that an injured player can compete. as to any deal mcnamee might have, if it is proven he lied, the deal would be voided
posted by shaggyhooch at 06:11 PM on January 04, 2008
Of course, in my book he's still a Hall of Famer. So's Bonds. posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:32 PM CST on January 4 Weedy sign me up for a copy as soon as it's published.
posted by Nakeman at 06:47 PM on January 04, 2008
Clemens has been asked to testify before Congress under oath. McNamee, the former Mets trainer and several other people have been asked to testify. This development is interesting, but not unexpected, IMO. I, for one, will be watching what happens.
posted by Cave_Man at 11:04 PM on January 04, 2008
Clemens is no better than Tejada,Bonds,or anyone else mentioned in the Mitchell Report.Clemens did seem to get bigger and better with age as did Bonds,among others.I personally think that Clemens did use steroids or HGH.We'll just have to wait and see what happens when they are all asked to testify before Congress.But thats not saying they are all going to tell the truth either.Both Pettite and Clemens were teammates at the time since McNamee has mentioned both there names.
posted by Ghastly1 at 11:45 AM on January 05, 2008
It's interesting that Congress wants Clemens to testify. So far, the only evidence against Clemens is a statement from a felon. That's fine, and I can (in some bizarre way) understand why they'd want him in front of Congress to talk about it. So how come Shawn Merriman hasn't been called to testify in front of Congress? He tested positive for steroids in the NFL. Wouldn't he be a better person to have in front of Congress to talk about steroids and their use in professional sports?
posted by grum@work at 05:20 PM on January 05, 2008
So far, the only evidence against Clemens is a statement from a felon. And that's clemens' defense, isn't it? What did Clemens' lawyer call him? A troubled man? Of course, Clemens had been nothing short of glowing in his praise of this felon in the past. And Clemens took the felon with him when he went to new york. And the felon was correct about Pettitte (and the report was correct about a lot of players), the rockets workout partner and close friend. And it appears, after previously stating differently, that Clemens (always a beacon of truth) is admitting to the trainers exact story right up to what's being injected (hello bonds). I realize from the bonds situation that a percentage of fans will believe against all evidence that a player is clean (he really didn't know it was steroids), and yes, the guys a felon. And maybe tomorrow he'll recant everything, but to be so dismissive about a player that Clemens has chosen to be in his inside circle for years isn't a fair assessment of the situation. So how come Shawn Merriman hasn't been called to testify in front of Congress? He tested positive for steroids in the NFL. Wouldn't he be a better person to have in front of Congress to talk about steroids and their use in professional sports? They're calling clemens because he's denying the report. Or as they're calling it: "a different perspective". One source said "he brought it on himself". Another quote: "Mr. Clemens has raised concerns about the accuracy of the Mitchell report," Phil Schiliro, the chief of staff to Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, a Democrat from California, told 1050 ESPN New York. I'm not saying I believe them, but if you read their reasoning its obvious why they want clemens and not some football player. It's about the mitchell report and clemens' denials.
posted by justgary at 09:59 AM on January 06, 2008
Gary Huckabay of Baseball Prospectus chimes in with his perspective on the latest round of Congressional steroid hearings. Amen from this corner.
posted by holden at 07:05 PM on January 06, 2008
By Tim Brown, Yahoo! Sports January 6, 2008 "I’m angry that what I've done for the game of baseball … I don't get the benefit of the doubt," he said. My question is what exactly do we owe him? Sports fans paid for their tickets and Mr. Clemens was well compensated for his efforts. And, exactly what has he done for the game of baseball, except his job and recieved many awards for his accomplishments. Seven Cy Young Awards, seems to be a lot of recognition for any professional pitcher and sports fan alike.
posted by Nakeman at 08:05 AM on January 07, 2008
My question is what exactly do we owe him? I agree that we, as fans, don't "owe" him anything. That being said, however, regardless of the substances and how this whole thing plays out, I've always viewed Clemens as a tremendous player, competitor, and hard-worker. Every story I have ever read about him speaks of how rigorous and intense his workouts have always been, and I just don't think anything he potentially did with PEDs takes away from his legacy. He has never seemingly looked for a shortcut to success, and I hope even people who fully believe Clemens used steroids don't believe he could get a shot then automatically be a dominating player. Far from it.
posted by dyams at 09:14 AM on January 07, 2008
dyams- I see a post about pending suit against McNamee on behalf of Clemens. Appears star pitcher beat trainer to the punch. This gives me pause, and probably confirms Clemens will testify before Congress. He seem bound and determinded to clear his name. If he's willing to sue, and testify in court. I see no reason he won't testify before Congress. Back to my orginal comment on what is owed Clemens. I agree he's one of best pitchers in major league history and should be accorded the awards he recieved over the years. If Clemens says he didn't use steriods, I believe him. I have no reason to doubt his word, and the interview with Mike Wallace didn't change my opinion one way or the other. But, I don't owe him blanket acceptance for his deniels based on his baseball expertise and what he gave to the game (which I would like spelled out to me). I believe him like anybody else that denies allegations of illegal activities.
posted by Nakeman at 10:17 AM on January 07, 2008
How about what baseball's done for you, Rajah? What a pretentious asshole.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 11:34 AM on January 07, 2008
How about what baseball's done for you, Rajah? What a pretentious asshole. posted by The_Black_Hand at 11:34 AM CST on January 7 Baseball has done a lot for me and I've testified to that in previous posts. Baseball, not some holier than thou pitcher that requires me to give him a free pass because of he achievements. I believe him because he says so, not because you or mighty Roger Clemens say I owe it him. And, I won't dignify the personal remark with a retort. Let other's see the remark and decide if is justified.
posted by Nakeman at 12:26 PM on January 07, 2008
I don't think that was directed at you, Nakeman. (something tipped me off, I dunno, maybe it's a certain phonetic similarity between "Rajah" and "Roger" pronounced with a certain regional accent...)
posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:45 PM on January 07, 2008
I don't think that was directed at you, Nakeman. My apology to The_Black_Hand and thanks to llb.
posted by Nakeman at 12:51 PM on January 07, 2008
I just don't think anything he potentially did with PEDs takes away from his legacy. Sure it does. We can all have our opinions, but if this all ends with most people believing he took PEDs it takes away from his legacy no doubt. I just don't think anything he potentially did with PEDs takes away from his legacy. He has never seemingly looked for a shortcut to success That makes no sense. If he did use PEDs, if what is in the report, including clemens saying they worked, did happen, that's a short cut. How can you say that's not looking for a shortcut? Did I read that wrong? As far as his legendary workouts, steroids would help him recover faster, for more workouts. That's a shortcut .
posted by justgary at 12:56 PM on January 07, 2008
How can you say that's not looking for a shortcut? All I mean is the guy still has to put in the serious work, and I believe he was more dedicated and probably worked harder than a vast majority of baseball players. I just get the impression some people believe just by injecting steroids these guys suddenly become better baseball players, when that's ridiculous. Clemens got where he was in the game by hard work (and talent) and yes, maybe he did use these substances to recover more quickly from workouts. I'm not really ready to relegate him to the "cheating bastard" category for that.
posted by dyams at 01:04 PM on January 07, 2008
All I mean is the guy still has to put in the serious work, and I believe he was more dedicated and probably worked harder than a vast majority of baseball players. Well, I agree with that. The idea that someone can inject something into their body and become a great player is hopefully a belief held only by the ignorant. Which, if he did do it, makes it all the worse. He was a hall of fame pitcher regardless.
posted by justgary at 01:21 PM on January 07, 2008
He was a hall of fame pitcher for sure! He was one of the great! but the fact is, that he just was... Now he doesn't deserve it.
posted by BoriQa at 10:15 AM on January 13, 2008
Opinions? Mine is that he should ask to testify before the US Senate under oath. It is one thing to swear to 60 Minutes, but doing it under oath would give more credibility. In other news, the McNamee guy is said to be suing Clemens imagine that.