September 14, 2005

I'll admit I'm the very last to give Roger any credit. Which is why I saw this and thought, "Let me get this straight. He's going to honor his dead mother by going out and padding his stats? His mom wants him to chase Warren Spahn's wins mark? Alright, then." He won't be 100%, and the Astros are a game and a half out. Switch off with Pettite, and make some funeral arrangements. Be a man, fergodsake. Give little Kody, Karlo, Krusty and Kracky a good example of how to be there for your family. He's going to give 800 interviews tonight, and I'll give the over-under on the number of times he uses the words "we" or "team" at, oh, zero.

posted by chicobangs at 06:02 PM on September 14, 2005

Give little Kody, Karlo, Krusty and Kracky a good example of how to be there for your family. Christ, chico. It's his mom. He can grieve her however he damn well wants. And yes, I know (in advance), that it's "all about what Roger wants". Is this about padding his stats? Or is it a way to take his mind off his grief? Everybody copes their own way, though it's got to be easy to judge him sitting before your keyboard, using the content of his interviews for evidence.

posted by rocketman at 06:42 PM on September 14, 2005

If roger says it's about his mom, I believe him. The man simply does not lie.

posted by justgary at 07:17 PM on September 14, 2005

The point is, even though mothers are great- love us and support us everyday, we have to go on. Through all the grief, and agony, eventually we have to live our lifes. Of course he isnt doing this in a negative way- if he felt this was disrespectful- im sure he would have the sense not to do it. Besides, you can use Mrs. Clemens death as an inspiration. I wouldnt be suprised to see Roger pitch well, and help get the Astros into the playoffs tonight.

posted by redsoxrgay at 07:55 PM on September 14, 2005

Like I said, I'm the last to give that selfish personal-stat-obsessed little manchild credit. But. That said, my sincere condolences go out to the entire Clemens family. Even Roger.

posted by chicobangs at 08:13 PM on September 14, 2005

I'm surprised at some of the responses here. Like Rocketman said, He can grieve her however he damn well wants. Show some class by saving your snide comments for another day. For some reason, I was not able to italicize the above response fro dusted. Just wanted to point out that dusted got in his snide comment, lol.

posted by panteeze at 09:32 PM on September 14, 2005

6.1IP 5H 1R 4K and his team finally gave him some run support tonight. when roger was trying for his 300th win his mom followed him around the country, with her oxygen tank in tow, so she could be there to see it. unfortunately she was too sick to make it to the stadium when he did finally get it. i know it's rather cliché to say that his mom would have wanted him to pitch tonight but, i think she probably would have.

posted by goddam at 10:07 PM on September 14, 2005

On a less emotional note, Roger has no reason to retire now- his whole reason the first time was that he wanted his mom alive to see his actual HoF induction (obviously it was a foregone conclusion he would make it). Now? Well jeez, he's second on the K list to only Nolan Ryan, and has an outside but hardly unimaginable chance to reach 400 wins and 5,000 strikeouts. He's 43 years old, but you could never tell that by watching him- his 1.77 ERA is insanely low for this era, and with more run support he'd be cruising to his eighth Cy Young right now. I wouldn't be surprised if he can still put it up when he's 47; I'm sure he's thinking, "I can pitch until I'm Nolan's age...", and why not? If nothing else, I suspect he wants to keep pitching until Randy Johnson retires or is no longer a threat to take his #2 strikeout position. Sure, a lot can change in a couple of years, but he's more like Nolan Ryan in his strength and longevity than anyone I've ever seen. I can't see any reason besides a fluke injury that he'd be unable to pitch another 3 years. We may hate the guy for a variety of reasons, and he may be dumb as a bag of rocks, but I think we can pretty much say that he is simply the greatest pitcher who ever lived. The numbers he finishes with will be staggering. I'm not even joking when I suggest they may have to rename the Cy Young award after him once he finally retires.

posted by hincandenza at 03:34 AM on September 15, 2005

but I think we can pretty much say that he is simply the greatest pitcher who ever lived. Whew, that's a tough one to support. I agree that he definitely has to be in the discussion, but I can't immediately say that he's the best of all time. A couple more seasons might make that decision easier, however. Other pitchers in the discussion: (in order of how I rank them) Walter Johnson Pedro Martinez Tom Seaver Cy Young Lefty Grove Pete Alexander Warren Spahn I'd put Clemens between Martinez and Johnson, but Martinez has the potential to catch Clemens after he's passed Johnson. And before anyone says "You forgot [pitcher X]!", I'll just say that I didn't forget Nolan Ryan, Sandy Koufax or Greg Maddux. Ryan - yes, he had a lot of no-hitters, but he also had a lot of walks and his ERA wasn't that great. Koufax - too short of a career to seriously consider as the greatest of all time. Martinez has pitched two more seasons than him and is still going. Maddux - I don't think he's better than Clemens, and they are direct contemporaries. The other ones on the list above (except for Martinez) are from different eras.

posted by grum@work at 09:29 AM on September 15, 2005

I think Pedro's an upper echelon Hall of Famer - but how can you on one hand dismiss Koufax and take Martinez with the other - I find their careers remarkably similar. Really from 1998 - 2002 Martinez was untouchable - rest of the time, better than average. Like Koufax. Pedro has the better individual years - but his career can't really be compared to Clemens. Clemens right now slots in with the others you mentioned for sure, though. I can only think of two other pitchers that I'd put ahead of him right now - Johnson and Young. Maddux is not as good - but still a top ten.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:35 AM on September 15, 2005

I think Pedro's an upper echelon Hall of Famer - but how can you on one hand dismiss Koufax and take Martinez with the other - I find their careers remarkably similar. Really from 1998 - 2002 Martinez was untouchable - rest of the time, better than average. Like Koufax. If you look on the baseball-reference website, they have a stat called "ERA+". This is a measurement of how good the pitcher's ERA was (adjusted for ballpark) compared to the rest of the league. Pedro has 4 seasons over 200 (where 100 is league average). Koufax has 0 seasons. Pedro's career ERA+ (as of 2004) is 167. Koufax's career ERA+ was 131. Pedro also has a better K/9, K/BB and HR/9IP (which is astounding since Koufax pitched all his career on a higher mound AND in one of the most pitcher-friendly parks at that time). Finally, Pedro will end up with a longer career than Koufax, which should definitely be taken into consideration. Don't get me wrong, Koufax is a top 20 pitcher in my mind. But Pedro is, well, just better. He might even be the best someday.

posted by grum@work at 01:02 PM on September 15, 2005

Yeah - read the adjusted ERA stuff after I posted - you're right, Pedro's best years are actually statistically better than Koufax's - but damn those strikeout totals are sexy.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:38 PM on September 15, 2005

He's no punk!. I hate baseball but I will be pulling for the man as he represents Houston, which is my stomping ground. South/West .God bless him! .I can't wait for dem ROCKETS To go to war ! T-mac and dem boys are for real!

posted by DemFiyah281 at 07:40 PM on September 15, 2005

posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:50 PM on September 16, 2005