12/21/24
February 05, 2015
DeflateGate Accusations Mean It's Time For Coach and Owner To Be Banned From NFL: In this case, Irsay and Pagano.
That level of insanity is actually kind of impressive.
posted by Etrigan at 07:17 PM on February 05, 2015
Well, he's making a rhetorical point more than literally calling for them to be banned, but let's all agree that its time for Roger Goodell to be banned.
posted by Joey Michaels at 07:22 PM on February 05, 2015
Etrigan: That level of insanity is actually kind of impressive.
Uh. Yeah, what Joey Michaels said. It's clearly a rhetorical point, he explicitly copies the angry tirades of sportswriters who railed against the Patriots during DeflateGate as boilerplate for his own (satirical) condemnation of the Colts. As a rhetorical tactic, this is hardly shocking or revolutionary or "insane"; you've surely used this tactic yourself countless times.
The entire case of the DeflateGate ranters- and thus the two-weeks of unchecked hateful outrage that was fueled by it- has been debunked by science and now by the actual facts of the story.
- The science was convincing before; it's overwhelming now. The alleged PSI difference was virtually undetectable by hand, and conferred no apparent advantage. Now that we know that exact measurements were never even done before the game, and at half time showed only "a tick" under 12.5- more than explained by the ideal gas law- what we have is "the balls behaved exactly as expected and showed no signs of tampering". Film at 11...
- Well, almost all the balls. That magical "12th" ball was apparently the one handled by the Colts. So... either the Patriots deflated exactly one ball and that somehow was the one D'Qwell Jackson intercepted, or "two pounds" we all heard about was an exaggeration based on no actual measurements... or someone tampered with the ball at some point to let air out.
So what we're left with is a bunch of media assholes that were ready to essentially hand out a sports "death penalty" to players or a coach or an organization they are already biased against, all based on no actual evidence or facts. And truly, it wasn't just them- feel free to go browse the previous threads for your own amusing look at the Truth according to Sportsfilter.
Given their low evidentiary standards against the Patriots, isn't it just, fair, and proper to hoist those people up by their own hypocritical petard? To show using their very own words that witch hunts, and rushes to judgment, should be avoided- especially by those in the media? Given how many of them- and many of you, actually- were ready to demand Goodell hand out punishments ranging from fines to loss of draft picks to even booting the Patriots out of the Superbowl or suspending Brady or Belichick for one or more seasons.... shouldn't that same loose standard of evidence now apply to point number 2 above? If the only ball that was suspicious was handled by one team with a motive to tamper... why wouldn't we ask questions.
I mean, not that the writer- or myself- actually believes that, but like they say, "What's good for the goose...". Either we commit to a complete farce of a media and a joke of due process, or we don't.
Eh, but what do I know? I'm just a guy who "[sounds] like a typical dumbass from an ESPN Facebook thread."
posted by hincandenza at 12:03 AM on February 06, 2015
I've cancelled plans to go on an eco tourist archeological dig this spring, and instead will be attending Hurley's OTA's, subscription rant retreats, and wilderness boot camp.
When we emerge from the boot camp, we should be ready to kick some ass.
posted by beaverboard at 07:53 AM on February 06, 2015
And truly, it wasn't just them ...
People here were basing opinions on what was being reported through unnamed NFL sources, just like you're doing now to claim full exoneration for the Patriots. But when the sources were claiming things that made the Patriots look bad, we were all supposed to wait and give them due process. Now it's OK to jump the gun instead of waiting for the ridiculously slow and complex investigation to be complete, I guess.
I'm just a guy who "[sounds] like a typical dumbass from an ESPN Facebook thread."
Were you expecting a positive reaction to the comment, "you should be embarrassed for yourself at this point"?
You're trying too hard to feel sorry for yourself and the Patriots. They haven't been punished; it didn't affect the Super Bowl; the game was great. If you have anger towards how random nimrods talked about this issue across the Internet and the sports world, go yell at them. Don't act like SportsFilter has been one of those places.
What you saw here was people wrestling with the issue and the NFL's approach to it, based on the information that was available at the time. The conversation of mine you're still sore about was exploring a simple premise you never attempted to address: If 11 of 12 Patriots balls were significantly low and 0 of 12 Colts balls were low, isn't that enough evidence to mete out punishment without trying to determine intent?
That's not a hard concept to grok. It doesn't require following elderly locker room attendants to the bathroom or talking about the ideal gas law. The NFL punishes teams all the time without getting into intent. The Pats didn't care about the Jets' intent when owner Woody Johnson talked about wanting Darrelle Revis back. They just care that a rule was broken and they want the Jets to be punished.
You were taking a different, more complicated approach and I acknowledged the validity of that. You didn't give me the same respect, and you still seem to be laboring under the idea I was out to get the Patriots. Not the case. I was rooting for the team to win.
Quite obviously, if unnamed NFL sources now claim only 1 of 12 Patriots balls was significantly low (and they are telling the truth), this has been a big bag of nothing. But to retroactively be butthurt at people here for what we were saying under a different set of information is weak.
Enjoy your Super Bowl victory.
posted by rcade at 08:37 AM on February 06, 2015
this has been a big bag of nothing
Unless Harbaugh & Pagano sold the NFL a bill of goods and then deflated a ball to make it so.
They haven't been punished;
Of course they have. Every couple of days a new player or ex-player crawls out of the woodwork (where was Charles Hayley?) to say all of the Patriots' accomplishments are "tainted". The problem is without a strong clarification from the NFL (and Goodell's NFL isn't a hotbed of strong responses) this will become another ill-remembered myth, like how fans remember Spygate as "When the Patriots taped the Rams' practices" even though that was never true.
You're trying too hard to feel sorry for yourself and the Patriots.
It's not that hard to do when the enjoyment of Superbowl wins is constantly offset by people pissing and moaning. It's a nice problem to have and I'm sure everyone would trade but it sucks that my main hope for the Superbowl was for the Patriots to win so I didn't have to listen to non-Pats fans and non-NFL fan friends talk about how my favorite team is a bunch of cheating frauds. No real elation in the win, just relief.
If Deflategate turns out to be nothing, do you think Troy Aikman or Mark Brunell will apologize? Sports media has a real problem with chasing Hot Takes and Big Stories. No real coverage of concussions or player safety a year after it was The Big Story, but they're happy to report any crap a source wants to tell them and there are no consequences to being wrong.
In the particular case of the Patriots, it feels like there's value to the Cheatriots narrative: it soothes the fans of other teams who keep getting stomped. No need to feel like your team is run by clowns who couldn't organize a one-car funeral, it's only that the Patriots are doing something nasty. It's not that Bill Belichick is bright enough to take the dumb teams to the cleaners in the draft, it's not that the Patriots go by what math says on 4th down instead of relying on a giant gut like Andy Reid and Mike McCarthy, it's not that Belichick works the clock because he doesn't get nervous at the end of games, it's some outside agency that causes the team you spent $100 on a jersey and 70 hours of your weekends on each year to spit the bit.
It's just like the worst of politics and all the other magical thinking in this country. I'm off to get unvaccinated to see if that makes it go away.
posted by yerfatma at 09:55 AM on February 06, 2015
Enjoy your Super Bowl *victory
fixed that for ya ...
All the best,
Charles Haley, Kurt Warner, New York Jets, Indianapolis Colts, Baltimore Ravens, NFL Officials, and Fans of football everywhere
posted by cixelsyd at 09:58 AM on February 06, 2015
Oh, one of the other things dumb teams do that amuses me to no end: throwing challenge flags like they're based on morality or rightness. Rex Ryan probably could beat Belichick on a regular basis if he would count to 3 (or however long it takes for someone who can see the replay to tell him whether to challenge) before throwing the flag. You can see it on his face when he does it that he hasn't thought about what he saw just what he wanted to see.
posted by yerfatma at 10:00 AM on February 06, 2015
Charles Haley, Kurt Warner, New York Jets, Indianapolis Colts, Baltimore Ravens, NFL Officials, and Fans of football everywhere
If you can't appreciate the accomplishments of people wearing other laundry, you risk becoming Oscar Wilde's cynic, "A man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing." And look who you're making common cause with:
- The Jets who haven't been to a Superbowl since Terry Bradshaw could still count them
- The Colts who abandoned Baltimore in the middle of the night, whose rich kid owner got a slap on the wrist for a drug arrest that would have landed you or I in Supermax, cut their franchise icon so they could tank to get a new one and promptly screwed up their good fortune by trading a first round pick for a bust of a running back. A team that couldn't beat the Patriots on the field so their GM used his position on the Competition Committee to change the rules in his team's favor, leading to football becoming basketball.
- The Ravens, another deadbeat dad of a team whose franchise icon was probably involved in a doubler homicide during their Superbowl week and then found magic deer antler spray to extend his career. And he's not exactly the only player on the team suspended for PEDs. Did I forget to mention a team that defended their star running back up until the video of him punching his wife unconscious leaked out of their hands? And then was so brave as to let the league handle the dirty work?
- Charles Haley, a mercenary who bounched from team to team as he wore out his welcome
- Kurt Warner: "Tom's a friend of mine"?
Fans of football everywhere. I guess. I'd think fans of the sport would be fans of the sport no matter who is playing it. If you spend your time coming up with reasons why other teams' accomplishments don't count, how will you recognize success when your team has it?
posted by yerfatma at 10:46 AM on February 06, 2015
If Deflategate turns out to be nothing, do you think Troy Aikman or Mark Brunell will apologize?
If only one of 12 balls was significantly deflated, the group to be mad at is the NFL more than anyone in the media. The league could have figured that out immediately and never let this blossom into a scandal.
I am having trouble believing that's the truth because it would be so freaking ridiculous of the league not to figure that out on the Monday morning after the AFC Championship Game. Bob Kraft is one of Goodell's biggest supporters. How could Goodell let this become a week-long mediastorm against his bud's team if only one ball was significantly lower than 12.5 PSI? The mind boggles.
It's not that hard to do when the enjoyment of Superbowl wins is constantly offset by people pissing and moaning.
That would get on my nerves, but I think it would be a minor annoyance compared to the satisfaction of the run your team has been on since 2001. What you've experienced with Bill Belichick and Tom Brady never happens any more. Teams don't carry a sustained run of excellence, year after year after year, and always enter the postseason as one of the Super Bowl favorites. They have a few great years and then it falls apart and they have to rebuild.
Someday you could be looking back at 20 years of mediocrity with only the occasional good season and zero-count-em-zero Super Bowl rings, the way I am as a Dallas Cowboys fan.
Or you could experience the NFL fan experience of Jacksonville, where an 8-8 season in 2015 would completely rock our worlds.
posted by rcade at 11:00 AM on February 06, 2015
What you've experienced with Bill Belichick and Tom Brady never happens any more.
I know it and definitely appreciate it. The hard part is knowing the end is closer than the beginning. It's like having an old dog. I know I am a spoiled New England fan when I'm worried this run will take some of the fun out of the sport in the future the way having Pedro makes every baseball game just a tiny bit less exciting than they used to be. That may also be old age and creeping dementia though.
posted by yerfatma at 11:08 AM on February 06, 2015
One of my regrets as a Cowboys fan is that I was so supportive of seeing Tom Landry and Tex Schramm out the door. Spoiled by the team's long success, 7-9, 7-8 and 3-13 seasons were all the suffering I could abide. The only coach and only GM in team history were gone after 29 years and I hardly missed them.
I don't have a sense of entitlement about Cowboys success any more. A playoff loss like the one they suffered to the Packers used to be a crushing blow. It felt as if their rightful place in the NFL was denied them. I had to overcome my profound sense of shock at a round of the playoffs being held without Dallas in it.
Now, I'm practically a parent about all of this. I applauded the team for doing their best even if it came up short, and I didn't even enjoy the cruel fate of the Packers a week later.
posted by rcade at 12:08 PM on February 06, 2015
yerfatma said things better than I did. Sorry if I snapped at you, rcade; like he expressed, I guess we're feeling defensive as Pats fans, when the message I'm seeing is that we should still feel ashamed or guilty for winning because we're such "cheaters".
posted by hincandenza at 08:00 PM on February 06, 2015
Apology accepted. Comparing you to an ESPN commenter was harsh, so sorry for that.
As I made that snarky comment I was dealing with a Polish spammer who created over 2,400 accounts on this site just to put a link in the bio.
I wonder what DeflateGate did to the resolve of Belichick and Brady to stick around. I could see them self-motivating on it for a while.
posted by rcade at 08:22 PM on February 06, 2015
the resolve of Belichick and Brady to stick around
It might add to their resolve just a bit, but football is Belichick's life, and has been since his childhood as the son of a coach. Brady, on the other hand, enjoys the game far too much to give it up anytime soon. I fear it will take serious, possibly career-ending, injury for him to sit down. How many more years? Who knows? You can bet it's not money motivating him. When he retires he will do the same thing I do, that is keep his wife working, live off his investments, and write snarky comments on SpoFi.
posted by Howard_T at 03:41 PM on February 07, 2015
I think Brady likes football because it gives him a chance to get away from his wife's armed security detail now and then.
She lets him keep playing because she knows he's in good hands with Belichick.
BB has a security detail too, but unlike Gisele's group, Belichick's operatives are unseen.
posted by beaverboard at 05:20 PM on February 07, 2015
Sports radio producer has extreme provocative opinion. You don't see that every day.