11/23/24
August 09, 2005
Kenny Rogers is free to pitch again.: An Arbitrator today ruled that Bud Selig over steped his authority. I am sure ESPN will have fun with this one!
GO KENNY.........ANYBODY KNOW WHEN PETE ROSE WILL BE INDUCTED?
posted by tuffy_earl at 04:53 PM on August 09, 2005
Now is when the prosecuters should step in. Let the arbitrator override that.
posted by scottypup at 04:56 PM on August 09, 2005
i still find it funny though that even with the arbitrator reducing his days off, his consequence is still more severe than the players caught on steroids. You could even make the case that the media made him look worse than someone on steroids. Just saying...
posted by rockin_the_suburbs at 04:59 PM on August 09, 2005
Yup Kenny is starting tomorrow night against the Red Sox!
posted by daddisamm at 05:01 PM on August 09, 2005
Bud Selig has authority? Does Donald Fehr know about this?
posted by lilnemo at 05:04 PM on August 09, 2005
Das' decision closes the case It is my understanding that this arbitration ruling can not be appealed. That’s one of the problems with arbitration clauses in collective bargaining agreements. The other is that arbitrators who are paid jointly by both parties to an agreement often have a tendency to split their case loads. Apparently, it was the players union’s turn...
posted by tommysands at 05:06 PM on August 09, 2005
You could even make the case that the media made him look worse than someone on steroids. Amen. Don't mess with the press (or TV). You don't need 'roids for rage.
posted by graymatters at 05:17 PM on August 09, 2005
It is my understanding that this arbitration ruling can not be appealed. That’s one of the problems with arbitration clauses in collective bargaining agreements. I don't get what you mean: given that both sides agreed to the terms, doesn't that make it "fair"? Someone has to represent the end of the line.
posted by yerfatma at 05:50 PM on August 09, 2005
Pathetic. What in God's name could the arbitrator be thinking? I hope every cameraman tries to get as close to Kenny as possible just to make him blow up again. They should just bother him at every opportunity. If Kenny can be an ass and get a reduced sentence, then the cameramen have the right to get close.
posted by dbt302 at 07:13 PM on August 09, 2005
I hope every cameraman tries to get as close to Kenny as possible just to make him blow up again. Why?
posted by yerfatma at 07:26 PM on August 09, 2005
You could even make the case that the media made him look worse than someone on steroids. You must be kidding, right? In ten years, no one will remember Kenny Rogers attacking a cameraman. In twenty years, the press will still be talking about "the first big star caught using steroids". (20 years being about the last time Palmeiro will be eligible for hall of fame voting, assuming he retires)
posted by grum@work at 07:28 PM on August 09, 2005
It's nice to see a grown adult do something that wrong and Immature and eventually get away with it. I think I need to try harder to become world renowed so I can do whatever I want and get away with it {Michael Jackson, O.J. Simpson, Kenny and all the others}. How did Scott Peterson end up convicted and sentenced to death? While these wrongs are far worse obviously, it was still wrong and needs to be dealt with. If any of you or I did it, We would be enjoying a nice dim lit cell right now. As far as media, I have little use for them, but their job is to cover whom and whatever is news. Only a matter of time before this happens again.
posted by melcarek69 at 07:33 PM on August 09, 2005
I don't get what you mean: given that both sides agreed to the terms, doesn't that make it "fair"? Someone has to represent the end of the line. I'm not sure what your question is "fatma". What I meant is that an arbitrator's ruling is final and binding. There usually is no apeal. Thus, both parties have to live with a dumb decision.
posted by tommysands at 07:33 PM on August 09, 2005
Lol Grum...you got that right!
posted by melcarek69 at 07:33 PM on August 09, 2005
This cameraman can still press charges, so it's not over yet. This may just push him to do just that.
posted by melcarek69 at 07:34 PM on August 09, 2005
My question (admittedly poorly indicated) was, effectively, "How can there be a problem with a clause both parties agreed too?"
posted by yerfatma at 07:56 PM on August 09, 2005
"How can there be a problem with a clause both parties agreed too?" fatma, you must know something I don't. What "clause" are you referring to?
posted by tommysands at 08:10 PM on August 09, 2005
In ten years, no one will remember Kenny Rogers attacking a cameraman. In ten years, no one will remember Kenny Rogers at all . Well maybe 15 .
posted by evil empire at 08:11 PM on August 09, 2005
tommy, you said, "It is my understanding that this arbitration ruling can not be appealed. That’s one of the problems with arbitration clauses in collective bargaining agreements." I'm asking how the arbitration process can be a problem if the process was defined by both parties who are bound by it.
posted by yerfatma at 08:18 PM on August 09, 2005
OK, fatma, now I got what you're saying. And in one way, you're right. If the parties agreed to binding arbitration, they shouldn't bitch. I was simply saying that arbitration is not always the best way to resolve disputes. A compromise settlement is, in my opinion, usually better. Also, permanent arbitrators (versus an ad hoc selection) usually split cases over time.
posted by tommysands at 09:12 PM on August 09, 2005
Either way it's still a MISDEMEANOR violation. It still amounts to two high shool QB's going after each other. AT least Mike Tyson drew blood..... What did he get??
posted by volfire at 10:03 PM on August 09, 2005
Arbitration is a system of resolution in which the parties all agree with the process; that is, they agree to go with whatever the arbitrator decides. It's not the same thing as being offered a solution and agreeing to it; in the case of arbitration, you're agreeing to a pig in a poke.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:59 AM on August 10, 2005
In ten years, no one will remember Kenny Rogers at all . Well maybe 15 . My question is, why is anyone concerned enough about Kenny Rogers NOW to even be following him with a camera in the first place? He's a 40 year old who's never won 20 games in a season, and has enjoyed a long, very average career. As for any ruling, punishment, etc., it's like everything else in the world of pro sports, unfortunately: A fantasyland normal, everyday people will never be able to deal with or understand. Their world is, and always will be, separate from that in which you and me live. Like was said several posts up, Pete Rose is looking better and better every year!
posted by dyams at 07:40 AM on August 10, 2005
Well, he is one of a small group of people who've pitched a perfect game in the majors. 20 wins is a fairly arbitrary standard, as it's very much dependent on the team you play for (see: Clemens, Roger circa 2005).
posted by yerfatma at 08:05 AM on August 10, 2005
Rogers gets media attention in Dallas because he's the ace of the Rangers staff and the only player ever to throw a perfect game for the team.
posted by rcade at 08:42 AM on August 10, 2005
Mike Witt, Len Barker and Tom Browning also threw perfect games in their careers, showing one great day definitely doesn't contstitute a great career. Being the ace of the Rangers staff isn't anything to draw attention to, also.
posted by dyams at 09:23 AM on August 10, 2005
What in God's name could the arbitrator be thinking? I think it just another example of Selig playing commissioner rather than being a commissioner. He gives light penalties for throwing chairs in the stand and fighting in the bullpen. Then wants to complain about the arbitrator overruling a penalty that was comparatively harsh. Most unions prevent management from punishing an employee in a way that is more harsh than prior penalties for similar violations. Selig should know that and he can only blame the prior slaps on the wrist that MLB hands out.
posted by bperk at 09:32 AM on August 10, 2005
We're talking about the Dallas-Fort Worth media, Dyams. The cameraman Rogers pushed around was local, as were all the other media people he's gone after.
posted by rcade at 09:38 AM on August 10, 2005
Actually, I've had it explained to me on another site (Baseball Primer, work your way through the comments until #30 and #31...although it might be further argued down the line). Bud Selig screwed up (possibly). He handed down the punishment and then acted as the "judge" in the appeal process. That's not allowed. Usually the league presidents hand down the punishment for on-field problems (basebrawls), and Selig handles the appeal process. In this case, they broke the (complicated) rules laid out in the CBA. The union realized this fact and (correctly) called in an arbitrator. Since we don't get to read the formal judgement from the aribtrator, we can only guess that he overruled it for one of two reasons: 1) It was too harsh 2) Selig didn't have the authority to lay out that punishment and handle the appeal process as well, so the whole thing is invalid.
posted by grum@work at 03:46 PM on August 10, 2005
My question is, why is anyone concerned enough about Kenny Rogers NOW to even be following him with a camera in the first place? Because the press knew they could make him blow up.
posted by graymatters at 04:47 PM on August 10, 2005
I agree with grum. In trying disciplinary cases, Arbitratiors generally use what's called the standard of just cause. The last, and arguably the most important part of which is "does the punishment fit the crime"? That's probably why MLB got an adverse decision from the arbitrator.
posted by tommysands at 05:18 PM on August 10, 2005
Thats a joke, and whats really funny is that for the first time in his life selig is actually right about something.