March 18, 2007

I still remember when America beat Colombia in a soccer game in 94 one of the Colombian players scored a goal for America then later on he was shot down cold I think in front of his home in Colombia It just makes you wonder in every game that's played their is a winner and a loser nobody likes ties how far do people go or how far does a Country go

posted by luther70 at 10:38 AM on March 18, 2007

How bad are the Irish exactly?

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 10:43 AM on March 18, 2007

How bad are the Irish exactly? At what Ying? Cricket? Or other things?

posted by tommybiden at 10:55 AM on March 18, 2007

Pakistan were 132 all out and the Irish scored 133-7 to win by three wickets. Now Pakistani coach Bob Woolmer has been found unconscious in his hotel room and rushed to hospital - no further details about that yet.

posted by Mr Bismarck at 12:33 PM on March 18, 2007

You just don't see a riot after the USA loses big in Olympic Basketball or after the Detroit Red Wings have an early exit to the playoffs. No, the rioting usually occurs after an American team WINS something.

posted by grum@work at 01:12 PM on March 18, 2007

Holy crap, that's unbelievable.

posted by afx237vi at 01:22 PM on March 18, 2007

I agree holden. Also, football and baseball are two of the most popular sports in the United States. There really isn't really any international competition in football (of the American variety that is) and baseball really only had a world competition last year.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:35 PM on March 18, 2007

RIP Bob. :-(

posted by squealy at 03:37 PM on March 18, 2007

That "This doesn't look good" seems slightly incongruous there, rcade. I can't see that someone's death would ever look "good", so I'm left to suppose that you're thinking that there may be something more to it? Like suicide perhaps? Or am I misreading that part? There hasn't been any mention of that only an announcement that he had a "medical condition", but no details have been released.

posted by Mr Bismarck at 04:28 PM on March 18, 2007

If ever there was an advert for contraception... I'm all for peace and harmony, but to be brutally blunt, people like this just need to die. IT'S A FUCKING SPORT YOU STUPID FUCKWITS! GET OVER IT! And now it looks like the coach has been murdered. Just kill all the protestors as they're obviously too stupid to live. God shit like this makes me so fucking angry. Get some fucking perspective! There is so much bad crap in the world WORTH protesting, and these... I can't even use the word people, are protesting a friggin' sports score. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

posted by Drood at 05:00 PM on March 18, 2007

A question for the Commonwealth-types in our midst or those who follow cricket generally -- is Woolmer as an Englishman coaching Pakistan anomalous or is the coaching of national teams by foreigners fairly common (as it is, at least based on my experience, in international football)? Yes, holden, it's quite common. In fact, many sub-continental teams have recruited overseas coaches because they are seen to be free of the political machinations going on in the various national cricket administrations. Team selection policies etc in places like Pakistan are highly controversial. At one stage in recent years Pakistan had a team with six former captains in the line up. Players are millionnaire superstars in their own countries and are mobbed everywhere they go. This often makes the coach's job very difficult, as both Woolmer and Greg Chappell (Australian but now coaching India) have found. The death of Bob Woolmer is still being investigated, I believe. Best not to jump to conclusions. Amazing that the World Cup has produced so much controversy in the first week. With the upsets, the deaths of Woolmer and a couple of international cricketers in Bangladesh in an accident, the England shenanigans etc, it isn't the friendly few weeks in the sun that everybody expected.

posted by owlhouse at 06:42 PM on March 18, 2007

Of course, nothing will actually shut Pointing's enourmous gob Maybe the Kiwis could bring over Richard Loe or Brendan Tuuta? They're always good for an elbow to the face of an Aussie. Ponting might not be very likeable, but least get his name right.

posted by owlhouse at 07:06 PM on March 18, 2007

the reason we pakistani's were rioting and mad was because we have nothing else to cheer for (aside from the worlds best floor hockey team). Our country is in constant turmoil and all we have representing us in the world except for damn terrorists is our cricket team and for them to go down to IRELAND of all countries is crazy. I dont put all the blame on Woolmer (R.I.P.) but rather on our stupid captain Inzimam-Ul-Haq (better known as Inzi). He was too stupid to play Danish Kaneria, one of our best spin bowlers. Also, Younis Khan should be exiled for his horrible performance. How the hell do you get out for 0 against IRELAND?! But in my countries defense, Shoaib Akhtar, Abdur Razzaq, Mohammad Asif, Rana Naved and Shahid Afridi were all injured or suspended and were not able to play. With them we were legit contenders to go all the way. After we lost to Ireland I was, for a brief moment, humiliated to be a Pakistani but then I went over to CBS and saw the Vanderbilt/Washington State game making me realize why College Basketball is the 2nd best sport ever (after cricket of course) lol

posted by arij1234 at 09:39 PM on March 18, 2007

Woolmer was born in India, not South Africa, though obviously Woolmer's reputation as an International coach was made with the South Africans.

posted by Mr Bismarck at 02:15 AM on March 19, 2007

Well, all these issues are worthy topics of debate, no doubt, but aren't we missing the really big story? Freddie fell off his pedalo! Silliness aside, RIP Bob

posted by Abiezer at 05:08 AM on March 19, 2007

"He was born in India, as Bismarck said, but he was English." Which is why the Aussies were singing "You've got the whole world, in your team" to us at the Ashes. We'll have anyone who can handle a bat. Or bowl. And a few that can't.

posted by Mr Bismarck at 07:53 AM on March 19, 2007

Our country is in constant turmoil and all we have representing us in the world except for damn terrorists is our cricket team and for them to go down to IRELAND of all countries is crazy. While I agree with others that rioting in response to a sports result is objectively a silly thing to do, I think we all have to acknowledge that it's something that has happened around the world, and it's no more logical anywhere it happens than it was in Pakistan. That's why the tone of some of the responses in this thread took me a bit by surprise, as if the idea of sports fans rioting is unheard of and the people who rioted in Pakistan are in the grip of some unprecedented madness. College students in the USA riot when their teams lose, baseball fans in the USA riot when their teams win...it ain't just Pakistan by a long shot.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:33 AM on March 19, 2007

Seriously, guys... too much CSI. Step away from David Caruso. [standing over prone, lifeless body] "Looks like this one's... [putting on sunglasses]... all out." [Cue Who music intro.]

posted by holden at 10:43 AM on March 19, 2007

You forgot [turns head]. You also forgot [Hands on hips, as his gaze burns holes in his sunglasses while he stares into an unknown future]

posted by hawkguy at 11:35 AM on March 19, 2007

fraze, I don't think her point was people do the exact same things, just that plenty of other countries' residents behave bizarrely re: sports.

posted by yerfatma at 01:23 PM on March 19, 2007

As long as we're talking cricket: Flintoff stripped of vice-captaincy, left out of Canada game following drunken binge; promises to redeem himself. "There's no secret we had a few drinks on Friday. I'm not disputing it happened and it's something I'm embarrrassed about, ashamed of and I'm suffering the consequences of it. The ins and outs of it, there was water involved and there was a pedalo as well. It's something I don't want to go into in too great detail." (Oh ... Abiezer brought this up above.)

posted by Amateur at 01:46 PM on March 19, 2007

lbb, could you point me in the direction of an article on any U.S. fans who a) held a mock burial of their team after a loss, and/or b) said the players' bank accounts should be frozen and they should be thrown out of the country? I've done quite close to doing the first and have done the second quite a few times when John Navarre was quarterback at Michigan.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:32 PM on March 19, 2007

of rioting after a win or loss, I suspect fans are greatly outnumbered by drunken idiots looking for the chance to loot and break windows. Ok Frazier you have to be from Pakistan or have been to another country in the area and not look at it as an ignorant American. People in America have rarely been united as one under any one sports team with the exception of the U.S. hockey team that beat the U.S.S.R. When one of the countries overrseas or even across the border have a world event, 95% of the people are behind their teams and to be embarrased by a team that is unranked in the Cricket standing s is humiliating to the country. Second, money is the only thing that is important to the Pakistan cricket players. That is because they are extremly lazy people who have enough money so that they do not have to work hard to stay on the team and have people in high positions who will keep them on the team. And finally, 98% of the people in Pakistan are Muslims, and drinking alcohol is prohibited in Islam so obviously they could not all be drunk. And dont call them drunk idiots who are looking for a chance to loot and break windows because that is a very racist comment. PAKISTAN ZINDABAD LETS WIN IN 2011!!! lol

posted by arij1234 at 03:41 PM on March 19, 2007

Uh, were talking about cricket here? Must be a slow day. Most Americans think cricket is something that chirps at night and is also good fishing bait. Shows how much I care. But if it involves looting and killing sign me up!

posted by Ratbast at 06:22 PM on March 19, 2007

As far as I can tell it doesn't involve either looting or killing.

posted by squealy at 06:50 PM on March 19, 2007

And as far as zealotry that blows my mind - West Texas High School Football take the cake. While we of the "The Little Southwest Conference" (Texas District 3-5A) may take our football a little to seriously, we have never had rioting after a win, or a loss, and we always realize that the game is a game, and that the best team on that given day usually wins.

posted by mjkredliner at 07:03 PM on March 19, 2007

This is not an American site. If you don't like the topic of a thread, ignore and go on to another thread. You might want to refresh yourself on the rules and guidelines of membership at sportsfilter. Please show your ignorance elsewhere. To clear up some confusion to my post, to me it doesn't matter if we were talking about cricket or any other sport for that matter. My comment about signing up for the looting and killing was also meant in sarcasim. As far as ignoring this topic, I find that kind of hard considering that this is exactly the problem with the world. If only people would concentrate this kind of enthusiasm towards bigger problems, problems that affect each and everyone of us regardless of what nationality. I love my sports just as much as others, but whenever my favorite teams lose or an umpire makes a bad call at my kids game, I'm not calling for their heads. I'm all for people having national pride and realize for some reason Americans have little when it comes to its national teams. But at some point a line has to be drawn between national pride and national embarassment. By national embarassment I don't just mean a team getting its tail handed to it. What I mean is people taking to the streets like described in the link, killing a player in front of his home for blowing the game or any type of riot after a win or loss. These are all discusions that we shouldn't be having anyway because they should'nt happen in any sport or in any country, America included. Sports are meant to take people away from their problems in life, not add to them.

posted by Ratbast at 07:56 PM on March 19, 2007

To clear up some confusion to my post, to me it doesn't matter if we were talking about cricket or any other sport for that matter..... What I mean is people taking to the streets like described in the link, killing a player in front of his home for blowing the game or any type of riot after a win or loss. You really should try to get the facts straight. No players were killed in front of their homes, or anywhere else for that matter (at least according to the article). The fans held a MOCK burial, not a real burial. They burned effigies, not real people. Though the coach of the Pakistani team died, according to the latest news I've heard, it was because of illness, possibly a complication of his diabetes, or due to breathing difficulties he had been experiencing leading up to the tournament. There has been no real thought of foul play.

posted by tommybiden at 09:01 PM on March 19, 2007

I'm sure you will come up with a way to justify behavior that promotes violence in sporting events. I'm sure I won't.

posted by tommybiden at 09:54 PM on March 19, 2007

Andrés Escobar got shot in front of his home, but [from the linked wiki article]: "The motivation for the murder is unclear; some attribute the murder to the own goal that Escobar scored in the 1994 FIFA World Cup, since that goal brought terrible gambling losses to several drug lords. Another theory is that his death was unrelated to soccer and was instead the result of a bar fight that left several people wounded." So he was either killed because some drug lord didn't manage to launder as much money as he'd planned to or because he got in a fight in a bar. Either way, it had nothing to do with fanatical support for the national team. arij1234 - how do you square accusing someone of making a "very racist comment" and calling them "an ignorant American" in the same post? And since when does one have to either be a Pakistani or have visited a country in the region to know that mock burials and the burning of effigies is an over-reaction to a sporting result? You don't get to explain away irrational, foolish, fanatical behaviour simply by saying "it's how it is around here." I understand there being anger in a country where the standard of living for most isn't up to much compared to the sort of luxury the national cricket team enjoys if that team seems to be losing because it isn't trying, but what makes it ok for that anger to spill over into the sort of extreme behaviour described? Sack the players. Sack the management. Change the sponsors. Do something that will have an impact and fix the problem. Don't burn an effigy of Inzy and pretend to bury Shoib. And don't think either that you have a monopoly on having pride in your national team. I'm Irish and greatly enjoyed watching them beat Pakistan. Despite a lot of comments from a lot of people who should know better, a few people knew that the Irish team had something to offer the tournament, and it was nice to see them prove that.

posted by JJ at 06:55 AM on March 20, 2007

lbb, good enough, although I'll do a little more research on it, as I've never heard of it. Do you think, though, it was fans saying that, or just drunken louts who should have had forced vasectomies? I also think the events reported in my link are much more personal. Those fans are specifically calling out individual players and coaches, not just rioting in general.

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:43 AM on March 20, 2007

That is to say, what entitles us to dismiss one pack of miscreants as drunken louts and not "fans", but refuse to overlook the antics of another set of troublemakers? Convenience and a dedicated effort to not confront my own hypocracies? That's the way I roll. Yeah.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:34 PM on March 20, 2007

I was watching the Pakistani news today and they are saying that Bob Woolmer was murdered by someone. This is the order of events: 1) After the match Woolmer goes to his hotel room 2) Team has dinner at a restaurant; Woolmer not present 3) Woolmer order room service 4) Woolmer not at breakfast the next morning and the team finally goes into his room Woolmer was found dead in his bathroom with vomit everywhere and his skin was yellow. This is an obvious sign that he was poisoned because his body was trying to expel the toxin by throwing up repeatedly. The Jamaican police is investigating

posted by arij1234 at 08:46 PM on March 20, 2007

Looks like Caruso might need those sunglasses after all. Yesterday, the story on the BBC emphasised that the death was being treated as suspicious, but the police we saying that they "would always treat any sudden death - even in the UK - as suspicious until we can prove otherwise." Today the BBC has the exact same story, but has changed the title to "Woolmer's death 'is suspicious" and emphasised that part in the bold lead-in. And now Arij's link. :( Again.

posted by Mr Bismarck at 02:20 AM on March 21, 2007

But as reported on the BBC website: Pakistan Cricket Board spokesman Pervez Mir told a news conference that further investigations were being carried out by medical experts. "Obviously 'suspicious' could be anything at this moment," Mir said. [Emphasis is mine]

posted by squealy at 05:05 AM on March 21, 2007

Pervez Mir has also said: "The police suspect that Woolmer may have been murdered. They have started an investigation'' As reported here. Meanwhile, an Indian TV station has suggested that Pakistan fixed the results of their games against the West Indies and Ireland and that Bob Woolmer was murdered to keep that under wraps. Must be horrendous for his family at the moment.

posted by JJ at 06:12 AM on March 21, 2007

If you wanted to keep a match fixing racket under wraps, then you wouldn't lose to Ireland in the first place. A result like that is going to bring a lot of attention.

posted by afx237vi at 08:49 AM on March 21, 2007

Woolmer's wife has spoken out now, saying that she does not suspect foul play in his death. I hope all of this is cleared up soon.

posted by Mr Bismarck at 11:56 AM on March 21, 2007