November 05, 2007

MU,KU chart path to showdown in KC: Midwest showdown is coming Nov. 24 for two teams not accustom to the national stage.

posted by brickman to football at 11:39 PM - 28 comments

Having seen both of these teams win in Boulder this year, I was impressed by both, but I think (and have thought for a while) that Mizzou is the class of the Big XII. I really think if they run the regular season table they will wind up beating Oklahoma in the Big XII Championship. Furthermore, if Oregon slips up, although I don't think they have any really tough games left, and if Ohio State loses to Michigan, I think that I would like to see an LSU-Mizzou National Championship. Actually, I just mainly don't want to see OSU (even though they were pretty impressive against Wisconsin on Saturday), but I have never liked the Big Ten.

posted by edub1321 at 01:43 AM on November 06, 2007

As a Hawk fan that bleeds crimson and blue, I think it's a little premature to begin talks of a national championship run. My best friend and my girlfriend are both die hard Mizzou fans. It's been a fun year to watch for a change. I'm looking forward to the game at Arrowhead. "Rock chalk Jayhawk KU." People often ask where that comes from. The bulk of the original university buildings are made from native limestone. Rock chalk.

posted by Tinman at 05:19 AM on November 06, 2007

Sorry edub1321, but the loss at OU was for real. Chase Daniels and his team were soundly beaten and the TD they tacked on at the end only made the outcome look closer than it was. It might have padded the statistics, but that is all it was. Extra yardage when the 1st stringers were on the bench. I am not saying this to be antagonistic, as I think the Tigers are a GREAT team this year. But, it was what it was. Remember last year too, they went into Missouri and defeated an unbeated team at home then. So, if they happen to meet in the Big 12 Championship, I take OU. No disrespect intended. But, they are much better on defense and seem to have a thing for shutting down the spread attack. They used to have Mike Leach on their staff and usually - being the key word here, beat them and their spread offense. Now, with that being said - I do believe that having Kansas, OU, and Missouri at 4,5, and 6 is great for the Big 12 and strength of schedule. I believe that any of these teams is capable of pulling off the wins and taking it all. If so, I do wish they would give some love to the Big 12 as it seems to be that annual love affair with the SEC and now the Pac - 10. Though both leagues are very good, playing at places like College Station, Lubbock, Stillwater, Austin, Boulder, etc... is not any easy thing. Tech is what, like 7 -2? I also think that TX is lurking around the top 10 which would make four of the Big 12 teams pretty stout. I just think that teams routinely jumping OU because they don't try to run up 76 points on everyone is ludicrous. I was shocked that KU left the starters in so long. Love Mangino, but that was not necessary.

posted by Mickster at 06:50 AM on November 06, 2007

Leaving the starters in may have been unnecessary and probably dangerous risking an injury, but as a long time Jayhawk who has sat through dozens of Nebraska routs I took greatjoy in it. In fact I was hoping for 100. I know that is not very sportsmanlike but after so many lopsided defests at the hands of the Cornhuskers it was extremely sweet.

posted by scottypup at 08:11 AM on November 06, 2007

Nebraska running up scores have been the norm for many years. Mainly due to some great football teams in the past. But I'm not hearing any complaining from Nebraska. They seem to have a mindset, what comes around goes around. As for Mizzou, Jayhawks, if they win the next two games. I believer one of them is going to win the Big Twelve and probably have a legitimate shot at a national championship game. I know a lot of ifs but my gut reaction (and wishful thinking) is one of the teams could go all the way.

posted by brickman at 08:28 AM on November 06, 2007

After speaking with several Nebraska fans on the way out of the game, the overwhelming response to this and several issues was: A) there was so much offense in that game that a 14-point swing could have changed the outcome of the game. B) Nebraska fans were not upset about Kansas "running up the score." Several remarked to me that if it had to be anyone dropping that many points on them, they were glad it was Kansas. After being conference sad-sacks for about 20 of the past 25 years, Kansas deserves it. C) Nebraska fans are fantastic people. Not one of them that I spoke to tried to take anything away from Kansas. As a matter of fact, for such a poor football team this year, I was shocked to see how many were in town. I even talked to several that just came to town to tail gate and not go to the game. Great, great fans. D) They are downtrodden. They are tired of their poor season, and it will change. Just a few thoughts from section 43 at Kivisto Field at Memorial Staduim. Sorry for the long post.

posted by hawkguy at 08:54 AM on November 06, 2007

Let's see....KU squeeks by K.State, A&M and Colorado. They beat up on poor old Nebraska... big freakin' deal. It's gonna be nice to sit there in Arrowhead and watch KU get their butts kicked by their first real opponent of the year. KU played one ranked team all year and that was K.State at #24. What a joke. And Mickster...I don't know what game you watched but OU did not dominate MU. First Downs MU 24 OU 21 Passing MU 18 OU 14 Rushing MU 6 OU 7 Penalty 0 0 TOTAL NET YARDS MU 418 OU 384 Total Plays MU 79 OU 67 Average Gain Per Play MU 5.3 OU 5.7 NET YARDS PASSING MU 361 OU 266 Pig makes that dropped interception in the end zone and we don't commit that last fumble it's a whole new game and a MU victory. We got beat but we sure didn't get shamed. Looks to me that OU squeeked one by there.

posted by budman13 at 10:14 AM on November 06, 2007

What a joke. And Mickster...I don't know what game you watched but OU did not dominate MU. I hope you are ready to back that up and it doesn't come back to bite you. Word of advice...oh, nevermind. It's not worth it.

posted by hawkguy at 10:21 AM on November 06, 2007

budman, You missed the entire point of mickster's post, b/c as he pointed out in his comments (did you read all of them?), the fact that MU had comparable stats doesn't mean anything, b/c of the last chunk of time that MU gained yards and scored a TD, both of which were meaningless and not against the OU's starters. So simply pulling out overall game stats doesn't prove anything. If anything, it only helps Mickster's point.

posted by brainofdtrain at 10:41 AM on November 06, 2007

I'm thrilled to see a college football thread here, as the last I remember was about the OSU coach going off on the reporter, and that was a big yawner for me as it didn't really cover anything of substance on the field. But please, let's keep the trash-talking to a minimum and engage in substantive discussion. Budman13, very good job with the statistical evidence to back up the claim that Mizzou did not get dominated by OSU (although good counterpoint by brainofdtrain on preview), but the level of discourse will stay at a higher level if we leave out the "watch KU get their butts kicked" at Arrowhead comments. I think it will be interesting to see how the rest of the college football season plays out. A number of teams could finish with no losses or one loss and have a legitimate claim to play in the national championship game -- LSU, Oregon, tOSU, Mizzou, KU, Oklahoma, West Virginia. I think at present, the only two teams that really control their own destiny are Ohio State, LSU and possibly Kansas. If Kansas can run the table, beating Mizzou and then Oklahoma in the Big XII title game, it presumably would be enough to leapfrog them over one-loss LSU and Oregon teams. Oregon is probably not going to be able to move up without a loss by tOSU or LSU, as their schedule is not favorable from here on out and they're not really going to have a chance to impress the voters or get any sort of strength of schedule bump in the computers. I think if LSU wins out, they will surely play in the national championship game (with the possible exception of a scenario in which KU wins out), as they are currently at no. 2 and would play four more times, at least once (and possibly twice) against ranked opponents and by virtue of playing in the strongest conference (at least according to some rankings).

posted by holden at 10:46 AM on November 06, 2007

Not to mention that just calling the other team a joke adds nothing to your argument, and is one of the fundamental no-no's to this site. You would think that a member with a 3,000 number might understand that. We now return you to your regular programming. Hopefully it is thoughtful discussion about two teams who are in the lead of the Big 12 north, each out-performing the South for the first time in recent memory.

posted by hawkguy at 10:48 AM on November 06, 2007

Holden, I don't think KU/MU can leapfrog LSU if LSU wins out, even if either team runs the table. I would love to see it happen, but I think the gremlins of the BCS are soiling themselves over that exact thought right now.

posted by hawkguy at 10:51 AM on November 06, 2007

hawkguy -- I think Mizzou has no chance of leapfrogging LSU, results be damned. I do think voters just might be inclined to vote an undefeated KU team with high quality victories in its final two games over a one-loss LSU team. Even if KU is below LSU in computers as a result of strength of schedule, the human polls are now 2/3 of the BCS formula. I'm not sure that's such a crazy outcome -- perhaps not a "fair" outcome in the sense that I doubt KU would be undefeated if it played LSU's schedule, but the current system is just made for arguments of that type. From this article:

“I believe that if [Kansas] actually gets to 13-0, it will move up to at least No. 2 in the polls,” BCS expert Jerry Palm posted on his Web site Sunday. “The Jayhawks might even be a strong No. 2.” “So, I feel that if anyone controls its own destiny for the title game, it would be Kansas,” wrote Palm, before adding that the human voters still need to lift the Jayhawks above those teams in front of them because of the importance of the polls.

posted by holden at 11:04 AM on November 06, 2007

From your lips to God's ears, my friend.

posted by hawkguy at 11:50 AM on November 06, 2007

Calling other teams a joke is childish. If you think your team going to win, state why and leave trash talk in your rah-rah nap sack. Saying that, I think M.U. is going to beat Kansas because of the game site. Teams are evenly match and may come down to intangibles-like neutral site of play. hawkguy - no offense, just an opinion and please send me the tickets. Go Tigers!

posted by brickman at 12:25 PM on November 06, 2007

No problem brickman. I don't mind people stating their opinion in a well thought out style, it's the "My team Roxx!!! Yours Suxxx!!!" that reminds me of Junior High School. I definately don't think that guy coming out of the cave represented Socrates. More like Cro-Magnon man. You're still getting the tickets!

posted by hawkguy at 01:23 PM on November 06, 2007

So, if they happen to meet in the Big 12 Championship, I take OU. I'll take the other side simply because OU won the first game. It's pretty rare for one good team to beat another good team twice in the same season -- the loser tends to be more motivated and willing to adjust. CU vs. Texas in 2001, Florida/Florida State in the championship back in '96, etc. The only recent counterexample I can think of is LSU vs. Georgia in 2003.

posted by drumdance at 03:43 PM on November 06, 2007

I'm an OU alum and I'm going to say OU didn't dominate that game. They got some very lucky breaks and took advantage of it. On a neutral site, I don't know if I like my alma mater's chances.

posted by igottheblues at 05:28 PM on November 06, 2007

It's sure nice to see Kansas have a good team this year. It's been way too long. That game at Arrowhead is going to be a great one. Just wish I had tickets. Hawkguy, what you said about the Nebraska fans is so true. I live in Tulsa now and you've never seen anything like these Okies. Talk about poor sportsmanship. You wouldn't belive the crap I get wearing my KU sweatshirt. Oh well, takes all kinds. GO KU! ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK!!

posted by Buckfever14 at 11:43 PM on November 06, 2007

Great teams do what it takes to win, It may not be pretty, but a win is a win. The OU/MU game was anyones until the fourth quarter, I believe OU's big game experience put them over the top. Mizzou made a couple mistakes and it cost them dearly. But like Drum said, it will be tough for OU to repeat on a neutral field. I don't think MU will make those same mistakes again. The game was a win/win - OU got the W and Mizzou took a lot of confidence out of the game believing they can play with anyone. One thing that may hurt MU's chances - Cornelius "Pig" Brown, MU's best defensive player - went down against Texas Tech with a ruptured achillies tendon and is done for the year. He is the defensive captain and TWICE this year was named Big 12 defensive player of the week.

posted by cheftad at 11:54 PM on November 06, 2007

Pig's absence was a major concern for us when we went to Boulder. Those of us who are Mizzou faithful have seen it too many times where we fold up to lesser teams just when we're on the brink but Pinkel has shown us that we're for real. It's been a long standing rule that if you're injured then you don't travel with the team but Pinkel is allowing Pig to travel and that means a lot to his team. He's like having another coach on the side line. There was no let down after the loss to OU. Mizzou put their heads down and went to work and frankly embarrassed CU. KU has a tough game this week against OSU. If you think that we hate the Jayhawks well let me tell you that OSU takes it to an art form.

posted by budman13 at 10:02 AM on November 07, 2007

I was never intending to say that Oklahoma wasn't very good, I was just merely saying that I think that Kansas and (especially) Mizzou have a great chance to beat them. And I won't say that I know much about how well OU has shut down the spread offense, but the Mizzou game last week was so awful that I left a Colorado game early for the first time in 7 years. Their offense moved the ball at will, and the defense sans Brown shut the Buffs down. Even when we were down by 17 to OU I still thought that we had a chance to come back, but towards the end of the second quarter on Saturday, I was ready to leave. So, a new question. If the Big XII champion doesn't lose again (whoever that may be), and they make the National Championship game, who do you all think they would face?

posted by edub1321 at 10:42 AM on November 07, 2007

who do you think they would face? Based on emotion I'm hoping LSU however I think Ohio State has the better team. Besides, I have a friend in Columbus and I have to listen how great his team is every times he calls. Nice guy, but I sure get tired of the homey comments.

posted by brickman at 01:17 PM on November 07, 2007

LSU has a better team than Ohio State by far. Ohio State has not played a single team that is currently ranked in the AP Top 25. LSU has defeated 11. Virginia Tech, 17. Florida, 18. Auburn, and 21. Alabame. In fact, Ohio State was in a similar situation last year with its only true big win being over Michigan and they were dominated by Florida in the National Championship game.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:15 PM on November 07, 2007

I'm not sure. Oregon has the easiest schedule, so they are likely to not lose. I think LSU is the best team of the three, but they have the hardest schedule. I still don't know what to make of Ohio State 10 games into the season, but all they have to do is win at Michigan, which is looking tougher and tougher as we go along here. If forced, I think I would take LSU because I like going with the team that I think is best.

posted by edub1321 at 02:23 PM on November 07, 2007

So, a new question. If the Big XII champion doesn't lose again (whoever that may be), and they make the National Championship game, who do you all think they would face? This would depend on who the champion is. If it is an undefeated Kansas team, then they would face Ohio State as long as Ohio State finished undefeated. If Ohio State were to lose and LSU finishes the season with one loss they would play in the national championship. If both these teams lose between now and Oregon wins out they play Oregon. If all three of them lose, all hell breaks loose. I have a hard time seeing a one loss Big XII champion passing any of the above mentioned three in the polls unless they lose a game.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 03:33 PM on November 07, 2007

It's about time - Missouri has not been to a major bowl since 1969. Last week Missouri dominated Colorado so well that even if the officials wanted to repeat their blunder and give Colorado 5 downs on every possession Missouri still would have won. Missouri needs to get the job done this year since it may be another 40 years before they can put a quality season together and make a run at a major bowl. But there won't be any easy opponents left. In addition to Kansas they play A&M and Kansas State who both have winning records. Then a potential Big 12 Championship game and a bowl game. When I lived in Missouri someone told me the following: An alumnus went to a Missouri football practice with a potential player and flagged down the head coach. The alumnus raved, "I have a kid here who is good enough to play for you right now!" The coach was unimpressed and barked, "Look, I already have enough kids who are good enough to play for me - what I need is a kid good enough to play for Notre Dame!" If Missouri finishes strong I'll look forward to seeking out the guy who told me this joke and repeating it to him with the schools reversed.

posted by longgreenline at 01:54 AM on November 09, 2007

One step closer for each tonight. This is as excited as i can ever remember being for a KU game.

posted by brainofdtrain at 11:55 PM on November 10, 2007

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