11/05/24
October 12, 2007
The answer to the only obvious question is.: The man has two ex-wives, eleven children (thats right 11), and the IRS to take care of. However, those could be the least of his concerns.
jojo, I think it's hopeless. Holyfield could literally get his head knocked off his body, and he'd just pick it up, put it back on, and tell anybody who'd listen that he wants to fight again. I believe the man is deluded beyond recovery.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 06:18 AM on October 12, 2007
I'm not so sure I agree. Yeah, the guy is 45 years old but if boxing is all he knows and he's still able to do it, why not? Who are we to tell this once, great champion that he can no longer be a boxer? If he's able to defend himself, bob & weave, move around the ring and still throw punches, more power to you. People act like boxing isn't a violent sport to begin with even for a 20 year old. Anyone that steps into a boxing ring fully understands that this is a brutal sport and that there's no gaurantee that they'll be able to walk out under their own strength afterwards so if a guy that's a little older still wants to stay in the game, so be it, it's his life.
posted by BornIcon at 06:29 AM on October 12, 2007
If he's able to defend himself, bob & weave, move around the ring and still throw punches, more power to you. He's not. Does that change your take?
posted by yerfatma at 07:26 AM on October 12, 2007
He's not. Does that change your take? No, not really since that's your opinion. Apparently, whomever licensed him thought otherwise so if they're put in the position to either decline or provide a boxer a license to box, they must know that Holyfield can still go out there and do all the things that a boxer does.
posted by BornIcon at 07:43 AM on October 12, 2007
BI - You obviously haven't seen him fight in the past five years. The man is committing slow, painful suicide and there are no shortage of people willing to make a couple bucks off the funeral. How hard do you think it is to get sanctioned to fight in Russia? Probably harder than New Jersey, but still.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:52 AM on October 12, 2007
If he's able to defend himself, bob & weave, move around the ring and still throw punches, more power to you BI you must not have even read the article! Here let me help you with that part. At one point it looked like we had seen the last of Holyfield, who was so pathetic in a lopsided decision loss to journeyman Larry Donald that New York boxing officials suspended him for a lack of reflexes. It was the third straight loss for Holyfield, who was stopped in his previous fight by James Toney.
posted by jojomfd1 at 08:23 AM on October 12, 2007
You obviously haven't seen him fight in the past five years. Actually, I have but again, there are people in place to dictate who should and should not be fighting and before this championship fight in Russia, he was fighting here in the US of A. So if Holyfield wants to go out and commit "slow, painful suicide" maybe he should've just played in the NFL instead. BI you must not have even read the article! Here let me help you with that part. No need for your help but if you feel you must, by all means, I'll listen (or read). But by the way, I did read the article and you forgot to add this part,"But he took some time off and came back" so let me help you with that. I know that everyone that does not want Holyfield to fight any longer has their hearts in the right place but I'm just looking at this objectivly. The man is fully capable of making his own decisions and obviously he has and now he has a chance to become the only 5 time world champion and I do wish him all the best.
posted by BornIcon at 08:37 AM on October 12, 2007
So time off gave him his reflexes back? Why do you think he is fighting in Russia,with the pay per view to be shown at !pm on a NCAA fpptball saturday? He has to fight over there, because noone would license him to get half killed here. New York wont even let him fight there, on the grounds of "diminshed skills". There is no way possible this can be good for boxing.
posted by jojomfd1 at 09:29 AM on October 12, 2007
So basically your stand is that all the boxing licensing commissions in this country and all the fight experts and everyone else who's saying Holyfield is too slow and addled to fight, well, that's like your opinion man. Good stuff. How much time off repairs brain damage/ nerve damage? Oh right, nerve tissue doesn't usually regenerate. And I would take issue with "The man is fully capable of making his own decisions". What are you basing that on? The fact he's fighting for money?
posted by yerfatma at 09:33 AM on October 12, 2007
If he manages to make it and go up against Klitschko I do believe he will be entering a world of pain. Apparently this isn't working out as well as he hoped.
posted by steelergirl at 09:58 AM on October 12, 2007
So basically your stand is that all the boxing licensing commissions in this country and all the fight experts and everyone else who's saying Holyfield is too slow and addled to fight, well, that's like your opinion man. So...what was my stand? I did not understand where that was going. All I'm saying is that obviously, he was licensed here in the US and is going to Russia to fight for the WBO championship. And I would take issue with "The man is fully capable of making his own decisions". What are you basing that on? The fact he's fighting for money? So you're saying that he didn't decide to come out of retirement to try and become the only 5 time heavyweight champion? I mean, we all know that boxers get paid to box, that's their profession but I just don't see how that's relavant. The fact is, Evanader Holyfield can go and sell grills (which I had no idea he was going the George Foreman route, thanks SG) continue to box or even go to the WWE to wrestle, it's still his choice to go and do this things just like it was his choice to have 11 children. 11 kids? Hey "Real Deal", ever hear of protection? And no, I don't mean head gear...wait, ok sort of but not the kind your thinking, buddy.
posted by BornIcon at 10:58 AM on October 12, 2007
I have always said champion fighters have a hard time retiring and usually have to be beaten half to death before they accept their inevitable demise. The reason is this. In order to become a champion fighter, you really do not think you can be beat. You feel such confidence inside yourself that you can beat anybody that you are willing to face any challenger. The fact that you can become a champion means this is a part of your mentality. Nobody that believes they cannot beat everybody, even becomes the champ in the first place. Now you are a rich champ and get a little tired of training, suffer a defeat of two and you retire. At some point when you are sitting on your couch you see some guy you think is a chump, holding the belt that inside your heart you feel belongs to you. So, since you are well rested and feel good you, due to your own mental make up you feel like " hey I'm gonna kick that guys ass and take back my belt" This is the very thought process that enabled you to become the undisputed heaveyweight champ in the first place. You did not look at an awsome Mike Tyson with any fear, you say to yourself "I am gonna go in their and knock that dude out" Then you do it. Fact is that if you have a normal rational thought process, it is highly unlikely that you would become a fighting champion. Its more likely that you take your athletic ability, superior reflexes, enourmous drive and play baseball or some sport where the money is better, the longevity is better, the odds are better since only the top ten fighters in any weight division even have a chance at big money for a very short time. The reason fighters need to have retirement beaten into them in most cases, is that very warrior mentality which made them champions in the first place. It was never about the money, or the fear of getting hurt, or making a wise and rational decision.
posted by Atheist at 11:13 AM on October 12, 2007
... I have but again, there are people in place to dictate who should and should not be fighting and before this championship fight in Russia, he was fighting here in the US of A. Read Jack Newfield's The Shame of Boxing, a magazine expose from 2001, and tell me that those "people in place" would ever decide a boxer should not be fighting if there was a dollar in it.
posted by rcade at 11:16 AM on October 12, 2007
Yvw, BI. I guess only he knows what he needs to do to carry on his lifestyle. But I do think he is going get his ass handed to him on a platter. (or he could suprise everyone) Hopefully his brains will come out unscathed.
posted by steelergirl at 11:24 AM on October 12, 2007
Its more likely that you take your athletic ability, superior reflexes, enourmous drive and play baseball or some sport where the money is better, the longevity is better, the odds are better since only the top ten fighters in any weight division even have a chance at big money for a very short time. Two of the big problems are the fact that Holyfield's "athletic ability, and superior reflexes" aren't there anymore. That's why he can't fight in New York any more. Here is the press release from Evander's own site. Apparently he just accepted this fight two months ago, on August 2nd!? If you want to see just how "serious" he is about this fight, watch the commercials that are linked on that page also, what a joke.
posted by jojomfd1 at 11:45 AM on October 12, 2007
In order to become a champion fighter, you really do not think you can be beat. You feel such confidence inside yourself that you can beat anybody that you are willing to face any challenger. I think that's a terrific point and is probably true of so many pro athletes; the acceptance of aging and your body not being the reliable tool it once was must be so much harder if you haven't been pouring beer into it for years to prepare like I did.
posted by yerfatma at 11:46 AM on October 12, 2007
But I do think he is going get his ass handed to him on a platter. (or he could suprise everyone) Hopefully his brains will come out unscathed. I couldn't say it any better myself. My sentiments exactly.
posted by BornIcon at 11:52 AM on October 12, 2007
HE has been one of the greats of the sport and accomplished things many times that people said he couldn't hats of to you Evander and a great career and here is to the hope that you continue to surprise us all. That being said. Walk away before you end up like Ali.
posted by Debo270 at 12:15 PM on October 12, 2007
That being said. Walk away before you end up like Ali. I always hate the implication that Ali is the way he is because of boxing induced brain injury. The truth is, he has Parkinsons disease. Michael J. Fox has the same disease just not as far along, and I am unaware of any boxing in his past. Meanwhile Joe Frazier, Evander Hollyfield and others who took way more head punnishment that Ali ever did seem relatively fine. Geez I can't remember Ali getting hit in the head but on a couple of occaisions. He was known to withstand vicious body attacks during the rope a dope days but he never was subjected to many head shots. There are thousands afflicted with Parkensons disease and boxing has nothing to do with it. Please, I am not saying getting hit in the head doesn't cause damage and even death. It's just not the case with Ali. He actually had the most evasive head movement in boxing history and rarely got caught, by anybody.
posted by Atheist at 12:35 PM on October 12, 2007
I always hate the implication that Ali is the way he is because of boxing induced brain injury Sorry Walk away before you end up like Rocky in Rocky V. That Better??
posted by Debo270 at 12:59 PM on October 12, 2007
I always hate the implication that Ali is the way he is because of boxing induced brain injury. The truth is, he has Parkinsons disease. Wrong. He suffers from Parkinsons Syndrome, a set of symptoms known also as Parkinsonism, which is often a sign of dementia pugilistica, which Ali suffers from. Parkinson's disease refers to primary or idiopathic (cause unknown) Parkinsonism and is a specific and severe degenerative neural disease; the form of Parkinsonism Ali suffers from is milder and less degenerative.
posted by Hugh Janus at 01:00 PM on October 12, 2007
Thanks Hugh. You da man
posted by Debo270 at 01:28 PM on October 12, 2007
Yep. Ali has what he has from repeatedly getting hit. Or as he liked to suggest "I attacked his hands with my face".
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:33 PM on October 12, 2007
Geez I can't remember Ali getting hit in the head but on a couple of occaisions. He was known to withstand vicious body attacks during the rope a dope days but he never was subjected to many head shots. He actually had the most evasive head movement in boxing history and rarely got caught, by anybody. (See Replay of every Ali/Frazier fight.) It was like they were nailed to the middle of the ring and just took turns swinging. Ali took more Shots to the head and face then Jenna Jamison
posted by Debo270 at 01:36 PM on October 12, 2007
Very nice link Hugh, and it is certainly possible that I am wrong but according to the Northwest Parkinsons Foundation and Ali's wife, he has Parkinsons Disease not syndrome. On their website they have an interesting interview. Their site also (nwpf.org) states the cause for Parkinsons Disease is unknown. Parkinsonism by definition means Parkinson like symptoms which can be attributed to head trauma but since Ali has the disease that correlation is not assured nor scientific. I do realize it is only natural to assume that if an ex fighter exhibits the symptoms they must be the result of boxing which is not necessarily the case. Especially in Ali's case. I made a statement that Ali had Parkinsons disease you refute that by saying he has the syndrome. There is a difference and I suppose depending on the source, you can believe what you like but I think his wife, doctors and the NWPF are fairly reliable. Weedy - I am not sure which Ali you remember but I remember the one who bragged about how pretty he was and how unmarked his face remained. I can't recall him ever making the statement you quote. I believe that comment was regarding his opponents. I love the Weedy McSmokey user name but it does suggest some memory issues could exist.
posted by Atheist at 04:37 PM on October 12, 2007
Hopefully his brains will come out unscathed. The problem isn't whether they come out unscathed or not; the problem is, they're probably going to be beaten out of him.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:49 PM on October 12, 2007
Atheist, that's interesting. I'll definitely look further into it. Wikipedia articles aren't the be-all and end-all, certainly. The larger part of what I've read on the subject says Ali's Parkinson's is boxing-related, though, and I know the federations would like us to think head trauma doesn't do this to their heroes, so I naturally mistrust the medical claims of people close to boxing. Thanks for the leads. I'm constitutionally skeptical, but I'll give them a chance.
posted by Hugh Janus at 05:25 PM on October 12, 2007
Read Jack Newfield's The Shame of Boxing, a magazine expose from 2001, and tell me that those "people in place" would ever decide a boxer should not be fighting if there was a dollar in it. Thanks Rcade. That was a terrific and very sobering article. I don't think that I'll ever look at boxing the same way again. That being said, I still am leaning towards the notion that if he is stupid enough to do this, it's his right to do so. Maybe it's the libertarian in me. I'm not for it. If I were his friend, I would tell him not to. But boxing is all he knows. Foreman won the title at 45 and continued fighting until he was 48. I realize these are different circumstances. But it has to be part of the discussion.
posted by cjets at 05:31 PM on October 12, 2007
Ali took more Shots to the head and face then Jenna Jamison Hey, that's my simile/metaphor!
posted by grum@work at 06:31 PM on October 12, 2007
A metaphor is like a simile...
posted by bobfoot at 06:44 PM on October 12, 2007
And that metaphor's as much unique to you as Jenna's breasts are to her.
posted by yerfatma at 06:51 PM on October 12, 2007
And that metaphor's as much unique to you as Jenna's breasts are to her. Original body parts? No. Unique? Yes
posted by cjets at 07:17 PM on October 12, 2007
Weedy - I am not sure which Ali you remember but I remember the one who bragged about how pretty he was and how unmarked his face remained. I can't recall him ever making the statement you quote. I believe that comment was regarding his opponents. I love the Weedy McSmokey user name but it does suggest some memory issues could exist. No, he never actually said that. But yesterday was Friday, and I was just FEEELIN' it - ya know?
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:46 PM on October 13, 2007
I think Evander Holyfield needs to call Benny Hinn back and see if he can work a miracle. Remember some jackass came up with this idea and paid Evander Holyfield. This is another reason why MMA is kicking the crap out of boxing.
posted by Brahdakine at 08:01 PM on October 13, 2007
posted by SummersEve at 01:56 AM on October 14, 2007
Boxing has been falling off for years especially in the heavyweight division due to lack of quality competitors, Boxers over 40, Don King, Pay per view's resulting in a 2-3 round fight that was bullshit. What else should I list? MMA is on the rise, however, it had no corelation with the decline of boxing. MMA is on the way up because they finally have enough people trained to fight at a high enough level to sell it. Think back to UFC #1 when Royce Gracie fought his first fight on TV here. No one had ever heard of MMA before, they didn't even call it that then. They had to recruit fighters, sign them, and train them. Not to mention form all of the various fighting leagues you see today, with UFC being the oldest I believe. Look at how much even they have changed though. As far as someone else coming up with this for Holyfield. Click on this link and look around at his site before you go and make that statement. This is his idea to become the undisputed heavyweight champ at his age.
posted by jojomfd1 at 02:02 AM on October 14, 2007
Thank you for posting that SE. I was just going to get it but was posting the above. What a lopsided score card. There were no knockdowns in the 12-round bout, which was scored 118-110, 117-111 and 117-111 by the judges Holyfield actually said that he saw some improvement, I guess thats because he didn't get knocked out! He sounded in that article like he will continue to box, we'll see I guess.
posted by jojomfd1 at 02:09 AM on October 14, 2007
They say if he wins he could be in line to fight Wladimir Klitschko. Hollyfield will get his as handed to him by Klitschko. He will be lucky to walk out of that ring. I hope he loses this one and doesn't get hurt too bad, but realizes it is over for him, finally.