11/05/24
January 09, 2006
#42 Bruce Sutter HOF Lock: The Man Who Changed The Face of Baseball. A guarantee by sportsfilter's own skydivedad.
Actually Hall of Induction Ceremony is schelduled for July 30th 2006, Hall of Fame Weekend July 28th -31st. Your alot like my younger brother who comes up with some technical crap when he won't pay a bet he's clearly lost. I do appreciate your thinking concerning Bruce Sutter but I disagree about his chances obviously.
posted by skydivedad at 08:49 PM on January 09, 2006
"Hi. Can I join? Not yet? Okay then. I'll be back next year. Bye."
posted by grum@work at 12:04 AM on January 10, 2006
The Hall of Fame is becoming the hall of shame. How is it possible that BERT BLYLEVEN and AL OLIVER are not nor probably will not gain entry. We all know about Blyleven, but if you arent familiar with Al Oliver, check his stats!
posted by LiveWithIt at 12:44 AM on January 10, 2006
I really would like to see Gossage and Sutter get in.
posted by jbou at 12:50 AM on January 10, 2006
Here are Al Olivers career regular season stats. Believe it or not, they are comparable to the great Roberto Clemente! AND they are far better than Enos Slaughter who is also in the Hall. 18 Seasons BA.... . 303 Hits...2743 RBI... 1326 Total Bases... 4083 OnBase%... .344 Slugging%... .451 Fielding%... .986 (In center field!) Pretty damn good if you ask me!!!
posted by LiveWithIt at 01:06 AM on January 10, 2006
That's great, except Roberto Clemente did two crucial things Al Oliver didn't. He helped open up Latin America to baseball and did an amazing amount of charity work in Puerto Rico, and he died young helping out the earthquake victims in Nicaragua. Neither one of those had anything to do with his on-field work, but if you don't think they mattered to the voters, you're deluding yourself. Al Oliver was a hell of a player, and he even won a batting title. But no chance is he going to make it. Even in this year, the weakest in memory, he's not even in the top half-dozen candidates. Sorry, LiveWithIt. It ain't happening.
posted by chicobangs at 03:46 AM on January 10, 2006
Oh, and a third thing: Roberto Clemente made it to 3,000 hits. That's the magic number of all magic numbers as far as HoF stats go. No one cares about fielding percentage unless it's legendary, and no one in that era was better than Clemente as an outfielder. His arm was as good as anyone's, ever. Say that about Al oliver with a straight face. I dare you.
posted by chicobangs at 03:50 AM on January 10, 2006
Your alot like my younger brother who comes up with some technical crap when he won't pay a bet he's clearly lost Except your brother doesn't work on the Baseball Encyclopedia, does he? IIRC, spira does, so maybe he has a valid opinion too.
posted by yerfatma at 06:21 AM on January 10, 2006
Sutter would become the first pitcher with no career starts admitted to the Hall. I'd like to see that happen -- the Hall's been slow to recognize relievers as the force in the game they've become the last 20 years.
posted by rcade at 07:36 AM on January 10, 2006
Bert is still my choice. The HOF voting will once again be a pile of sh---- if he doesnt make it. Bert, however, is taking a more laid back apporach.check this out"> It even gives a little pitch for Jack Morris.
posted by daddisamm at 08:04 AM on January 10, 2006
Sutter would become the first pitcher with no career starts with only 3 relievers currently in the HOF (Eckersley, Fingers, Hoyt Wilhelm) This is long overdue. Sutter, Gossage were the primier relievers of their generation and 100 inning season were the norm. Purely on save stats (Sutters 300 and Gossage 310) neither is in the top 10 all-time. These guys churned out innings something the ultra-modern reliever is rarely asked to do. There are other stats screaming for Sutter to be elected to the HOF, lead the NL in saves 5 of 6 years which no other reliever in any league has done, top 4 in saves in his league 8 years in a row only duplicated by Fingers. There are more but being a Reliever who changed how the game is played, now that's real HOF material.
posted by skydivedad at 08:42 AM on January 10, 2006
OH, I know Oliver wont make it, just making a point. They are talking about Jim Rice etc...whos stats dont match Olivers. As far as Clemente, he was my idol! The best player I ever seen! Roberto was a God!
posted by LiveWithIt at 08:47 AM on January 10, 2006
They are talking about Jim Rice etc...whos stats dont match Olivers. Even as a Sox fan, I don't know if I would vote Rice in, simply because his brilliance was rather short-lived. Having said that: Rice's Career OPS+ was 128 in 16 seasons Oliver's Career OPS+ was 121 in 18 seasons 2 more years, but a lower overall offensive value. I think Rice's stats match up.
posted by yerfatma at 09:26 AM on January 10, 2006
What about Ron Santo,the man put up comparable numbers and did it all while dealing with diabetes.
posted by cubfan79 at 10:37 AM on January 10, 2006
cubfan79 Ron Santo isn't on the writers ballot and hasn't been in many years. His fate is in the hands of the veterans committee. The next veterans committee election isn't schelduled until 2007, since 2003 they meet every 2 years. Former players no longer on the Writers Ballots may be considered if they have been retired for 21 years and have at least 10 years or portions of 10 years in the Bigs. Negro League Players prior to 1946 and the ML combined for 10 years. I'll make a case for Ron Santo when it's a little closer time wise.
posted by skydivedad at 10:52 AM on January 10, 2006
Sutter and Gossage belong as does Blylevin. I agree that Rices great years were fairly short. I think HOF's are those who carreers were consistant and talents were without doubt. You can't put everyone in who's carreer was up and down. It would make the hall watered down, which by the way it is getting to that point anyway. Gossage and sutter dominated for a long time and were consistant. They do not water down the hall. They should have been there already. It took Tony Perez several times to make it and I even though I saw his whole carreer still think he was a marginal pick. And I was and still am a reds fan. Tony was not a great glove man or a great base runner and did not hit for average. I think you need all the tools to be in.
posted by dkern at 11:35 AM on January 10, 2006
Rice was probably the most devastating hitter of his era. His numbers are borderline and he obviously didn't do himself any favors by being such a dick to the press. He was also my most favoritist player growing up. I'm on pins and needles today, fingers crossed, hoping for Jim Ed.
posted by vito90 at 11:42 AM on January 10, 2006
He's in! :) Bruce Sutter Elected to MLB Hall of Fame! He's going in Solo!
posted by skydivedad at 01:04 PM on January 10, 2006
I feel bad for Jim Rice.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:11 PM on January 10, 2006
That's good. Maybe this will open things up for some other relievers in the future. (Way to call it, skydivedad!) Blyleven's getting more votes every year. I hope he gets there eventually.
posted by chicobangs at 01:14 PM on January 10, 2006
Bert Blyleven accomplishments are not to be overlooked and I believe with all the great 1st timers next year being offensive players, Mr. Blyleven will get in as the pitcher of choice. Here's a link to a great article on Bert Blyleven
posted by skydivedad at 01:21 PM on January 10, 2006
I feel bad for Willie McGee.
posted by mbd1 at 01:33 PM on January 10, 2006
I'm glad to see that the support for Blyleven continues to grow. At this rate, he might make the HOF by his final year of eligibility (2012). If I remember correctly, it gets pretty tough for long-time ballot-hangers-on starting next year. There is a crop of BIG name players coming through: (2006) Harold Baines Tony Gwynn Mark McGwire Cal Ripken (2007) Tim Raines (2008) Rickey Henderson (2009 - if they stay retired) Roberto Alomar Andres Galarraga Barry Larkin Edgar Martinez
posted by grum@work at 01:41 PM on January 10, 2006
Just an aside. Players can no longer choose what uniform they wear into the HOF. Some were charging teams to wear their uniform and it was taken out of the players hands and is now decided by the HOF. Anyway, I could make great arguments for Bruce Sutter in Cards or Cubs Gear and I'm OK either way but it was real nice to see him in Cubbie Blue on the Official HOF Announcement today. I'm hoping that's their choice.
posted by skydivedad at 02:08 PM on January 10, 2006
I remember Steve Garvey playing for the Dodgers when I was growing up - I'm sure there's probably a good reason, but why is he not in the HOF? He was outstanding as I remember (at least until he went to the Padres).
posted by yellowjacket at 02:48 PM on January 10, 2006
If Bruce Sutter doesn't go into the Hall wearing a Cards cap and jumping into Darrell Porter's arms after whiffing Gorman Thomas to the end the 1982 World Series, I'll eat his bronze hat. Am I right about all that stuff? I didn't check.
posted by wfrazerjr at 02:50 PM on January 10, 2006
Looking ahead to 2006, I'd say that Ripken and Gwynn are mortal locks, and McGwire and Baines are 50-50. I can't see any of the holdovers squeezing in. Beyond that, I think Rickey is the only other mortal lock - there should be some room for a holdover or two through 2009. Garvey is a HOVGer.
posted by mbd1 at 03:17 PM on January 10, 2006
I remember Steve Garvey playing for the Dodgers when I was growing up - I'm sure there's probably a good reason, but why is he not in the HOF? Here's a breakdown of Garvey's numbers, as well as some of the reasons maybe baseball writers haven't exactly rolled out the HOF red carpet.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:17 PM on January 10, 2006
Beyond that, I think Rickey is the only other mortal lock - there should be some room for a holdover or two through 2009. I think Roberto Alomar is a lock for the HOF. If he doesn't get in on the first ballot, he'll get in on the 2nd or 3rd for sure. Tim Raines is another guy I'd want to get into the HOF, but if he doesn't then I'd understand. I've stated previous criteria about making the HOF, and even though I'd love to overlook it, he just doesn't cut it for me (at first glance at his stats). And I think that Garvey is a lesser candidate than Raines. BTW, I will love to see Rickey Henderson in the HOF. He's my favourite player of all those listed in my previous post.
posted by grum@work at 04:47 PM on January 10, 2006
Someone compared the stats of Al Oliver with that of the great Roberto Clemente. To make that comparison takes...er.....stirkes. Oliver was with my Giants for one season (1984), and stunk up the joint. We knew he was a primarily a singles hitter, but didn't expect to get so little production out of him. He hit .298 in 91 games, but drove in only 34 runs, made 11 errors at first, and hit his uniform number in homers - 0. He did lead the team in two categories...double plays, and bad attitude.
posted by L.N. Smithee at 05:56 PM on January 10, 2006
Re: Class of 2006: Baines? No way. Gwynn? Obviously. Ripken? Of course. McGwire? Well, since the Hall of Fame is about the past, and remembering how McGwire doesn't want to live in the past...
posted by L.N. Smithee at 06:02 PM on January 10, 2006
All the steroid thing did was prevent McGwire from being a cinch first-ballot inductee. The numbers and historical impact (not all of which is negative) are still there, and he'll still make it. Now it'll just take him a couple of years.
posted by chicobangs at 01:54 PM on January 11, 2006
I can guarantee that he won't be in the Hall of Fame at this time tomorrow. Inductions aren't held until August, so even if it's announced tomorrow that he got enough votes to join the Hall, he'll have more than half a year to enter. Sutter is the player with the best shot of getting elected, but if I had to guess I still think the odds are slightly against him. Gossage is the only other player with any kind of shot at getting in.