11/17/24
April 18, 2012
Working for the clampdown: Asham gets 4, Neal and Backstrom get 1, Shaw got 3 yesterday. Is Torres next? Shanahan strikes back.
Guessing we wouldn't be seeing this response without the reaction to the Weber hit. What Shanahan really needs to do is stop using injury as a basis for punishment. Start with 'a dirty hit is a dirty hit'; from there it's only a matter of how many games. Someone on SpoFi proposed escalating suspensions for each occurrence which sounds like a great start and would remove a lot of the arbitrariness.
posted by kokaku at 10:15 AM on April 18, 2012
I love this post, even if my heart goes out to Backstrom, who was trying to protect his head according to Lady Byng regular Dale Hunter.
posted by yerfatma at 10:52 AM on April 18, 2012
The current system is rewarding the offenders and not the victims.
How about a 10 minute penalty for cheap shots ... not a misconduct, but a penalty where the offender's team has to play shorthanded for 10 minutes. The current penalties just are not severe enough to matter.
Have a look at the current playoff situation - Alfredsson and Hossa are key players to their teams who have been injured by goons. Rangers and Phoenix benefit from their absence even if their goons are suspended for a few games; these jokers only get single digit ice time each game anyways.
posted by cixelsyd at 11:06 AM on April 18, 2012
Alfredsson and Hossa are key players to their teams who have been injured by goons
Carl Hagelin is a goon? He's a first-line player, 175 lbs soaking wet, won the fastest skater award, and had less than 25 PIMs this year.
His was a bad hit, deserving of suspension, but he's not a goon and the Rangers will certainly miss him in the line-up.
posted by 86 at 11:51 AM on April 18, 2012
The more this develops, the more I think the instigator penalty has done way more harm than good. Time was, Bob Probert was waiting to kick the living snot out of you if you touched Hossa...now, you wait for punishment that's largely arbitrary and, in the case of a concussion, regularly shorter than the injury you caused.
Intent to injure should have a mandatory 10 game minimum. Whether or not you were successful and even if the process is as arbitrary as it is now, at least you could put it in the back of players' mind that the penalty is way more severe than the short-term payoff. Repeat offenders lose half a season, then a season, then they're gone from the game.
posted by dfleming at 11:54 AM on April 18, 2012
a penalty where the offender's team has to play shorthanded for 10 minutes
Intent to injure should have a mandatory 10 game minimum.
Regardless of whether I agree with your proposals or not, I don't think they would work. We always celebrate the fact the refs swallow their whistles during the playoffs and the problem seems to stem from that mindset: the refs aren't calling everything and the league tends to either let stuff go or reduce the penalty for things they would crush in the regular season. I think you either figure out a way to legislate the game the same way during the playoffs as the regular season (unlikely and probably unpopular) or you let up on some of the anti-fighting stuff like the instigator rule and let the players police themselves.
Neither would be a perfect solution and there will always be regrettable incidents no matter the regulations.
posted by yerfatma at 12:13 PM on April 18, 2012
From what I've seen and heard of the playoffs so far, the only thing running through my mind about it.......seems like the lessons we've learned from Bertuzzi and Moore are long forgotten now.
posted by NerfballPro at 12:17 PM on April 18, 2012
No lessons have ever been learned. Moore's career was ended and Bertuzzi is still allowed to play the game.
Seems it will take no less than an on-ice death before the NHL decides to get it's shit together.
posted by cixelsyd at 01:08 PM on April 18, 2012
Neither would be a perfect solution and there will always be regrettable incidents no matter the regulations.
Sure, but if people wait for perfection, nothing's ever going to be there. The current approach doesn't work...something's gotta give.
I agree entirely with you that policing the game differently is a problem, but these types of incidents happen during the year too. A counter-measure of some kind, whether it a suspension that threatens your own career or allowing more fists to your face, might have a positive effect...or it might not. But given where we are today, it's hard to imagine something worse occurring.
posted by dfleming at 02:04 PM on April 18, 2012
No lessons have ever been learned. Moore's career was ended and Bertuzzi is still allowed to play the game.
This.
posted by NoMich at 03:07 PM on April 18, 2012
Torres suspended pending Friday hearing
That makes it sound like he won't play in Thursday's game.
Also, Hradek on suspensions
posted by kokaku at 04:04 PM on April 18, 2012
Torres has been suspended 'indefinitely'. Who knows how long he'll be suspended for, but he's in repeat offender territory and he's not a big star so Shanahan will probably come down on him hard.
posted by insomnyuk at 05:49 PM on April 18, 2012
Torres' hit was a clean hit a few years ago. Other guy has his head down, you bury him. Crowd goes wild. The fact that it is now a suspendable offense is a step in the right direction.
posted by tahoemoj at 06:05 PM on April 18, 2012
Leaving your feet was ok a few years ago? I find that difficult to believe, but my memory is shoddy.
posted by yerfatma at 06:27 PM on April 18, 2012
Leaving your feet was ok a few years ago?
Well, I'm not sure that he left them until he followed through on the upward motion into Hossa. The fact that we can disagree about it illustrates the point I was trying to make. My purpose wasn't to debate whether or not it was a clean or legal hit, or would have been five years ago. The point was that under current rules, there is no question that it was illegal. To me, that means that the NHL, at its own glacial pace, is moving forward to address head injuries.
posted by tahoemoj at 07:11 PM on April 18, 2012
Though the Hossa hit wasn't called a penalty in the game. The refs can do a lot better at moderating the games and keeping things from escalating. At least the league is starting to respond which is something.
Still, it seems like the NHL needs to decide that the old ways of hard-hitting needs to give way to a more finesse game. Players are too big, too strong, and too likely to injure the way things are now, especially when left unconstrained.
posted by kokaku at 09:18 PM on April 18, 2012
Even glass panes are being suspended
posted by kokaku at 09:33 PM on April 18, 2012
No lessons have ever been learned. Moore's career was ended and Bertuzzi is still allowed to play the game.
Sigh. You got me there.
Seems it will take no less than an on-ice death before the NHL decides to get it's shit together.
With Bettman as commissioner, it'd take the resulting lawsuits from said death before he could be bothered to take any action.
posted by NerfballPro at 06:26 AM on April 19, 2012
Seems it will take no less than an on-ice death before the NHL decides to get it's shit together.
Leaving your feet was ok a few years ago? I find that difficult to believe, but my memory is shoddy.
(#9, #8, #3)
posted by grum@work at 10:58 PM on April 19, 2012
Torres has been suspended 'indefinitely'. Who knows how long he'll be suspended for, but he's in repeat offender territory and he's not a big star so Shanahan will probably come down on him hard.
I'm tired of this "not a big star" crap.
Niklas Backstrom got a one-game suspension for a cross-check yesterday.
Alex Ovechkin was suspended 3 games this year for a dirty hit.
Kris Letang, Duncan Keith, Shane Doan, and Jeff Skinner have all gotten suspensions this year.
If you don't like the decisions, fine I get it, but stop trying to imply there is a conspiracy about who does/doesn't get a suspension.
posted by grum@work at 11:06 PM on April 19, 2012
It used to be no big thing.
Not to be too fine about it, but I'd say that was less egregious. Also, it was Wendell Clark, so it's ok by me. One of my all-time favorites.
posted by yerfatma at 08:22 AM on April 20, 2012
Niklas Backstrom got a one-game suspension for a cross-check yesterday.
Backstrom was the victim of bad timing. True, he deserved a penalty, and possibly a major for the cross check on Peverly, but since the penalty occurred at the end of the game AFTER time had expired, it was an automatic match penalty, which carries with it a one-game suspension. Since his appeal hit Shanahan's desk at the same time as several other incidents, there's no way it would have been rescinded.
As it turned out, I think Washington looked better without Backstrom, but Bruins' shots kept finding Holtby's glove.
posted by Howard_T at 09:52 PM on April 20, 2012
This only makes the Weber fine look more ridiculous.