04/23/24
November 15, 2005
It's only a small fraction of a season, but the trend so far is encouraging: "Through 264 NHL games this year, the league says there have been 227 major penalties. In 2003-04, there had been 393."
Don Cherry weighs in, predictably: "Everyone knows everybody loves fights. They better start listening to the people who are at the game and pay the money than the twits upstairs who get in for free."
(Hey, Don -- do you pay to get in, or are you a twit?)
I side with Don a bit on this one.... I like the idea of unwritten rules, and a code of ethics... even though it may be enforced by violence. When I see cheap shots of guys getting repeatedly smacked in the face with sticks it infuriates me! the refs can't catch all of this, and I think the players, if allowed to fight would be able to police themselves, and we wouldn't need so many penalties. I know it sounds funny, but I think that with fighting comes better sportsmanship. It also offers a relief valve against pent up frustration which will always be part of the game.
posted by RadioZombie at 12:42 PM on November 15, 2005
(Hey, Don -- do you pay to get in, or are you a twit?) funny! I know it sounds funny, but I think that with fighting comes better sportsmanship. It also offers a relief valve against pent up frustration which will always be part of the game. that doesn't sound funny, zombie...it sounds stupid. A clean hit (ala Scott Stevens...oh how i wish he was still around) will relieve more pressure than two unskilled goons beating each other. I love hockey and will admit to cheering on the fights. But I think that, in the case of fighting, less is more. When you expect them the whole thing is cheapened. If there is going to be a fight...let it be a spontaneous event that is truly exciting. Not a the typical goon on goon slugfest that they usually are.
posted by stofer71 at 12:49 PM on November 15, 2005
Yeah, two enforcers going off the faceoff is boring. Now, Iginla and Lecavalier in the Stanley Cup finals? That was awesome.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 01:06 PM on November 15, 2005
It's not only a reliefe valve but can also help shift momentum. Your designated fighter (or goon) goes out, kicks some ass and gets his guys pumped. Fighting is far from my favorite part of the game but it certainly is entertaining. As radio zombie says it can make a player responsible for his cheap shots that aren't getting called. I think the dirty hits are much much more of an issue than regular old fighting.
posted by HATER 187 at 01:25 PM on November 15, 2005
I agree...fighting keeps the guys honest, so to speak. If you lay a nasty cheap shot on someone, lookout. If the ref misses it (which he probably will), you have to think in the back of your mind eventually someone is gonna get you. The enforcers are just that, they are enforcing the fact that if you hit dirty, you're gonna get hit back.
posted by willthrill72 at 01:32 PM on November 15, 2005
BTW...who doesn't expect to see a fight at a hockey game? It's like the old joke. If you don't see a fight, it's a little surprising. I certainly don't think it cheapens it any.
posted by willthrill72 at 01:35 PM on November 15, 2005
Believe me, I know that hockey is frustrating, and I've done my share of stupid things on the ice. But goon-on-goon fighting doesn't have anything to do with frustration, and it doesn't arise naturally from the game of hockey. I also don't see how it enforces any code of ethics: "Hey, that was a cheap shot! Send out your goon so my goon can beat him up!" How does that change anything? I'm not one of those who thinks that fighting should be banned or even more severely punished. But if one of the side effects of the "more skilled" NHL is fewer goon-on-goon gladiator battles, I'll be happy.
posted by Amateur at 02:25 PM on November 15, 2005
the refs can't catch all of this, and I think the players, if allowed to fight would be able to police themselves, and we wouldn't need so many penalties. I'll hold my hands up and say my experience of hockey is limited to seeing the Belfast Giants once and playing a whole lot of Sega, but that thinking strikes me as being a tad black and white. However... Just because you can't control something completely doesn't mean you should just let it all go. The same logic applied to another situation would have the police forces of the world disbanded because they can't catch every single criminal, or the drug laws of every country relaxed completely because sometimes people produce, sell or take drugs and don't get caught. It's a bit like the argument that suggests catching athletes using steroids is difficult, so the only way to ensure parity is to just let everyone take whatever they like. It's a lazy argument, and about as likely to stand up to rigorous examination as a blamange in a high wind. If seeing people fight is entertaining for you, go and see a boxing match. Or, if you must have the frozen element, invent ice boxing. Tonya Harding for world champ!
posted by JJ at 03:02 PM on November 15, 2005
Yeah - the goon days are gone. I love fighting in hockey and can easily see why it's always been in such a tough, fast, emotional and violent game. The players will determine how much of it stays or goes, provided the league doesn't get too uppity about it.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:03 PM on November 15, 2005
The same logic applied to another situation would have the police forces of the world disbanded because they can't catch every single criminal I'd say it's a little different in hockey. It's more like if we had government invading our privacy because they felt we couldn't take care of our own moral behavior. /looks around /moves
posted by yerfatma at 04:54 PM on November 15, 2005
There are two things in hockey fans will stand up for which to get a better view: a penalty shot (or breakaway), and a fight. Do I like fighting in the NHL? Not particularly. I don't turn on a hockey game hoping to catch a good fight. However, I'd be lying if I said that good tussle between some quality players didn't get the blood pumping a bit faster. Goon vs goon at centre ice right after the puck is dropped? Not entertaining. Power forward vs stay-at-home defenceman after a rough-and-tumble play in the corner or in front of the net? Entertaining.
posted by grum@work at 04:57 PM on November 15, 2005
Goon vs goon at centre ice right after the puck is dropped? Not entertaining. Power forward vs stay-at-home defenceman after a rough-and-tumble play in the corner or in front of the net? Entertaining. Agreed.
posted by stofer71 at 05:59 PM on November 15, 2005
Goon vs goon at centre ice right after the puck is dropped? Not entertaining. Power forward vs stay-at-home defenceman after a rough-and-tumble play in the corner or in front of the net? Entertaining. I'm with grum. When people say "fighting is part of the game," that's what they should be talking about.
posted by Amateur at 08:11 PM on November 15, 2005
Yeah, some fights are better than others. I remember a Detroit/Colorado game that was dubbed the "screw Lemieux night" Claude Lemieux... Darren McCarty... It really cemented that playoff series in my mind. I remember certain goals quite well too. every fight isn't great. that is true. niether is every goal. But I believe that there is a place for fighting in Hockey. It adds to the intensity. there is no other team sport (that I know of) that allows fighting like Hockey does. It adds to the mistique of the greatest game on Earth! I don't demand a fight from every game. I don't care. But if it is going to happen, it should happen. so should big checks, incredible saves, short handed goals, hat tricks, deeks, one timers, slap shots from the blue line, all that! I love hockey.
posted by RadioZombie at 11:08 AM on November 17, 2005
Here!Here!
posted by willthrill72 at 11:16 AM on November 17, 2005
I'd have to side with DJE and suggest that Iginla and Lecavalier going toe to toe in the last Finals was pretty awesome. That was all about intensity and less about hurting someone (given that Iginla has broken his hand in a fight before and was by far the most valuable skater on the Flames team). So, along the lines of grum, the goon on goon stuff is bleh, the stuff borne of intensity and competition is something I'd be sorry to see go, and I certainly don't watch hockey to see the fights.
posted by gspm at 12:23 PM on November 17, 2005
I'd have to side with DJE and suggest that Iginla and Lecavalier going toe to toe in the last Finals was pretty awesome. The way that Crosby and Ovechkin are playing right now, the only thing that could surprise me more would be if they faced each other in a game and decided to drop the gloves. They don't have to actually punch each other out, but a good 30-60 seconds of wrestling/shoving/half-hearted-swings would be pretty f*cking amazing. That would take their popularity (which should be pretty damn high as it is) to a whole new level.
posted by grum@work at 04:02 PM on November 17, 2005
i like fighting in the nhl, but thats not the only reaason i watch hockey. i wish the nhl got rid of most of the guys who all they do is fight like jody shelley. but they should keep guys capable of scoring like chris simon and darren maccarty. but nothin beats a goalie fight, those are always exciting
posted by MVgiants17 at 12:33 PM on November 19, 2005
Cherry was talking about Bettman, who was not a hockey fan before he took over the league.