11/21/24
July 18, 2007
Report: San Jose Gets Expansion MLS Franchise: According to the San Jose Mercury News, Major League Soccer will award the league's 14th team to the San Jose Earthquakes, an expansion franchise that's taking the team records (but not the team) back from Houston. Portland and New York are next in line for franchises, according to MLS Rumors.
I don't really follow MLS but color me confused. Doesn't New York already have the red bulls? I guess it hasn't stopped them from having 2 teams in other sports, but it seems a little silly given that rarely are both teams ever competitive in the same season.
posted by juv3nal at 11:47 AM on July 18, 2007
but it seems a little silly given that rarely are both teams ever competitive in the same season. Even more so considering that Giants Stadium looks, sounds, and smells like a morgue on match days. Once the NYRBs can sell at least the bottom rung of seats to play the Revolution, then we can talk about another NY franchise.
posted by r8rh8r27 at 12:02 PM on July 18, 2007
I think the MLS needs lower-tier leagues and promotion/relegation. Expansion seems risky, though it makes sense to right the wrong of taking the Quakes away from San Jose.
posted by rcade at 12:32 PM on July 18, 2007
As it stands now, there are 13 teams. Contraction makes more sense than expansion. And if New York City gets a second team, I'll be absolutely pissed. The fact that St. Louis is simply a "bubble" town and Portland (with a smaller metropolitan population) is considered a sure thing is ridiculous. Red Bull New York can't even sell out the lower bowl at Giants Stadium and they want to give New York City a new stadium? Do they have Enron execs running MLS?
posted by igottheblues at 12:44 PM on July 18, 2007
Got to defend my hometown. Giants Stadium, being in NJ, is a bit of a pain in the ass to get to if you don't have a car (like most NYers). I'd be all for a 2nd team (or just move the Red Bulls) if they were someplace accessible by subway (in Brooklyn or Queens). That said, I agree with all y'all - expansion before you're well established is asking for NHL-like struggles. They should definitely work out some kind of relegation system, which would give a bit more excitement to the season (a la the MLB Wild Card - you still have to pay attention even if your team isn't going to win it all).
posted by kokaku at 01:01 PM on July 18, 2007
I think the MLS needs lower-tier leagues and promotion/relegation. Could they use the USL for that type of thing? If the USL agreed to that type of arrangement, of course.
posted by NoMich at 01:15 PM on July 18, 2007
Promotion/relegation won't happen until you have businessmen willing to accept that their investments might not be patted on the back when they have a bad season.
posted by igottheblues at 01:29 PM on July 18, 2007
I'd be all for a 2nd team (or just move the Red Bulls) if they were someplace accessible by subway (in Brooklyn or Queens). the Red Bulls are moving to Harrison, which is far more accessible than the Meadowlands. when the stadium will open is anyone's guess. they're still busy moving around the toxic dirt they found. if the Wilpon's don't get the other franchise in Queens, i wouldn't be surprised to see it in Long Island. as for relegation, this column is from last year but the issues with relegation still apply.
posted by goddam at 02:22 PM on July 18, 2007
Why not use Icahan Stadium on Randall's Island for a second soccer club? The facility is pretty new (2005 I think) and has a state of the art soccer pitch.
posted by HATER 187 at 02:52 PM on July 18, 2007
Why not use Icahan Stadium on Randall's Island for a second soccer club? the stadium, which only seats 5,000, is for track and field. the soccer field sits just outside of the stadium.
posted by goddam at 03:03 PM on July 18, 2007
None of you people sound like you know anything about soccer. I read this thread and you guys sound like a bunch of typical american thinking fans. The MLS is a joke and the last thing they need is more teams. They should just rename the league for what it is...a collegiate league. That's what it is. A bunch of college guys running around with no great talent and a bunch of wannabees. It's funny how these guys all want to play in the MLS until they get a chance to go overseas and play in a real league with world class players. All the top goalies go play there and so do the so-called best players for the US team. Donovan tried it and sat on the bench and came back to be the superstar in the MLS. Then the aging world known players who are past their peak come to the states to play, not because they want to make this league better. It's because they can milk the league for more money and not have to be in the best shape or skill level as they once were to compete. The MLS has too many college guys who think they're good players in this league. If the MLS wants to compete and be considered a top league, they need to bring in world class players who are at their professional peak and each team needs to be comprised of more than half with great players along with good european and south american coaches who know the game and skills needed to compete instead of some lame-ass college coaches with no high level experience...i.e. Bruce Arena, Bradley and etc... Look what happened to the Galaxy last night. Got beat 3-0 to the Mexican team,Tigres. Beckham isn't going to make them a better team. It's only going to make them a higher profile team and sell more jerseys. That's all. He's here because he is on the outs in his professional career and no one would pay him this kind of money at his age and especially with all his recent injuries. And within the next two years, his international career will end with England. He won't be on the squad for the next world cup. You guys ever actually watch an MLS game on TV? the whole game? it's freakn' painful. It's like watching a bunch of ten year olds kicking the ball. If one team has control and puts 3 passes together without losing the ball, it's a miracle. No wonder the American media and sports journalists hate this game. They look at some of the MLS games and think this will grow bigger than american Football, baseball and basketball? not with league and these players.
posted by koolhandvuk at 03:44 PM on July 18, 2007
{delayed from preview to post a couple of hours by weird problems accessing this site} kool: kiss my shiny red booty, and I mean that in the nicest way, but you don't know anything about the regulars on this board if you think we're a bunch of know-nothings. juv3nal: Red Bulls play in New Jersey, despite the name, just like the Giants and Jets. The soccer-specific stadium the team is building is in Harrison, just across the river from Newark. (Sorry, this is pulling on a very old scab for me.) I doubt that having a team in Queens would create a fan drain for either and would also point out that there are now two LA teams, who even share a stadium. r8rh8r27, MLS has started to work down the age trail so that every franchise has a reserve team (and these play in their own league, as well) and I believe at least a few have started academies to work with younger players. The new Earthquakes are no surprise, since the league sold Lew Wolff (who also owns the Oakland, soon to be Fremont, A's) the rights at least a year ago. As I blogged last night, the timing is a bit surprising because Wolff is having a bit of a hard time nailing down the new stadium. First he couldn't make a deal with San Jose State to build a new Spartan Stadium and now his proposal for a stadium is generating controversy because its part of a package that, while taking no government money, would grant Wolff some very valuable zoning concessions on a separate land parcel. It's currently zoned for commercial use (office or light industrial) and the deal would change that to residential. We'll see how quickly a new stadium deal, one that stands up to threatened legal challenges, comes through; the new Quakes could easily be waiting several years for the permanent home. Finally, while I agree that relegation/promotion ought to come to American soccer, I doubt we'll see it before (a) MLS changes its structure so that teams are not owned by the league and (b) expansion finishes or at least plateaus and the newest squads have a few seasons to become competitive.
posted by billsaysthis at 03:48 PM on July 18, 2007
MLS has started to work down the age trail so that every franchise has a reserve team (and these play in their own league, as well) and I believe at least a few have started academies to work with younger players. the metros/red bulls have had an academy for quite some time now. the problem was that they didn't have any rights to those players. i believe MLS finally changed the rule this year so that it's somewhat of a farm system, where franchises can develop players and actually have the chance to sign them later on as well.
posted by goddam at 04:06 PM on July 18, 2007
Billsaysthis: you ever watch the ESPN commercials where the guy is talking out of his shiny red booty? that's you guys. I didn't realize this was a special board. You guys are "special" and it should be more like....bored! and not board.
posted by koolhandvuk at 04:12 PM on July 18, 2007
koolhandvuk, you've given us all this rant several times before (1, 2, 3, 4, 5). As I recall, you usually wind up getting your points handed back to you in a shredded mess. Try two things for me: original thought presented in a manner that suggests you might be interested in the opinions of others and paragraphs.
posted by yerfatma at 04:15 PM on July 18, 2007
Yerfatma: nice name by the way...I'm glad that you guys are a special discussion group. And that you enjoy each other's opinions. Have you ever played the game? or did you just watch it on tv one day and decide to coach your 5 year old's team because they needed volunteers? You know, they now have instructional books and videos if you want to become the next US head coach. You guys are lame and your discussion is weak. Lets' build more soccer specific stadiums so we have a nice place that will never sellout...ah duh!
posted by koolhandvuk at 04:25 PM on July 18, 2007
I have no idea what your point is. Yes I played soccer. Hooray for me. Go away. Anyone who feels the need to undercut someone else with every comment must be pretty unsure of their own convictions.
posted by yerfatma at 05:11 PM on July 18, 2007
Yerfatma: nice name by the way...I'm glad that you guys are a special discussion group. And that you enjoy each other's opinions. Have you ever played the game? or did you just watch it on tv one day and decide to coach your 5 year old's team because they needed volunteers? You know, they now have instructional books and videos if you want to become the next US head coach. You guys are lame and your discussion is weak. Lets' build more soccer specific stadiums so we have a nice place that will never sellout...ah duh! And yet, you continue to grace us with your presence Thank you, thank you, thank you, one million thank yous.
posted by tommybiden at 05:11 PM on July 18, 2007
I am not a soccer fan, but I do enjoy watching top European or South American clubs competing. I know little about soccer officiating, but I do know this: RED CARD for koolhandvuk. He has committed multiple fouls against good grammar, the English language, and lack of respect for the membership.
posted by Howard_T at 06:42 PM on July 18, 2007
Thanks for the info goddam, I haven't been to Randall's in a loooong while. Maybe when I go to Rock the Bells this month I can get a good look at the pitch. Koolhandvuk, what we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men. Besides "US soccer fans suck" I don't know what you are getting at. You could have told us that in one post and without giving all the literate members of sportsfilter douche chill with your butchering of the English language. I'm no Tolstoy, but I can put a post together better than that.
posted by HATER 187 at 09:53 PM on July 18, 2007
Then the aging world known players who are past their peak come to the states to play Some of the players coming in are maybe hitting the end of their prime but many are far from past it. Guillermo Barros, Juan Pablo Angel and Blanco can still play at a very high level. The biggest name of them all is still far from that point as he showed this past year. Becks made Capello and McClaren both look like complete idiots for sitting him. Capello probably lost his job because of it despite winning La Liga. Anyone saying Beckham wasn't instrumental in Reals La Liga title wasn't watching football, or at least the same ones I was watching. I do think MLS were a little lucky to get a player of his caliber. The stars aligned perfectly for it, but it may pave the way for many other big names to make the same move. If McClaren or Capello hadn't given up on Beckham, then he probably would've tried to either stay at Madrid or at least close to England for national team call ups. These two gaffes (along with the $250M) gave Beckham the incentive he needed to make the switch to MLS. Not to mention the US team has some very bright stars shining on the horizon : Feilhaber, Bradley, Bornstein, Conrad, DeMerit, Clark, Kljestan & Spector some of who are doing very well in Europe.
posted by Ricardo at 07:58 AM on July 19, 2007
One of the biggest dilemmas that MLS faces is within its homegrown prospects. In order to get more international experience for younger players, many of them go to Europe, some very successfully. That helps the MNT but hurts MLS. Then when they succeed and stay in Europe we criticize them for not playing MLS. If we can't keep our best young players how can that be good for the long term success of MLS? Why would a quality Euro or South American player come to MLS when we can't keep our own best players here? If MLS keeps those players it hurts the MNT to some degree. I would imagine more fans would turn out for games if our best players were on MLS rosters instead of abroad. Another problem that MLS faces is from the fans. Most kids that attend games (with parents) are usually players and have games on weekends, which often conflict with afternoon and early evening game times. I haven't seen the figures but I would guess that night games have much larger attendance than afternoon games. I do not have the answers, just stating some of the problems that MLS faces.
posted by urall cloolis at 11:06 AM on July 19, 2007
I agree with r8rh8r and some other previous posts to some degree regarding promotion/relegation. The most competitive way would be to promote a couple of MLS teams and have promotion and relegation between the leagues. However that would never work now in MLS due to ownership and attendance problems. If a MLS team was relegated from a major city then attendance figures could collapse the league. On the other end if a USL team with poor support and ownership was to advance to MLS they may not have the money, stadium and other issues to compete. If Chicago and Los Angeles were to be relegated there would be major problems. If Real Salt Lake were to be relegated a year after purchasing a franchise I am sure it would discourage future investors in the league. Can you imagine the fallout if LA was relegated after signing Becks? He could be playing USL or have to be sold in order for the franchise (and league) to survive. I do agree that MLS should have given better consideration to a current USL team- I am sure Portland, Seattle, Montreal, Vancouver (current top USL teams) would be adequate cities. I just can't see making the same mistakes as before- San Jose didn't work the first time, why give it a franchise so soon after a team left and had issues that still have not been resolved (stadium, fan support, etc...). Someday I would like to see a way for promotion and relegation between USL and MLS work. It seems to work everywhere else.
posted by urall cloolis at 01:16 PM on July 19, 2007
If I remember correctly, the only reason San Jose left was due to the owners not being able to receive enough support for a new stadium. I think they had decent enough fan support. And the only reason promotion/relegation works in aplace like England is because there is enough interest to sustain 80+ professional teams in an area not much bigger than Pennsylvania. If the us ever has that kind of interest, then we would have 500 or so teams (based on population more than size) and it would be an easy system to implement. That won't happen anytime in the next 1000 years though.
posted by Ricardo at 01:54 PM on July 19, 2007
If I remember correctly, the only reason San Jose left was due to the owners not being able to receive enough support for a new stadium. I think they had decent enough fan support. Actually San Jose was consistently near or at the bottom of attendance every year going back to 2000. They were anywhere from 2,000 to 5,000 less per game than the league average for their last six seasons in San Jose. In contrast, last year in Houston they were third in the league and 4,000 fans per game over the league average.
posted by urall cloolis at 06:51 PM on July 19, 2007
r8rh8r27, MLS has started to work down the age trail so that every franchise has a reserve team (and these play in their own league, as well) and I believe at least a few have started academies to work with younger players. I agree that a juniors system is good, but the overall reception is very poor so far. While some juniors teams are supported by the club, many others only accept players that can afford the $5,000- $20,000 a year (depending on the club) that it requires per year for coaching, training and travel. They do not play against each other (other MLS juniors) in a league, they play in local leagues and local, national and regional tournaments. Many leagues are not happy with them participating for many reasons.
posted by urall cloolis at 09:03 PM on July 19, 2007
urall, Earthquakes attendance was on the way back up the last two seasons here. As a local, and a subscriber to the ClubQuake mailing list, from my perspective the stadium was the biggest issue. Also, AEG wanted to get out of owning the team and the one local candidate turned out to be a flake and used up all the time available before a go/no go decision apparently had to be made; while they still own the Dynamo, AEG have shed all the others except Galaxy, which is the one they want to keep longterm. Lew Wolff, the new owner, besides owning the A's has a deep track record in the South Bay. I was at a board meeting of a local non-profit when his name came up, turns out he's soft-spoken but big hearted, and has given large dosh to many community organizations
posted by billsaysthis at 07:50 PM on July 21, 2007
The MLS doesn't need expansion teams. They need "soccer" exclusive stadiums with fans close to the pitch and close to each other. They need to lift the salary restrictions so that teams can get more than one premiere player. The need to form youth teams (for ages 8 - 18) to support all the clubs in the MLS and improve the overall play for the country. If they want more teams in the MLS there are plenty of good USL teams running MLS squads off the pitch at every opportunity. Promote one or two of them and start regulation between the two leagues.