11/05/24
November 01, 2006
Is it that time already?: Pitchers Barry Zito and Greg Maddux led the parade of 143 players who filed for free agency yesterday. Here's the full list of those heading for possibly greener pastures, including recent World Series participants Sean Casey and Jeff Weaver. Who goes where, who do you hope your team lands ... and who gets Daisuke Matsuzaka?
Where will Bonds DH next year?
posted by qbert72 at 12:28 PM on November 01, 2006
It's a question of how much Matsuzaka is worth. And will the Yankees really pay for Suppan?
posted by yerfatma at 12:30 PM on November 01, 2006
And will the Yankees really pay for Suppan? Because of his postseason and because the Yankees have an extremely retarded understanding of signing good pitching, yes, they will. I expect a three-year, $21-24M deal from New York, and I expect Soup to take it, mainly because he's not an idiot.
posted by wfrazerjr at 12:45 PM on November 01, 2006
Where will Bonds DH next year? Whichever team is dumb enough to employ the Terrell Owens of baseball.
posted by irunfromclones at 12:55 PM on November 01, 2006
I guess this is adios, Doug Mirabelli.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:05 PM on November 01, 2006
If Suppan comes back to the AL, his 5.0 ERA will come back as well.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:09 PM on November 01, 2006
I guess this is adios, Doug Mirabelli. At least until June when they fly him back the afternoon before one of Wakefield's starts.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 01:17 PM on November 01, 2006
Adios, Mirabelli? Didn't Boston pick up Wakefield's option? Suppan, hey, at least he doesn't wilt like some others do in the postseason.
posted by mjkredliner at 01:19 PM on November 01, 2006
I gotta like the Mariner's chances to land Daisuke. The ownership knows how to close the door on these complex deals where a large sum has to be paid simply for the rights to negotiate with the player. In Japanese negotiations there is alot of nuance and nobody is better positioned to take advantage of that than Seattle. Plus having an up-and-coming Japanese catcher could make this a really fun battery to watch for years to come.
posted by vito90 at 01:41 PM on November 01, 2006
I doubt they're going to bring Mirabelli back. They acquired a catcher from SD for Wells and I would guess they're going to get him familiar with the knuckler this offseason. Just my opinion.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:42 PM on November 01, 2006
Suppan, hey, at least he doesn't wilt like some others do in the postseason. He's only been to the post-season with the NL. Boston traded for him and I don't think he saw any time in 03 in the post.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:43 PM on November 01, 2006
I would think the Yankees would go hard for Matasuzaka, and that Zito is going to be offered a shitload to be a Met, from what I'm hearing. Jeff Suppan? I think he's going to be able to parlay one extraordinary post-season into an albatross contract with an impressive wingspan. (Aside - no JP. Just no.)
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:51 PM on November 01, 2006
Where will Bonds DH next year? The other day a sports radio host in Detroit entertained the idea that maybe bringing in Bonds would put the Tigers over the top. Needless to say, Tigers fans literally freaked out. I would hate to see Bonds in a Tigers uniform, and would prefer to have him stay on the west coast as far away from Comerica Park as possible.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:25 PM on November 01, 2006
I doubt they're going to bring Mirabelli back. [reasoned response] That and the fact he's apparently a complete cock-knocker with an over-developed sense of self-worth who doesn't work. Not sure who likes him on the team, other than Wakefield's agent. Suppan didn't see any time in the '03 post-season because he sucked enough in the '03 regular season. But at least we got rid of Freddy Sanchez.
posted by yerfatma at 02:27 PM on November 01, 2006
As a Cardinals fan, I've seen enough of Suppan in the past few years to know that he will get killed by patient teams that don't swing at junk just out of the zone, of which there are a number in the AL and, more specifically, in the AL East (although if he went to the Yankees he would be playing for one of them). The difference between Suppan's performance in the '04 Series and in this one is that the '04 Red Sox were a supremely patient team while this year's Tigers were largely a bunch of hackers. I like Suppan -- he's a gamer and is very reliable (if reliable in his averageness/mediocrity) -- but he's going to get paid way more than he's worth and I'm glad the Cardinals aren't going to be the ones doing it.
posted by holden at 02:42 PM on November 01, 2006
Amen,Ying Yang.
posted by sickleguy at 03:29 PM on November 01, 2006
But at least we got rid of Freddy Sanchez. And Mike Gonzalez (54 G, 2.17 ERA, 24 SV) That Suppan thing is a laugh and will only get funnier when it happens (whoever signs him...I'm looking at you George). If I'm an AL GM, I'm not touching any NL pitcher right now unless they have some serious history of success in the AL, not that it exists. When Miguel Batista and El Duque are your most attractive options it's time to just stop looking. It's not worth getting your hopes up and seeing your prize carry a Josh Beckett-esque 5.01 ERA in the transition. The Zito thing will be interesting because he'll get paid with a capital P. I just don't know that he's really gonna be the boost the team that signs him expects. Except of course with the A's...they really should keep him but the dollars will probably prohibit it.
posted by YukonGold at 03:58 PM on November 01, 2006
Zito is going to be offered a shitload to be a Met, from what I'm hearing. I should have clarified my statement about Zito specifically to AL teams. A move to the NL will definitely be more apparent. The Mets could be a great fit.
posted by YukonGold at 04:06 PM on November 01, 2006
Except of course with the A's...they really should keep him but the dollars will probably prohibit it. Regarding Zito, history tells us that they won't keep him but it would make lots of sense for them to figure a way to do it. Also they should keep Thomas, he had a way better year than I think anyone expected. If they lose Thomas they can go get Bonds from across the Bay. As an Angels Fan I don't want to see Thomas or Bonds playing home games at Angel Stadium next year...but Zito would be interesting.
posted by Termite at 04:14 PM on November 01, 2006
I agree about Suppan. He works hard but only fools the foolish. Does give a lot of innings but also a lot of runs. The Cardinals score a lot of runs and field behind him. Not everywhere he might go in the A.L. will be like that. But he will be vastly overpaid based on the weird market for pitchers. Albert Puhols would kill him.
posted by rchugh at 04:31 PM on November 01, 2006
I should mention I do not dislike Jeff Suppan, it's just he and I had a Gentleman's Agreement to stay away from each other after he turned out to not be The Next Greg Maddux when he came up with the Sox.
posted by yerfatma at 05:02 PM on November 01, 2006
Finally, no more Aaron Boone. If we are lucky enough.
posted by jojomfd1 at 06:01 PM on November 01, 2006
The smartest thing that the MLBPA ever did was that after they won the Curt Flood decision creating free agency the were "generous" enough to compromise with the owners. When the players won the case they actually won the right to be free agents every year. Marvin Miller (as the union chief) offered that the players would be ok with every six years or so. The owners of course stupidly bit at this offer thinking that Miller was an idiot. How does this all relate to today? You end up with idiots, like George for example, paying a Suppan $24 million over three years because he just happens to be the best guy out there. If players were all free agents every year why would I sign Bonds for $10-12 million when I could sign Pujols?
posted by kyrilmitch_76 at 08:59 PM on November 01, 2006
Steinbrenner will pay Suppan or who ever's out there the millions that these players want just to try and have the best team there is. (on paper that is). It'll be interesting to see how many millions he spends this off season. Suppan did ok in the NL. His ERA will blow up over 5.50 if he comes back to the AL. George will welcome him back to the AL with open arms.
posted by Ghastly1 at 09:47 PM on November 01, 2006
The Mariners announced today they will not pursue Daisuke.
posted by vito90 at 01:36 AM on November 02, 2006
Well, I.m putting my money on the Astro's doing what they do every year(sans , the Clemens year) and that is absolutely nothing
posted by texasred at 04:49 AM on November 02, 2006
Who honestly would not like Soriano on their team? Very few teams will meet his asking price, the Astros could afford him with the money they paid Clemens or Pettitte last year. I hope no team needs a switch hitting CF with a line like .313, 19, 79 from the leadoff spot and is the reason center is the wrong part of the park to hit it at Ameriquest Field, I like him right where he is. Carlos Lee's lumber will draw big money, and of course, someone will take a chance on Nomar staying healthy, too. I don't figger Suppan's ERA will be much higher than his career mark of 4.60, the Al isn't THAT superior, and facing a DH won't cost him a run a game.
posted by mjkredliner at 05:45 AM on November 02, 2006
The Mariners announced today they will not pursue Daisuke. That seems strange on the face of it. Not strange that they wouldn't want to fork over the cash, but strange they would announce it and improve competitors' bargaining positions, unless they're hoping everyone follows suit and waits 'til next year when he's a free agent.
posted by yerfatma at 06:20 AM on November 02, 2006
The Phillies will be heavy in the market for Soriano. He'd be the protection that Ryan Howard didn't have this year. They cleared out Abreu's salary, they're out from under Mike Lieberthal and if they'll probably unload a portion of Pat Burrell's salary. Philadelphia Daily News says: Sources said the Phillies could offer as much as $15 million a season over 5 years, though published reports say Soriano will want $17 million per over 7 years, a deal like Carlos Beltran got from the Mets 2 years ago. That Daily News story also says the Phils, along with the Indians, Red Sox and Padres, are interested 27 year-old Japanese third baseman Akinori Iwamura.
posted by SummersEve at 08:07 AM on November 02, 2006
Seems odd that the Sox would want Iwamura- Lowell had a solid enough season you'd think that 3rd base is the least of their problems.
posted by tieguy at 08:32 AM on November 02, 2006
Besides the fact that Boston has to find a catcher, a shortstop, a right fielder, pitching, a closer and a bullpen. Third base should be the least of their worries.
posted by jerseygirl at 09:17 AM on November 02, 2006
Maybe I'm just too scarred from the pre-Foulke bullpen, but the idea of Papelbon becoming a starter horrifies me- you too, jg?
posted by tieguy at 10:27 AM on November 02, 2006
My cubbies need pitching I hope they can get Zito or lose millions to the japanese guy and even though I'll miss him somewhat I don't care if they resign Ramirez either way unless they can do some trades I don't see them getting a whole lot this offseason unless they can sign Carlos Lee I have alway wanted to see him in cubbie blue ever since he hit three hr's vs the cubs a few years back in the city series
posted by luther70 at 11:07 AM on November 02, 2006
I think he'll be okay, tieguy. Obviously, he's not going to carry a sub 1.00 ERA. But I think he's just a tough competitive kid and will do well as a starter too. He didn't come up as a closer.
posted by jerseygirl at 11:25 AM on November 02, 2006
I think Papelbon will do well as a starter. Of course he won't have that low ERA because he was a closer. Of course as a starter he'll pitch more innings. But if he pitches anywhere near as he did as a closer, I think he'll be ok. If not ,they can always put him back in the closer role in which he did so well. Like you said jerseygirl, he's a tough, competitive kid. You could see that look on his face and in his eyes every time he got the ball last year. Hopefully he'll do well as a starter. He's still young. Any one know his exact age? I can't seem to remember.(between22-25 maybe?)
posted by Ghastly1 at 11:55 AM on November 02, 2006
jerseygirl,do you think the sox need a catcher to replace Veriteck,or are you thinking of a back-up for him? Pitching they definetly need. No question. Also the infield seemed to be at the top of the league if I remember right. Just wondering if something happened since the end of the season that I'm not aware of.
posted by Ghastly1 at 12:00 PM on November 02, 2006
I don't figger Suppan's ERA will be much higher than his career mark of 4.60, the Al isn't THAT superior, and facing a DH won't cost him a run a game. I disagree with that completely. The AL is THAT superior. Here's four of the most recent big name NL > AL converts that I can think of and comparing their ERAs in both leagues. Josh Beckett - 3.38 // 5.01 Randy Johnson - 2.60 // 3.79, 5.00 Matt Clement - 3.68 // 4.57, 6.61 AJ Burnett - 3.44 // 3.98 Javier Vazquez - 3.24 // 4.91 It's easily a full run. Plus, I don't think Suppan is going to be held in the graces that any of these pitchers were. Suppan would be lucky to stay below 5.50 As for the Red Sox, they should resign Alex Gonzalez. They probably won't given the man-crush they have on Julio Lugo, but they should make it simple and keep a gold glover. Right field is already in house, Wily Mo Pena. Closer is tbd, but I think at the end of it all they give the ball back to Foulke. Papelbon is done as a closer. It was nice while it was there but they're not gonna over work him now, way too risky. Their focus should be on finding a legitimate starter and getting quality in the bullpen. Provided they don't lose their minds and trade Manny, offense shouldn't need to be a focus.
posted by YukonGold at 12:13 PM on November 02, 2006
I think they should look at other options than Wily Mo Pena as their right fielder No doubt. I agree on signing Alex Gonzalez. As for Foulk,see what kind of a spring he has(I know spring means shit)but see if he can get back to, or at least near, to what he used to be. And do what ever it takes to keep Manny here in Boston. Manny and Ortiz back to back is hard to replace. But Wily Mo? Ehhh, kinda iffy on that one.
posted by Ghastly1 at 01:53 PM on November 02, 2006
The AL is THAT superior. Yukon, you may be right. But, there are pitchers who have fared worse in the NL, off the top of my head, Hudson and Mulder.
posted by mjkredliner at 01:58 PM on November 02, 2006
Mulder just fared worse THIS year. Last year, with STL, he had a better ERA than he did in his last year with OAK.
posted by jerseygirl at 02:16 PM on November 02, 2006
Oh, I think he'll be a fine starter, I just liked going into the 9th with confidence instead of fear, and I'm assuming we'll revert back to fear this year, which won't be fun.
posted by tieguy at 09:24 PM on November 02, 2006
Have the BoSox given up on Hansen as the closer of the future?
posted by ajaffe at 09:53 PM on November 02, 2006
Have the BoSox given up on Hansen as the closer of the future? I don't know what they are doing with Hansen or Delcarmen for that matter. I'd presume they're in the bullpen again next season.
posted by jerseygirl at 05:14 AM on November 03, 2006
Hansen better re-invigorate himself as a quality reliever next season. The dude makes more money than Youk.
posted by Venicemenace at 05:51 AM on November 03, 2006
Looks as if Minnesota will be in the market for some pitching also. Appears that injury was a lot worse than what they originally said. I bet that Sept. start didn't help much. But, hey they can only go on what he tells them hurts.
posted by jojomfd1 at 03:56 PM on November 03, 2006
The AL is THAT superior. You might want to wait more than 7 days after the NL champs just won the World Series to start spouting that again. Especially when the NL champs are, in terms of regular season games won, the worst World Series champ ever. No disrespect, Cardinals fan, I was rooting for you all the way, but 83 wins is 83 wins. Here's four of the most recent big name NL > AL converts that I can think of and comparing their ERAs in both leagues. Josh Beckett - 3.38 // 5.01 Randy Johnson - 2.60 // 3.79, 5.00 Matt Clement - 3.68 // 4.57, 6.61 AJ Burnett - 3.44 // 3.98 Javier Vazquez - 3.24 // 4.91 Apart from the fact that other factors, such as Johnson's age might have more to do with his ERA than switching leagues, a comparison like this is worthless unless you factor in the DH. Not only does the DH drive up the ERA but, to me, it also diminishes the quality of play in the AL.
posted by cjets at 05:30 PM on November 03, 2006
You might want to wait more than 7 days after the NL champs just won the World Series to start spouting that again. I'd make that statement today, tomorrow, 6 months from now, 6 years from now even after the NL won 6 WS in a row. My point had nothing to do with the ability to win the world series, but much more to do with making financial decisions with NL pitchers who switch leagues and then dissapoint statistically. When the Red Sox traded two top prospects for Josh Beckett, they expected a solid top of the rotation pitcher. His time in Florida indicated that through both results and statistics. What they got was a player who dropped from being ranked 34th in ML VORP to 106th (2005 vs 2006). It's more difficult to stand out as an elite pitcher in the AL and if you bring in a NL player, you should expect a drop off in more than just ERA. The DH has a whole lot to do with that, but I don't believe I ever indicated any differently.
posted by YukonGold at 07:30 PM on November 03, 2006
a comparison like this is worthless unless you factor in the DH. Cool. In case Yukon forgot his point, you reminded him. The AL eats mediocre pitchers in a way the NL does not. I don't see the argument. Where are the NL equivalents of the Yankees, Sox or As?
posted by yerfatma at 08:27 PM on November 03, 2006
Where are the NL equivalents of the Yankees, Sox or As? Until the introduction of the "humidor", there used to be a park that chewed up pitchers from the home AND away team: Colorado.
posted by grum@work at 08:47 PM on November 03, 2006
Right, but that team didn't do it on the road and they didn't do it by racking up pitch counts.
posted by yerfatma at 11:14 AM on November 05, 2006
I hope the Royals land any pitcher with an ERA under 5.00.