August 17, 2005

Hernandez Balks at Fan's Asking Price for Glove: A brief little reminder that greed extends beyond athletes. Enjoy your glove, moron!

posted by dyams to baseball at 07:46 AM - 37 comments

What an idiot . Not exactly the same value as a McGwire or Bonds record breaking homerun ball is it ? Maybe you can get 50 bucks for it on ebay . Enjoy !!!

posted by evil empire at 08:10 AM on August 17, 2005

I wouldnt give em a dime over $16,500 for the glove. Some people, whoa!

posted by Sasquatch12154 at 08:11 AM on August 17, 2005

I particularly enjoyed the fact that this fan also demanded playoff tickets for this season. Uh, dude, the Nats ain't going anywhere except home in October.

posted by NoMich at 08:23 AM on August 17, 2005

Former WorldCom executives show up in the darndest places.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:35 AM on August 17, 2005

That part was funny NoMich ....Maybe he should of demanded they make the playoffs . They changed the name but the Nationals are still the Expos , both start strong and faded after the all star break .

posted by evil empire at 08:47 AM on August 17, 2005

Actually, EE, the lucky fan who benefitted from Hernandez's meltdown will most likely receive around $500 for the glove, possibly more given the publicity surrounding it. Game-used major league mitts are very difficult to acquire and are highly collectible. The asking price of $18K is pretty ridiculous, but why not? Hernandez was stupid enough to throw it into the crowd. Why would he expect to get it back, especially for an autographed jersey and mitt, both presumably unused? If it had been me, I would have asked for a catcher's mitt, a game-used jersey and a couple of bats and negotiated from there.

posted by wfrazerjr at 08:55 AM on August 17, 2005

Asking for that much is a bit ridiculous, but I don't have a problem with asking a millionaire to pay for the glove he childishly threw into the stands. If I was that fan, I'd ask for something of value also. The whole "give it back to the athlete for free" thing, which came up a lot with Mark McGwire's home runs, seems like a sucker's game. Why should fans be the only ones who don't get to cash in on the ridiculous amount of money floating around pro sports?

posted by rcade at 08:55 AM on August 17, 2005

Why do we deserve to cash in? Do we not get what we want when we pay for a ticket?

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:23 AM on August 17, 2005

Did Livan Hernandez ask himself that question for being born with an arm that has earned $22.2 million in his career? There ain't nothing wrong with turning good luck into money.

posted by rcade at 09:52 AM on August 17, 2005

I'd say the offer of a jersey and maybe another piece of merchandise would be more than satisfactory for a player's glove. It wasn't a historical piece of memorabilia or anything, and the player involved wasn't even that great (not like it was Roger Clemens). Fans pay a price to see a game, not to loot the stadium of anything that may come into their hands. Hernandez was frustrated, which is part of sports. It doesn't give a guy the right to hold his property for ransom. Some sort of reward for it's return would be nice, but this guy went way, way overboard. I could sit here and say I'd want this and that if I was in the fan's situation and had the glove land on my lap, but honestly, if it happened to me, having played baseball and knowing how much a glove means to a player, I doubt I'd be able to hold out for much. Hernandez shouldn't have thrown it, but it's an emotional game.

posted by dyams at 09:59 AM on August 17, 2005

dyams, I disagree. Any object that goes into the stands whether it's a ball, bat or glove, becomes public property and if a fan is lucky enough to snair it, the object is lawfully his (hers). So if a player is dumb enough to throw a glove into the stands, he should expect to negotiate in order to secure its return.

posted by tommysands at 10:03 AM on August 17, 2005

This thread would not even exist if the moron did not have a temper tantrum and throw crap in the stands. He is lucky he did not hurt anyone.

posted by panteeze at 10:05 AM on August 17, 2005

I'd just ask for some autographed schwag and a couple of tickets. Oh, and a pimped out Hummer.

posted by mbd1 at 10:05 AM on August 17, 2005

Sure, swap the glove for some schwag. But his list? A little over the top. Like dyams said, it wasn't particularly historic so I can't imagine it would be worth much to anyone but Hernandez. Maybe he Hernandez should have just not responded at all to the asking price. Just rolled his eyes or something. Keep the glove, there's your gift.

posted by gspm at 10:20 AM on August 17, 2005

Tommysands, I understand the legal ramifications of a player throwing an object into the stands and how possession lawfully may change hands at that point. I guess I just (stupidly) wished a human being (spectator at a game, in this case) at some point may act above the "legal" definition, get their lawyer off their speed dial, and act in an understanding manner. Unfortunately, if this guy would have just given the glove back, the story would not have even warranted a story. Also, many people, sadly, would have considered him a "chump."

posted by dyams at 10:23 AM on August 17, 2005

Let's not forget why those players make the millions that they do! Without the fans, do you think that they would be making anything close to that? The fans do deserve things in return sometimes! A baseball clubhouse is like Vegas... what happens there stays there. Consider the stands a clubhouse for the fans... what gets thrown there stays there! McGwire didn't deserve his balls back, baseballs that is, and Hernandez doesn't deserve his glove back. Without the fans they would be nobodies!

posted by nymutt at 10:28 AM on August 17, 2005

It used to be that the saying was "A Fool and his money are soon parted", but in this case I feel that the fan misunderstood and decided it was "A fool and his money are some party". Enjoy the glove, have a chuckle or two, and when you wonder why the ticket prices keep spiraling upwards, maybe that glove will be an added bonus to one of the few trips to the ballpark that you can afford.

posted by Okie_ranger at 10:35 AM on August 17, 2005

dyams, I hear your cry, feel your pain and see your point. BTW, I'm having a hard time figuring out an abridgement for your nick, but I'll keep trying.

posted by tommysands at 10:42 AM on August 17, 2005

nymutt, "Without the fans, do you think that they would be making anything close to that? The fans do deserve things in return sometimes!...Without the fans they would be nobodies!"; Without the players doing what they do there would be no fans. Having such talent, work ethic, and pride allow these guys to do the amazing things they do every game. They deserve any ball, blove, hat, etc. they want that has whatever emotional attachment to it. I'm glad I have my first homerun ball I ever hit and the ball I threw my last pitch with. Dyams, i agree strongly. good words.

posted by dejoy09 at 11:11 AM on August 17, 2005

I was all sleuthing... dejoy09... has hit a home run... has thrown a pitch... go to baseball reference... Dick (Richard Edward) Joyce... pitched in 5 games for the KC Royals in September 1965... no home runs though...

posted by gspm at 11:19 AM on August 17, 2005

Lucky Glove? It's not like the HOF will be calling on him five years after retirement. He is an above average pitcher. Above average doesn't get you the call. When a ball goes into the crowd, I don't see anyone asking for them back. The truth is, like many others Hernandez has a temper. If his temper makes him do something so moronic as throw his things into the crowd, then he doesn't deserve to get them back. As far as the fan, he's got quite a lot to learn about looking a gift horse in the mouth. He should have learned the credo of the 80's and just said no and walked away.

posted by melcarek69 at 11:25 AM on August 17, 2005

"A fool and his money are some party" I would say this is a stronger truism than the original. Better copyright that so you can sue.

posted by yerfatma at 12:00 PM on August 17, 2005

Well if he really cared about the glove, he wouldn't have thrown it into the crowd when he had his hissy fit. If I was the fan I would just keep it or sell it on ebay. Screw Livan, it's his fault, he should deal with his temper instead of worrying about getting his glove back.

posted by tina at 12:02 PM on August 17, 2005

dyams, I'm having a hard time figuring out an abridgement for your nick, but I'll keep trying. mysa, how could you possibly pass up "yams?"

posted by The_Black_Hand at 01:03 PM on August 17, 2005

And it so easily slides into the sub-nicks: Yammers, Yammikins, el Yammerino - if your not into the whole brevity thing.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:09 PM on August 17, 2005

Ownership rights were given up when this guy willfully threw his mitt into the stands A disclaimer on the back of every sporting ticket- they the team & or players are not responsible if you get injured by anything game related going into the stands-bat, ball glove, puck stick ect. (Of coarse the team usually tries to offer something to an injured fan) but with such a disclaimer in place I don't feel the fan has any obligation to give it back for any price if he chooses not too. That having been said my demands would have to be something realistic he may have well asked for Redskin playoff tickets too! (We can still use Redskin right?) You can't stop someone from picking your garbage either, as the law is clear, once it is at the curb it is fair game!

posted by directpressure at 01:16 PM on August 17, 2005

Actually Black Hand and Weedy, my nickname actually IS Yams (short for Williams (the end of the name, kind of like "yams")(What can I say, I have stupid friends)) and a few call me Yammer. I'm like that you picked up on them. Most sites that call for user names, etc. say you have to have at least 5 letters, thus "dyams." Talk about a lot of useless information you never wanted to know!

posted by dyams at 02:35 PM on August 17, 2005

I don't think the law is really on the side of the fan here. The law for baseball is, of course, that fans may get balls that are hit into the stand. The baseballs are owned by MLB and that is the rule according to MLB. However, bats that land in the stands belong to the player and are retrieved. And the glove was owned by Livan. I don't really see the relevance of whether the glove intentionally or unintentionally landed in the stand for legal purposes. So, the glove belongs to Livan and the fan stole it.

posted by bperk at 03:06 PM on August 17, 2005

Hernandez appeared to be giving his equipment to the fans by intentionally throwing it into the stands. That's different than something going into the stands by accident, such as a bat. Wouldn't this be a civil disagreement over an implied contract rather than a criminal case of theft? (Coincidentally, here's a relevant discussion that includes a great tidbit: One of the people fighting in court over a Bonds home run ball ended up losing money -- his share of the ball's proceeds was less than his attorney fees.)

posted by rcade at 03:21 PM on August 17, 2005

Livan's intentions are what is important. To abandon property, the owner has to relinquish with the intent to abandon or terminate ownership. However, if Livan sent staff to get the glove, then did he intend to terminate his ownership of the glove? As the value of sports memorabilia increases, baseball is going to have to change its policy lest someone get seriously injured trying to get a ball.

posted by bperk at 03:45 PM on August 17, 2005

If the glove was so near and dear to his heart he never would have thrown it. He knew as soon as the glove left his hand he'd have a hard time getting it back..... He's not a child who cant comprehend this kind of stuff. It's his fault, so anyone who feels bad for him is about as stupid as he was for throwing it in the first place.

posted by gregy606 at 04:01 PM on August 17, 2005

To me, when this goes to the Supreme Court, I expect the important question to be this: What was Livan's intent at the time he threw his equipment to strangers? If I give you something and you consider it a gift, and I come back later and ask for it back, by any possible interpretation did you commit theft?

posted by rcade at 04:20 PM on August 17, 2005

Livan's argument: You see I was mad, so I mislaid my property in the stands where there just so happened to be a large number of fans, but I had every intent of retrieving it.

posted by bperk at 04:28 PM on August 17, 2005

Bperk, I would say Livan definitely intended to abandon ownership of his glove at the moment he fired it into the stands. If he didn't, why throw it in the first place? And the fact that you threw it into a group of baseball fans would make me think a) you didn't want it any more and b)even if you did, you damned sure ain't getting it back. Now that I think about it, when the attendants came to try and retrieve the glove, I would have asked to field some grounders at third base before a game. God, I would just freaking die.

posted by wfrazerjr at 04:32 PM on August 17, 2005

Livan's intentions are what is important. To abandon property, the owner has to relinquish with the intent to abandon or terminate ownership. However, if Livan sent staff to get the glove, then did he intend to terminate his ownership of the glove? perkie, I like your thinking but...(there's always a "but"): if, as you say, Livan's intention is what the matter will turn on, then we must look to his conduct to determine his intent. I say that Livan voluntarily threw the glove into the stands, no one forced him to do it. That he later sent staff to retrieve the glove is after the fact and does not go to his intention at the time he threw the glove into the stands. Ruling in favor of the fan. Next case...

posted by tommysands at 05:02 PM on August 17, 2005

I'm sorry if you took my post the wrong way dejoy, I realize that baseball is a continous circle of people that all support each other - from the players, to the t-shirt giys, to the hotdog companies, to the Nacho Chip guys. Do I think that the guy that has the glove deserves a riduculous amount of money for it? NO! I honestly don't understand people that want to sell any kind of baseball memoribilia. I keep everything that I get. I guess I'm just a sentimental type person. If I caught a homerun ball that meant something to someone, I would have the integrity to give it to the player. I would like to think that most fans would. Every once in a while we run into these morons that are looking to make a quick buck off of someone else. We live in a society that is spoiled rotten, and a large number of people somehow think that the world owes them something. I was recently at a Mets game when a young woman was hit in the face with a foul ball, which then bounced off her nose and into the hands of a boy that was 8 years old. As the girl was being taken to get first aid, the crowd started yelling at the boy to give her the ball. The small boy stood up, opened his tiny fingers, and handed the ball to the young woman. Integrity! That's what it's about! An 8 year-old boy also looks up to the players on the field though, and it was bad judgement to throw a glove into the stands. And what is he teaching the kids by demanding his glove back? I understand everyone's opinions on this topic, but I do think that Livan should teach children good character traits by taking responsibilty for his actions and apologizing. Integrity is infectious! BTW- That little boy at the Mets game wound up receiving an autographed ball a few days after the game thanks to an adult that was impressed with his actions!

posted by nymutt at 05:05 PM on August 17, 2005

That story's heartwarming, except when you think about a crowd of adults berating a little boy over a baseball. Please save the happy ending by telling me they were all on that plane in Greece.

posted by rcade at 09:52 PM on August 17, 2005

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