12/21/24
April 26, 2007
The New Adventures of New Christine: : Los Angeles Times sportswriter Mike Penner, a 23-year veteran of the paper, reveals quite a change to come in his life. Don't worry, he'll still like football.
posted by The_Black_Hand to culture at 04:55 PM - 35 comments
Does anybody know why so many of these gender-switchers take the name Christine or Christina? Is is paying homage to someone, or just a lack of imagination?
posted by graymatters at 06:33 PM on April 26, 2007
Like I said in the other thread, I don't care if it's a guy, gal or something in between: the content of the writing means more to me than the person writing it. I agree. But I also find this stuff interesting. Men changing into women. Women changing into men. It's really pretty remarkable. I can't relate to that kind of decision. I can't even pick a tattoo I like, let alone that new vagina I've always wanted.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 06:57 PM on April 26, 2007
Does anybody know why so many of these gender-switchers take the name Christine or Christina? Is is paying homage to someone, or just a lack of imagination? Maybe as some sort of homage to this person?
posted by grum@work at 07:30 PM on April 26, 2007
Does anybody know why so many of these gender-switchers take the name Christine or Christina? I wish we just all be called Pat, have nationalist healthcare and continue to give kids playing youth sports 3 foot trophies just for showing up. Now if I could just find Mr. Garrison's fancy new vagina...
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 08:38 PM on April 26, 2007
I know this guy is a sportswriter but what exactly does this have to do with sports? I mean, who really cares that this guy is changing genders? As long as he/she continues doing what he/she loves and is happy doing it, God bless you.
posted by BornIcon at 05:33 AM on April 27, 2007
I'd pick the name Vicki. Forty years is a long time to think you've been given the wrong parts. I'm impressed with her courage in going public with the transition and the paper's decision to run the commentary. As a group, sportswriters are not among the most evolved people I've ever met in journalism. I can't even pick a tattoo I like, let alone that new vagina I've always wanted. What is it going to take today to put you in a new vagina?
posted by rcade at 07:32 AM on April 27, 2007
BornIcon, if you put it to people in terms of, "What skin is it off your nose if the guy has a sex change?" very few will have a good answer for you -- and yet, Penner's not paranoid for thinking that he's likely to get a ration of shit in some quarters. The bigots will run their mouths no matter how the news became known, but I think that by making a public announcement, he creates the occasion for people who are fine with it to say something supportive, which isn't quite as easy if he just did it as quietly as possible.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:39 AM on April 27, 2007
What is it going to take today to put you in a new vagina? You making a hell of a case to my wife.
posted by yerfatma at 07:47 AM on April 27, 2007
LBB, "What skin is it off your nose" that I put it out there the way I did? That's what makes us all individuals.
posted by BornIcon at 07:57 AM on April 27, 2007
Don't ask a question if you don't want an answer, BornIcon.
posted by rcade at 08:12 AM on April 27, 2007
It's not about not wanting an answer rcade, I just don't see the validity in a non-sports story. Ok, the guy wrote a column about his personal choice of having a sex change. And? What does this have to do with anything sports-related except that she is a sports writer. But I can see that it's fine for someone to question my post but I can't do the exact same thing without someone else making it seem as if I said something awful. Thanks
posted by BornIcon at 08:20 AM on April 27, 2007
Born Icon, if it doesn't interest you, or if you find it un-sports related, why not just skip it and go on to the next thread?
posted by hawkguy at 08:51 AM on April 27, 2007
Well, because like most people that are SpoFi members, I like to read what other people write, I find it interesting. Then you have people like yourself that tend to ask me a question and since I don't like to be rude, I answer them. This has nothing to do with me not being interested in this story, I just don't see the relevance of it being a "sports story." Like I said on an earlier post, "this is what makes us individuals."
posted by BornIcon at 09:08 AM on April 27, 2007
I'm not clear on how a sportswriter's decision to change genders isn't related to sports. If we're all here because sports holds a mirror to society, won't this be an interesting test of how society responds to gender reassignment?
posted by yerfatma at 09:28 AM on April 27, 2007
....won't this be an interesting test of how society responds to gender reassignment? What is it going to take today to put you in a new vagina? You making a hell of a case to my wife. posted by yerfatma Does anybody know why so many of these gender-switchers take the name Christine or Christina? I can't relate to that kind of decision. I can't even pick a tattoo I like, let alone that new vagina I've always wanted. Yeah, real ground-breaking stuff.
posted by BornIcon at 09:34 AM on April 27, 2007
LBB, "What skin is it off your nose" that I put it out there the way I did? Uhhhh...wtf? You asked the question, "I mean, who really cares that this guy is changing genders?" I answered you, by explaining that depending on how you frame the "do you care?" question, the answer may differ. What part of what I said to you set you off, exactly.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:50 AM on April 27, 2007
BornIcon, how is this story any different than the John Amaechi story? You never took issue with that as a sports-related thread. Just today you called Lebron James a retard. I'm not sure I trust you to set the standard for ground-breaking discourse.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 11:01 AM on April 27, 2007
What part of what I said to you set you off, exactly. Set me off? Now there's a wtf for you. You didn't 'set me off' LBB but instead of answering my question, you went ahead and said, "Well, if you would've phrased it this way..." and all I meant was since we're all individuals, none of us will word things the way you might of had. That's expected but I'm hoping you understand what I meant. Maybe if you said it like.... BornIcon, how is this story any different than the John Amaechi story? You never took issue with that as a sports-related thread. Just today you called Lebron James a retard. I'm not sure I trust you to set the standard for ground-breaking discourse. Why would I take issue to that story? John Amechi was a former-NBA player that came out the closet after his playing days. It was a relevant sports story considering he actually played a sport and people know who John Amaechi is. Would you have been able to tell me who Mike Penner was before this story can out? And to respond to what I said about Lebron. Your point is...? What exactly? I saw the clip of him trying to sing 'Staying Alive' by the Bee Gees that jojo posted and LeBron had me laughing so hard. When I called him 'retarded', it's like when you hear something funny and after hearing it, you tell the person that said it, "Man, your such a retard." By the way, did I ask you to "trust me to set the standard for ground-breaking discourse?" No? Didn't think so.
posted by BornIcon at 11:28 AM on April 27, 2007
Stop making this about you, BornIcon. I could care less whether you think this is an interesting story -- other people clearly do. The LA Times reported today that the story got 500,000 hits in a couple days. SportsFilter takes a wide view of what constitutes a sports story, and I hope that's always true. The fact this is a transsexual sportswriter -- working in a macho male-dominated profession -- makes it good fodder for discussion.
posted by rcade at 11:43 AM on April 27, 2007
Ok rcade. How exactly am I making this about me? This all began when I asked a very simple question and suddenly, now it's about me? Com'on now, did you read any of my posts above? Again, a simply question. I can appreciate that SportsFilter "takes a wide view of what constitutes a sports story" but apparently having an opinion is a no-no?
posted by BornIcon at 12:01 PM on April 27, 2007
What part of move along are you not understanding? Stop making this discussion about your disinterest in the subject. Pretend I am saying this to you in Ivan Drago voice if you are still not getting it.
posted by rcade at 12:11 PM on April 27, 2007
This all began when I asked a very simple question and suddenly, now it's about me? It all began when you flew off the handle at a very innocuous, straightforward answer to your very simple question, and started ranting about imaginary censure of how you expressed yourself and being told that you can't express your opinion. I'm still completely mystified at your reaction. What part of my answer did you find offensive or confusing or whatever you found it that provoked such a reaction?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:13 PM on April 27, 2007
No LBB, this all actually started when you made it a point to tell me that maybe I should've said it the way you would've and I asked you what's was wrong with the way I said it in the first place. Since we're all individuals, we don't all phrase things the same. I didn't "fly off the handle" or "rant about imaginary censure." Where do you come up with this shit? I'm truly interested. You seem like the kid that causes damage, leaves and then, when all hell breaks loose, you come back and say, "What happened here?" Don't sweat it Drago, I'll move on to the next topic. I don't want up to break me.
posted by BornIcon at 12:28 PM on April 27, 2007
And to respond to what I said about Lebron. Your point is...? What exactly? I saw the clip of him trying to sing 'Staying Alive' by the Bee Gees that jojo posted and LeBron had me laughing so hard. When I called him 'retarded', it's like when you hear something funny and after hearing it, you tell the person that said it, "Man, your such a retard." Yeah, I'm sure that was Don Imus' defence too. That is offensive to anyone with a sense of decency. Do you really think it's funny to mock someone for mental, physical or emotional challenges?
posted by tommybiden at 12:40 PM on April 27, 2007
Do you really think it's funny to mock someone for mental, physical or emotional challenges? I definitely take offense two "retard" or "retarded" as acceptable name calling. I had to severely mentally and physically handicapped brothers (one died) and it sickens me to hear those words. Of course, you don't have to have handicapped brothers to find those words objectionable. Like tommytrump said, you just have to possess a sense of decency.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 01:23 PM on April 27, 2007
This story has some pretty interesting nuances, now that I'm thinking about it. I wonder what this change does to the writer's access. Is it more likely to close doors that were previously open, or open doors that were previously closed? I wonder how sports figures who have a history of working with this writer will respond. We draw such a close connection between our visual and intellectual knowledge of other people, I wonder if Christine will have to essentially start over with her work relationships. Of course, all this is moot if Christine's future is a generous severance package. That would be disappointing.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 01:38 PM on April 27, 2007
No LBB, this all actually started when you made it a point to tell me that maybe I should've said it the way you would've I didn't say any such thing! Look, BornIcon, the word "you" doesn't always mean you personally -- it's a common usage in the English language to use the word "you" to mean "people", "one", etc. Expressions like, "You can't squeeze blood from a turnip," don't mean that you, BornIcon, are a failure at squeezing blood from a turnip; they mean that, in general, it can't be done. And when I said, "if you put it to people in terms of, "What skin is it off your nose if the guy has a sex change?" very few will have a good answer for you," I wasn't talking about BornIcon. Would it make you happier if I said, "If the question is phrased as, 'What skin is it off your nose...'"? Sweet mother of pearl, it really is not about you.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:01 PM on April 27, 2007
Texan, I don't disagree with you, but as someone with a retarded cousin and a parent and aunt who were involved in special education, I still cannot overcome the fact that without "retard" and "gay", I would have grown up in silence in New England in the 80s.
posted by yerfatma at 02:16 PM on April 27, 2007
You would be growing up in silence now too. Some things just don't change it seems.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:03 PM on April 27, 2007
Well said, sped.
posted by yerfatma at 08:20 PM on April 27, 2007
Of course, all this is moot if Christine's future is a generous severance package. That would be disappointing. Ummm...Isn't that what the operation is all about? OK, I'll be serious. It's a courageous step, and Mr. Penner is in the sports business, at least peripherally. May MS Daniels have success and prosperity in her future endeavors.
posted by Howard_T at 04:58 PM on April 28, 2007
The only problem with the whole sex-change thing, is the fact that the women usually just end up looking like a long-haired dude who had his dick chopped off. Wouldn't it be better to just dress up and look like a long-haired dude without chopping off your junk? Reading stuff like this makes me happy to be me. I can't imagine waking up everday and seeing a stranger in the mirror.
posted by yay-yo at 06:05 PM on April 28, 2007
I can't imagine waking up everday and seeing a stranger in the mirror. I think you just answered your own question about why they do it.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:28 PM on April 28, 2007
Hello, subtlety my old friend. Have I come to confuse them all again?
posted by yerfatma at 10:18 PM on April 28, 2007
Been there, done that. Like I said in the other thread, I don't care if it's a guy, gal or something in between: the content of the writing means more to me than the person writing it.