11/05/24
March 03, 2004
Gonchar to Bruins: TSN is reporting that Gonchar has been traded to the Bruins for "either two players and a draft pick or two draft picks and one player".
If they've given up on re-building, they might as well fold. Fans are going to be hard pressed to follow a team that just doesn't care anymore.
posted by bcb2k2 at 10:22 AM on March 03, 2004
leonsis cares tho - i said it before, i think kolzig will stay, at least for a while. unless he decides to go - who wants to be a veteran goaltender pelted with shots game after game?
posted by owl at 10:35 AM on March 03, 2004
I guess that pounding by the Leafs last night, and the probable first round match up, didn't sit too well with B's mgmt. Now I really hope Ferguson lands Leetch. But if Sather has any clue left in his bald dome, he'll keep Mr.end-to-end around to retire a Ranger. And to ask a question raised in the game recap by the 4-way tie at 84 points, can anyone remember a tighter race at the top in the East?
posted by garfield at 10:39 AM on March 03, 2004
I don't think the leafs pounded the B's last night, but they certainly showed they are the better team. So just how many draft picks is Washington going to have in the up coming draft? Speaking of the 4 way tie what are the tie-breakers for the standings. I know # of wins is the first one, but after that I can't remember. Is it 'Goals For' or is it the season series between the 2 teams? While I find the race at the top of entertaining, there isn't much on the line. Everyone will make the playoffs. The race at the bottom of the west is going to come down to the wire and it will have some big consequences. The fact that my team (the hapless Flames) are actually in the west playoff race for the first time in 7 years makes it all that much better. ;-)
posted by camcanuck at 11:08 AM on March 03, 2004
This is just dumping salary, though, since his contract expires after the season. The Caps are done, might as well get some value before Gonchar skates away for nothing.
posted by billsaysthis at 11:11 AM on March 03, 2004
Sorry, not just dumping salary.
posted by billsaysthis at 11:11 AM on March 03, 2004
I dunno, I never was a fan of Leetch and I think he's over-rated. I used to think I was the only one, but Hrudey mentioned the same on HNIC a while ago -- so I'm definitely not the only one. Seems as though the Bruins got a deal... some picks and Shaone Morrisonn. What's the word on that kid? Never heard of him before. So it seems like a far better bargain than the rumoured Toronto deals (Stajan? Collaiacovo? No thanks, not worth trading them). And the race for first is an exciting one, likely to go down to the last game. It's a shame that there isn't much of a playoff race in the East, as I doubt anyone will catch the Islanders.
posted by mkn at 11:12 AM on March 03, 2004
According th ESPN, the tiebreakers are: 1. Wins 2. Points obtained in games against tied teams 3. Goal differential
posted by MeatSaber at 11:16 AM on March 03, 2004
mkn - I still hold out hope on my Panthers to catch the Islanders. Not looking great, for sure, but still possible, and that's all I need!
posted by bcb2k2 at 11:38 AM on March 03, 2004
nice work saber...I wasn't sure either. mkn, I said the same thing until I moved back to the tri-state area. I used to think he was weak defensively, over-rated offensively, and generally wasn't as good as my NYR fan friends would tell me. Now, he isn't gonna rattle any bones, but he is a smart defender. And if you've seen the Rangers' games against the Isle this year, and last year for that matter, you know what he brings to the table in big-time situations.
posted by garfield at 11:46 AM on March 03, 2004
I suspect they'll keep Kolzig unless they get a sweet deal involving a decent goalie. Who are they gonna build around, Sebastian Charpantier? I suspect Witt will be traded too. A lot of teams would want a player like him. And Leetch is overrated, but still reliable. I'm inclined to say "misrated" rather than "overrated". As garfield said, he's a smart defender and a veteran presence. I liken him to an Eric Weinrich or even a present-day Chelios minus the mouth. Those guys are worth having. I expect the Leafs to get Leetch, because I can't see him going anywhere else. How about them Habs? Kovalev will help them for sure, but I still don't like their chances. They will likely play one of: Ottawa, Tampa, Philly, Toronto in the first round, and Kovalev is a pure rental -- no way they're picking up his option unless he puts forth Forsberg-like numbers. It gives the fans hope, I guess. This year's playoffs are gonna rock. Hockey will go out with a bang in 2004.
posted by Succa at 12:38 PM on March 03, 2004
Shit, didn't realize there was a Kovalev thread already...
posted by Succa at 12:45 PM on March 03, 2004
If your Montreal I think you desperatly want to play Tampa in the first round. I think that Tampa's points are skewed a bit high because they are in SouthEast Division. They get to play all of those low end teams more often than other Eastern teams do. Getting Leetch for the playoffs would be a smart play by the Leafs. Even if they just rent him for a while. He is well respected, is a very good leader and has boat loads of exprience. You can't have too much of that during a playoff run. The trick is to not give up too much to get him. I agree with Succa the playoffs are really looking good this year. It's going to be one heck of a battle just to get to the finals.
posted by camcanuck at 01:04 PM on March 03, 2004
camcancuk, the 'Ning actually have most of their points from teams outside the southleast. check it out, they are for real.
posted by garfield at 01:25 PM on March 03, 2004
> And if you've seen the Rangers' games against the Isle this year, and last year for that matter, you know what he brings to the table in big-time situations. Perhaps, but my opinion of a player isn't going to change based on how he plays against one rival compared to how he plays for the entire season. If I thought like that, then after seeing this year's Carolina/Leafs games I'd be willing to give Weekes the Vezina. However, I'll concede that he is the best thing openly available... and Leech would be an improvement over Berehowsky or Berg, so I won't complain if the Leafs do get him (just as long as they don't give anything away). Here's hoping he won't be another Housley [and I really wouldn't mind renting out Wesley again].
posted by mkn at 01:49 PM on March 03, 2004
fair nuf. I think I should've elaborated on that point a bit further. I've seen Leetch single-handedly take over a game, rush the puck repeatedly up the ice, deke everyone and their mothers, and score. He doesn't do it every game, and for that I blame age, but when he does turn on the afterburners, he is virtually unstoppable. Speaking of the 'Canes, the Leafs should be going after Hill. He's a functioning Scott Stevens and is exactly what the Leafs' D corps lacks. But don't fret. Leetch wouldn't be a Housley. Leetch is an altogether higher calibre player.
posted by garfield at 02:15 PM on March 03, 2004
Oh yeah, Martin St.Louis also just did something only One other player has been able to accomplish : back to back NHL player of the month awards.
posted by garfield at 02:39 PM on March 03, 2004
Well I stand corrected. TB owns the Altlantic division. Maybe they are for real this year. The playoffs are a different beast and I'm not sold on TB going far. However as recent history has shown us if your goaltender gets hot there is no telling how far you could go (see the ducks last year). Maybe the 'Berlin Wall' will have everyone shaking their heads in disbelief.
posted by camcanuck at 03:13 PM on March 03, 2004
TSN saying just now: Leech to Toronto for Kondratiev (prospect), some other prospect, and possibly some picks.
posted by mkn at 06:55 PM on March 03, 2004
Ack.
posted by Succa at 07:07 PM on March 03, 2004
Did trade deadline day secretly get moved to today or something? That's four already (Gonchar, Nedved, Leetch, Marshall).
posted by Succa at 07:12 PM on March 03, 2004
Here's the story: http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=74803 The Toronto Maple Leafs announced Wednesday evening that the hockey club has acquired defenceman Brian Leetch and a conditional draft choice from the New York Rangers in exchange for defenceman Max Kondratiev, forward Jarkko Immonen, Toronto's first-round pick in the 2004 Entry Draft and the team's second-round pick in 2005. Seems like a lot of prospects and picks... and Kondratiev definitely has promise. Hmmm. Also, the Oilers got Nedved. ?? This one I can't figure out.
posted by mkn at 07:15 PM on March 03, 2004
Succa, who's Marshall?
posted by garfield at 07:46 PM on March 03, 2004
Garfield: Minnesota call-up player, no biggie. Dealt to Sharks. Leafs are pretty solid with Leetch, to be sure. Probably a perfect fit. Jesus god. The Nedved deal was purely Kevin Lowe taking a run at a playoff spot. No way they'll pick up his $5M option next year.
posted by Succa at 07:58 PM on March 03, 2004
Well all be… I honestly don’t know what to say. I saw the Nedved thing and thought, ‘Wonderful. It’s on. They’re rebuilding!’ And then I saw the Leetch thing. I think I groaned. I’ve been watching Brian Leetch as long as I’ve been watching hockey. I learned the game during the 1988 Olympics and there were two guys on the team made me a Rangers fan from the get go --- Mike Richter and Brian Leetch. I grew up with the idea of Leetch as a Ranger and never thought of anything different. This afternoon I almost called you folks lunatics for all the rumors you were posting about him being trade. That wouldn't happen. That couldn't happen. He's been my favorite player since grade school. And now he’s on another team. So, damn you rebuilding! Damn you, you wonderful beast! You Leafs fans treat our Leetch well. You’re getting a top pair defensemen who despite his faults is not the defensive liability that some think him to be. He's a slick skating mover and a high-minute player. If I had to guess, you'll love having him on the club. Oh, and for the love of Wade Belak and all things holy, give him the 2.
posted by 86 at 08:19 PM on March 03, 2004
thats a lot of picks for 'stand pat' quinn to give up - he must be under some pressure.
posted by owl at 09:23 PM on March 03, 2004
It isn't Pat Quinn making those decisions (alone) anymore. He gave up the GM spot to focus on coaching. Ferguson is the new GM, and I've gotta say that getting Leetch without giving up Coliac...Coaliaco...that young defenceman, Stajan or Antropov is a pretty good deal.
posted by grum@work at 11:47 PM on March 03, 2004
Well, fuck me. You go abroad for a few months and hockey gets fun again. Should be interesting to see if the B's (+Gonchar) can compete with the Leafs (+ Leetch) and the Sens. I'll be back to the states in a few days, and I'm looking forward to watching the playoffs. For the record, Morrisson is going to be decent. Not amazing, but definitely steady. He was a dark horse pick for the B's a few years ago and was not necessarily immediately welcomed by Boston fans, but he's developed well and is a good team guy. Very solid fundamentals, and is working on becoming a power-play quarterback. Go B's. (Succa - I took a few pictures for you, and payed off the bet as best I could. More to come.)
posted by Samsonov14 at 10:41 AM on March 04, 2004
Should be interesting to see if the B's (+Gonchar) can compete with the Leafs (+ Leetch) and the Sens Don't forget the Devils. They may not be at the top of the standings, but we all know that means nothing once the real season starts...
posted by MeatSaber at 12:03 PM on March 04, 2004
Yeah! Good to hear from ya Samsy. How's the other side of the globe treatin' ya? The B's could be a contender this year, depending on the first-round matchups. It's scary to think that two of: Ottawa, Philly, Toronto, NJ, Boston, and Tampa will be eliminated in the first round (I vote for Toronto and NJ!). Raycroft is obviously the lynchpin of the B's postseason chances, but at least they'll have Potvin if he falters. There's really a lot at stake for winning the divisions this year. Win the Northeast and play Montreal or the Isles, come second and play the Devils, Leafs, Flyers, Sens, or B's. Ouch. I'm a little pissed that the trades are happening now instead of on deadline day. What am I supposed to look forward to now? Hopefully the GMs have one more shocker for us. Looking forward to the pics...
posted by Succa at 01:03 PM on March 04, 2004
Flames put Turek on waivers...bahhahahaha. If any team picks him up, I will laugh myself silly.
posted by Succa at 03:20 PM on March 04, 2004
Man, the East is where all the action is this year. Four of the top five teams have made significant acquisitions recently. (All five if you count Sydor as significant). Philly got Zhamnov; Ottawa got Bondra; Toronto got Leech; Boston got Gonchar (and Nylander). Hell, even Montreal got Kovalev. Man, if this keeps up, maybe we should switch to a relegation style system cause the talent gap is going to be massive. One thing though, you know the CBA is part of the reason for all these signings. If a collective agreement DOES get signed, then it's going to be one hell of a free-market/deal-laden off-season!
posted by mkn at 03:58 PM on March 04, 2004
Yeah, I wouldn't worry about haves and have-nots much past the end of the playoffs. If a CBA gets signed, you'll see plenty of market corrections. Please, g-d, let Leetch pick up his game now, is all I'm saying.
posted by chicobangs at 04:12 PM on March 04, 2004
The Blues will apparently deal Brent Johnson to the 'Yotes for Mike Sillinger, in a swap that would have me doing backflips. I can't believe anyone would give us anything for Johnson, who has just been an utter disaster for St. Louis. Check that link for other Bluenote (and related) rumors.
posted by wfrazerjr at 04:35 PM on March 04, 2004
Leafs now have hands down best team in the East if they stay healthy. They just do. Count the gamebreakers, depth at forward, depth at defence (more points from their D than any other team even before Leetch comes), money-goalie and experienced coaching. This team has played more playoff games than anyone else over the past five years and their dressing room assholes are history. Unless Stevens comes back, adios Devils - If you can't understand how one player can change an entire team's attitude go watch the Devils play hockey right now. Ottawa - everything great, but are you trusting Lalime? He could turn it around and if he wasn't the question mark he's made himself out to be I'd be terrified of the Sens. But I'm not. Philly - Sean Burke is not, cannot be, never has been, the answer. TB - Yikes. Here's hoping they just get scared after one of their best guys gets injured. Hey, happens to everyone. Otherwise this team is wicked awesome. Sydor has to be the best trade made this year. Beantown - Good moves obviously Gonchar and Nylander help them out - but still too much of a one line team - God bless Joe Thorton though. What a playa. Montreal - Sorry, more than just a Kovalev away. Not elite. Islanders - It's an honor to be nominated? Sounds like the typical Leaf fan crap, I know - and as always there are no guarantees. But don't you think that no team wants any part of them? My meanderings.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 04:52 PM on March 04, 2004
I'm going to go out on a limb here and make some predictions: East Final: Toronto vs. TB West Final: Detroit vs. Vancouver Stanley Cup Final: Detroit vs. TB Detroit will take home Lord Stanley's mug. I must admit that an original 6 final (Detroit vs. Toronto) would rock. However after watching TB play and checking out their stats I think they will take Toronto in 6. Anyone else?
posted by camcanuck at 05:22 PM on March 04, 2004
I'll throw out a few weaknesses for the Leafs: - age - fatigue could be a major factor in the later rounds, particularly since the East is so stacked. - Defence, still. Who's after Pilar and Berg on the depth chart? Marchment is a liability. Berehowsky, meh. The team has a solid top 4, no doubt, but remember that the Leafs still aren't a particularly defensive-minded team. Much of this can be absorbed by Belfour, though. Which brings me to, - Belfour - he's had a great year, no question, but he looked relatively weak against the Flyers last year. I expect he'll be strong in net, but what if he's not? We all know...without Belfour, they're done. - The Tucker factor...will we see Darcy Tucker or Sideshow Bob this postseason? But yeah, the Leafs are looking like a juggernaut right now I don't think they can beat Colorado or Detroit in a seven-game series, but they'll make the conference finals at least. Lalime's played well since the all-star break. March is typically the Sens' best month. They haven't fully clicked since getting Bondra, but most of their problems have been in the defensive zone. If they get hot at the right time, look out. Philly's injuries are a huge problem right now. I don't see JR coming back this year. Primeau will be, as will Dejardins, but can they jump right in and lead the team? Primeau needs to be the stick-wielding gorilla he was against the Leafs last year, and he may not be up to the task, post-concussion-wise. Burke isn't necessarily the answer, yeah, but he's an upgrade from Cechmanek, so you never know. Count me among those not worried about T-Bay. Not enough depth, experience, or identity. Still a front-loaded team. St. Louis or Lecavalier goes down, and they're done. Devils, Bruins, Habs, Isles, what Weedy said. Crap, is this ever gonna be a crazy playoff.
posted by Succa at 05:23 PM on March 04, 2004
Totally. It's great to be a East-coast hockey fan this year. And I don't consider the Leafs to have a real problem with age. Detroit's pretty damn old. Could TB take the Leafs in 6? I think they could . But the Leafs could also pound them into submission. I question their defensive depth. I think the Leafs will be much more like the Red Wings in that they'll basically play 4-5 defensemen most of the time. Leetch, McCabe, Kaberle and Klee can all capably play 20+ And I'll take Berg as my 6th d-guy anyday. He's really not bad. Right now it's 2-0 Leafs - 2 powerplay goals, 2 assists by Leetch. So far so good.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:04 PM on March 04, 2004
camcanuck, i hope you are right with your prediction about the west - but the canucks are going to have to play a _lot_ better than they did last night to survive a series. lets hope they wake up!
posted by owl at 07:57 PM on March 04, 2004
I think I speak for a lot of Rangers fan when I say, "Go Leafs Go!"
posted by 86 at 07:06 AM on March 05, 2004
"Wow" "Yeah, wow"
posted by garfield at 09:09 AM on March 05, 2004
``I agree with a lot of people here, I think Leetch was a better pickup than (Sergei) Gonchar,'' said Isles captain Michael Peca. That's the smartest thing that cheap shot diver has said in years.
posted by garfield at 09:19 AM on March 05, 2004
I think I speak for a lot of Rangers fan when I say, "Go Leafs Go!" as a rangers fan, i second that emotion.
posted by goddam at 09:32 AM on March 05, 2004
As a Senator fan, I hate all of you. ;-)
posted by Succa at 10:20 AM on March 05, 2004
Everyone knows that the Leafs aren't allowed to win the Cup. It's in the Constitution!
posted by Succa at 10:24 AM on March 05, 2004
[obligatory trash talk response] Succa, you sound nervous? Could it be that Lalime just can't do it, or that you'd prefer to have Leetch on your team? Or is the fact the Leafs man-handle the Sens every time they play? [obligatory trash talk response/]
posted by garfield at 10:37 AM on March 05, 2004
Or is the fact the Leafs man-handle the Sens every time they play? Uhhhh...okay. For all this talk about "man-handling" the Sens, I have yet to see it. So Domi beat up on Shane Hnidy a bit, big whoop. I'll take Chara or Redden over Leetch, thank you very much. I'm not worried about Lalime. It's the D... they've been remarkably careless all season long. They're not playing with the same drive they had last year. The Sens are typically a team that never blows a lead, something they've done, I dunno, 500 times this year. Injuries have been a problem (Bonk, White, Varada, Fisher, Volchenkov), but...I'm just saying. They need to improve. We'll see what happens with a healthy lineup. I fully expect a Leafs/Sens conference final this year.
posted by Succa at 11:01 AM on March 05, 2004
All your excuses, Succa, are the same excuses I've heard from Leaf fans (injuries/blown leads/careless D/no intensity)... and Sens fans always made excuses for those excuses.
posted by mkn at 11:47 AM on March 05, 2004
Huh? Who's talking about excuses? It's a fact. The Sens aren't playing well defensively. A little combatative today, mkn?
posted by Succa at 12:02 PM on March 05, 2004
Come on, you guys know in your heart of hearts that this is the year the Devils and Sharks meet in the Finals, which go to seven games before the Devils win again with a goal in the last three minutes!
posted by billsaysthis at 01:58 PM on March 05, 2004
bill, can i have some of the crack you've been smoking? it's been a long day for a Friday, and I'd like to wildly fantasize about 'things that never will be.' The crew from Hades ain't winnin' nuttin' this year. Though picking up Jan 'buy a vowel' Hrdina add another experienced and capable forward to the roster.
posted by garfield at 02:09 PM on March 05, 2004
Maybe I should have added a smiley at the end ;) My point was, the facts that you are pointing out are the same facts that I -- and many leaf fans -- have been pointing out for the last couple of years (Leafs had some really bd bouts of injuries before and during the playoffs lately -- though, strangely, they tend to play better when they have a number of injuries). And when Leafs fans point those facts out, Sens fans always deride them for making excuses -- "no, it's because they SUCK!" So it is my duty, as a Leaf fan, to do the same when positions are switched... because there's going to be a lot of crying in Ottawa come April. ;)
posted by mkn at 03:03 PM on March 05, 2004
I love hockey so much right now....its just silly.
posted by garfield at 04:12 PM on March 05, 2004
Well fans will be fans...Sens and Leafs fans both. I can appreciate a good bit of trash talk, but personally, I hate the word "excuse" as applied to sports. I find it all too often a pejorative used by those who don't have an actual argument to give. "Excuses" can be reasons. I don't think the Leafs had "excuses" for losing to Carolina two years ago. They lost because they were utterly depleted. That's a reason. I reserve the term for ridiculous admissions of inculpability, such as "Ottawa would have won the Cup if only they'd given Bondra the #12 jersey instead of #10, as it clearly affected his confidence." Anyway, just a pet peeve of mine. Some good games tonight! Gonna watch OTT-PHI but there are lots of others, including VAN-DET, TB-NJ, CGY-DAL, and COL-SJ. Fuck, what am I gonna do next year if there's a lockout? Watch goddamn basketball?
posted by Succa at 04:40 PM on March 05, 2004
Succa, you bring up a really good distinction for how we rationalize things as sports fans: If you try and find reasons, you are making up excuses. But if you make excuses, you shouldn't be making them, but rather you should've just won the game. Nice double-edged sword every losing player/fan must fall on.
posted by garfield at 05:02 PM on March 05, 2004
garfield, it's not crack, we got in a major shipment of shrooms last night. I still say Devils are the toughest out in the NHL at playoff time and until someone knocks them off they are the favorites.
posted by billsaysthis at 06:55 PM on March 05, 2004
OK...lemme say that I love Manny Legace to death...hell, I'd adopt him if I could. But two games in a row now, he's had a shutout going with 4:59 left in the 3rd, and allowed the other team to score on an otherwise routine shot. WTF???
posted by MeatSaber at 12:33 AM on March 06, 2004
(NY Times link) The fans at Madison Square Garden, who have been coming up with chants throughout the season, added another one last night in the Rangers' first home game since Brian Leetch was traded to Toronto: "Go Leafs, go!" Guess we aren't the only ones goddam.
posted by 86 at 08:45 AM on March 06, 2004
Now if the Caps trade Kolzig, does this mean they've completely given up on even rebuilding the team? I mean, who would they rebuild around? Witt? Carter? Halpern???