11/05/24
November 02, 2006
Kenny Rogers Wins 5th Overall Gold Glove: Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez also honored.
posted by commander cody to baseball at 09:16 PM - 35 comments
All jokes aside, the man stands in the hole, and takes on all comers. Kudos...It ain't easy!
posted by wolfdad at 10:41 PM on November 02, 2006
This is something else the younger Tiger pitchers should learn from him! Sadly, it is something they needed to learn BEFORE the World Series...
posted by grum@work at 10:45 PM on November 02, 2006
Amen grum, Amen.
posted by commander cody at 10:49 PM on November 02, 2006
So many repeat winners, such a useless award. To keep this from being a tiger thread, here's the complete list: P Kenny Rogers Detroit C Ivan Rodriguez Detroit 1B Mark Teixeira Texas 2B Mark Grudzielanek Kansas City 3B Eric Chavez Oakland SS Derek Jeter New York OF Torii Hunter Minnesota OF Ichiro Suzuki Seattle OF Vernon Wells Toronto
posted by justgary at 11:22 PM on November 02, 2006
There were other teams playing this year? To me it was the Tigers and then just one big blur for the other side. :-)
posted by commander cody at 11:48 PM on November 02, 2006
Gary Matthews Jr. doesn't win a Gold Glove? That is a crying shame...
posted by mjkredliner at 11:54 PM on November 02, 2006
To me it was the Tigers and then just one big blur for the other side. :-) Maybe that wasn't a blur, but Kenny Rogers ball "dirt" in your eyes, Captain Smileyface. You know what's a crying shame? Alex Gonzales getting snubbed at SS. Jeter had twice as many errors and a lower fielding percentage.
posted by jerseygirl at 05:10 AM on November 03, 2006
Must be the "intangibles" of defense.
posted by YukonGold at 05:23 AM on November 03, 2006
That's a pretty farcical list. I find a great deal of outfielders pretty interchangable in terms of defense, yet the same three guys get it every year. And Jeter, well - he turns a mean double play, but that's about it. Also - why so excited about Kenny Rogers win? Pudge is the one making history with these things. You guys are in danger of seriously overinflating Rogers. What if he sucks next year?
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:42 AM on November 03, 2006
Actually, Rogers' 5 errors THIS year were a career high for 1 season, and his fielding pct. (.912) was a career low as well. The players and managers vote on this, so they only have themselves to blame.
posted by mjkredliner at 08:28 AM on November 03, 2006
The Motor City love for K. Rogers just proves the old adage is true: "One man's trash is another man's treasure."
posted by Venicemenace at 09:04 AM on November 03, 2006
So many repeat winners, It seems that the Gold Glove awards do go to too many past recipients. My list: P Jake Westbrook CLE C Ivan Rodriguez DET 1B Mark Teixeira TEX 2B Mark Grudzielanek KC 3B Mike Lowell BOS SS Michael Young TEX OF Grady Sizemore CLE Curtis Granderson DET Ichiro Suzuki SEA These picks were based on my interpretation of the stats. Which of course are open for debate. But, it would be good to see other winners who truly deserve the award for their performance based on the season at hand and not past accomplishments.
posted by sterlingsilver at 10:09 AM on November 03, 2006
Anyone want to get some NL predictions going before they're announced later today? Here are my guesses (who I think will win; who I think should win is in parentheses if different): P He Whose Name Shall Not be Spoken (Whore Slayer) C Brad Ausmus (Yadier Molina) 1B Albert Pujols 2B Orlando Hudson 3B Scott Rolen SS Omar Vizquel (Rafael Furcal) OF Carlos Beltran OF Andruw Jones (Dave Roberts) OF Jim Edmonds (Mike Cameron)
posted by holden at 10:27 AM on November 03, 2006
The Motor City love for K. Rogers just proves the old adage is true: "One man's trash is another man's treasure." I think it's a case of KR finally finding a good fit. I don't know why he didn't try the team out sooner as he seems to be a real Detroit kind of guy. Shame it has to be at the tail end of his career instead of at the start, but I hope the young pitchers take this golden opportunity to learn.
posted by commander cody at 11:20 AM on November 03, 2006
Also - why so excited about Kenny Rogers win? Pudge is the one making history with these things. You guys are in danger of seriously overinflating Rogers. What if he sucks next year? If he does suck then he'll probably get a job at the Lions head office working for Millian.
posted by commander cody at 12:05 PM on November 03, 2006
CC, what defines "a real Detroit kind of guy'?
posted by DrJohnEvans at 12:57 PM on November 03, 2006
I don't know. There really isn't a description. It's just a feeling. Maybe it's his spirit or his enthusiasm. For instance even though he was a terrible manager, Alan Trammel was a real Detroit kind of guy. Surprisingly enough even though he'll never be in the HOF so was Tommy Brookens. He came to play everyday like Stevie Y did and I guess that's as close as I can come.
posted by commander cody at 01:11 PM on November 03, 2006
I agree...useless award for the favorites. I am also as perplexed as you, Jersey, why one guy with more errors and a lower fielding percentage wins the award for the best defender at his position. Might just be intangables...I mean this is Derek Jeter were talking about. I think guys really try to hit the ball harder to him, or in such a way by which he is challenged more than other guys. Gold glove justification complete...next question.
posted by sydney2006 at 03:49 PM on November 03, 2006
I don't know why he didn't try the team out sooner as he seems to be a real Detroit kind of guy. Probably the same reason just about every other free agent didn't, because the Tigers were terrible. Dombrowski has done an excellent job recruiting free agents to come to Detroit, but he has also had some better selling points. Under Randy Smith, Detroit was the place nobody wants to go; thankfully that has changed.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 04:12 PM on November 03, 2006
I am also as perplexed as you, Jersey, why one guy with more errors and a lower fielding percentage wins the award for the best defender at his position. In the general sense, fielding percentage/errors aren't the only indicator of a fielder's ability. Other factors that have to be taken into account are range (if you get to more batted balls, you have more of an opportunity to bungle them) and assists (if you are turning more double plays or making attempts on longer throws from deeper in the hole, you have more of an opportunity to chuck one into the stands).
posted by grum@work at 04:30 PM on November 03, 2006
I can see that Ying Yang. I think it's taking a page out of the RedWings book (Thanks Mike Ilitch). Build a good home team and then talk free agents into coming along. After awhile free agents who are great players playing on poor teams will sign up as a chance to win a championship before their career is over and the team only gets better. Shame Mike doesn't own the Lions too or that Millian is too stoooopid to see what he's doing.
posted by commander cody at 04:37 PM on November 03, 2006
good job by Grudzielanek winning his first, a bright spot for the royals. And i'd agree that Gary Matthews Jr. should have gotten one, but i can't argue legitimately against any of the three outfielders that they chose, myself.
posted by boredom_08 at 06:03 PM on November 03, 2006
Seriously, cody, you need to tone down the homericity. This isn't a Detroit-specific website. Besides, everyone knows Trammel was much more Boise, Idaho than Detroit.
posted by Ufez Jones at 07:32 PM on November 03, 2006
True it's not Ufez, but I was speaking so much about the Tigers and the Golden Glove because that's how the article I posted was titled. Besides there's nothing wrong with being an enthusiastic fan of your team. I've never been to Boise so I guess it's possible Trammel may be more Boise then Detroit. That said there's still no doubt that Brookens was a Detroit kind of guy.
posted by commander cody at 09:27 PM on November 03, 2006
I'm not trying to bust your balls, cody, but finding a link that is basically about the AL Gold Gloves that highlights Tiger players and posting here as a rah rah Tigers! thing is a bit disingenuous. As a Rangers fan, I have a lot of love for Pudge (damn Tom Hicks) and Kenny (damn you for punching a cameraman). I've cheered both of them on here in the metroplex, and have a lot of respect for their skills. All I'm asking is that you quit framing a larger point into a local team-specific or city-specific parade. It makes for a bad Homer Homer! point on SpoFi which draws in the trolls.
posted by Ufez Jones at 11:52 PM on November 03, 2006
I know you're not trying to bust my balls and I'm not arguing, just disagreeing. I honestly don't think I rah rah my favorite teams anymore then anyone else here and in fact less then many. Just my opinion. Just a difference of opinion.
posted by commander cody at 12:00 AM on November 04, 2006
Fair enough, cody. Maybe there's just been a lot of Detroit-related stuff around here lately, which is understandable. Kind of like the Steelers last year, I guess. Hell, maybe I'm still just pissed that the Wings beat the Stars a few days back. Back on topic: NL winners: C - Ausmus 1B - Pujols 2B - Hudson SS - Vizquel 3B - Rolen OF - Beltran OF - Cameron OF - A. Jones P - Maddux, his record-tying 16th(!) The only first-timers this year are Pujols and Beltran. Holden did pretty well, nailing 8 of 9.
posted by Ufez Jones at 11:03 AM on November 04, 2006
Fair enough Ufez. I think it's probably because of their first pennant in a long time, etc. I'm sure it'll die down and I'll do my best not to be too rah rah. :-) So Pujols. Great bat, but Gold Glove? I don't follow National League ball much, but I haven't heard that he's a fantastic fielder.
posted by commander cody at 12:09 PM on November 04, 2006
I'm not sure there are any real fielding wizards in the NL at first base, but I agree about Pujols. He's always appeared to be a bit stiff in the field to me. He ran with his back to the plate after that one foul pop this year and practically blew out his whole leg.
posted by dyams at 12:27 PM on November 04, 2006
I'm not sure there are any real fielding wizards in the NL at first base, but I agree about Pujols. He's always appeared to be a bit stiff in the field to me. He ran with his back to the plate after that one foul pop this year and practically blew out his whole leg. I watched a lot of the Cardinals this year and I would say Pujols at first is very solid, if not particularly flashy. The problem with Pujols is that he moves awkwardly (he is a fairly big guy and he has had nagging foot/leg injuries throughout his career, so he just doesn't look smooth in the field (unlike someone like Derrek Lee, who is downright silky). I'm a bit biased, but I think his Gold Glove is fairly well deserved. He owes it in no small part, however, to the fact that Derrek Lee was out this year. It probably could also have gone to Hatteberg, Adrian Gonzalez or Delgado.
posted by holden at 02:23 PM on November 04, 2006
I am also biased on the Pujols side, but he did make some great plays throughout the season, and in the playoffs, although that didn't count before the vote. He may look stiff and such, but he gets the job done, doesn't he? Fielding percentage wise, he was tied for second in the NL, and he only made six errors. He gets the job done.
posted by boredom_08 at 04:17 PM on November 05, 2006
In the general sense, fielding percentage/errors aren't the only indicator of a fielder's ability. Other factors that have to be taken into account are range (if you get to more batted balls, you have more of an opportunity to bungle them) and assists (if you are turning more double plays or making attempts on longer throws from deeper in the hole, you have more of an opportunity to chuck one into the stands). posted by grum@work Compared to Gonzalez, Jeter had a lower fielding percentage (.975 to .985), a lower zone rating (4.14 to 4.36) and a lower range factor (.821 to .863), which means Jeter made a higher percentage of errors per chance, got to less balls hit to his area of the field, and made fewer plays per nine defensive innings. (Besides that he was great.) Jeter is 10 times the player Gonzalez is, and not near the fielder. It just shows that even having players vote isn't the answer to giving these awards legitimacy. And this isn't just about jeter and gonzalez, those are just two players I'm very familiar with and saw the entire year. But if that choice is bogus, and it is, I'm not sure how much confidence I have in the rest. I don't think statements like this: Pine tar or no pine tar, the old man is still the best fielding pitcher in the American League. ...means anything. Even most yankee fans seem to question the decision (a few are happy it upsets boston fans). I think most real baseball fans would rather have valid awards regardless of the player that wins (and the team he represents). I honestly don't think I rah rah my favorite teams anymore then anyone else here and in fact less then many. It's not that you're 'rah rah' about your team. It's that you took an award that has just as much to do with every team in the majors and made it about the tigers in the post, when it should have been in a comment. No blood, no foul.
posted by justgary at 02:53 PM on November 06, 2006
This is also seems like the hardest thing to argue, statistically that is. Even those who are really comfortable with statistical analysis always seem to start any conversation about defense with some kind of excuse for how the stats they have to work with suck to begin with. Maybe that just lends itself to picking the guy who everyone "feels" is the best defender. That morphs itself into who's the best player and then you leave the voting to managers, a group of individuals who on the whole could seem to give a crap about anything that doesn't directly impact their team or their employment status. I've just decided to not care next year. MVP and Cy Young awards are however something that can be accurately debated (so in other words...brace yourself)
posted by YukonGold at 05:12 PM on November 06, 2006
MVP and Cy Young awards are however something that can be accurately debated (so in other words...brace yourself) posted by YukonGold I strongly disagree. Yes, defensive stats are relatively new, and debated, but that doesn't mean they lack credibility. Stats can easily show Jeter wasn't the best defensive shortstop, something the coaches couldn't do. Not to mention all the extra that goes into choosing an mvp award. Can a dh win? Pitcher? What if the best stats guy played on a losing team? What if the guy slightly ahead in stats had a much better team around him. What if one of the guys is a shortstop and one a left fielder? Picking an mvp is much more complicated. None of that comes into picking a gold glove winner, and yet the award has been so abused as to be meaningless. It shouldn't be that way. Picking a gold glove winner should be much more accurate than an mvp (except in years when one player is head and shoulders above everyone else).
posted by justgary at 10:08 PM on November 13, 2006
Whoooo Rah! Pine tar or no pine tar, the old man is still the best fielding pitcher in the American League. This is something else the younger Tiger pitchers should learn from him!