11/23/24
October 26, 2011
Bottles tied to genitals in Manitoba hockey hazing: A 15-year-old hockey player in Manitoba was forced to parade around the dressing room with water bottles tied to his genitals, the teen's parents alleged in an effort to end hazing rituals in minor hockey.
posted by tommytrump to culture at 10:56 PM - 24 comments
Debo270, you're saying things that seem to me to contradict each other. It's stupid and it's childish and it's wrong, but it's funny and okay and should be tolerated? How do those things go together?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:47 AM on October 27, 2011
Some traditions are dumb, but they are still traditions. They are team building activities
posted by Debo270 at 09:51 AM on October 27, 2011
Let's ask the mother of George Desdunes if hazing is something we should just tolerate.
I don't think any form of hazing involving kids or college students is acceptable. It's institutional bullying, and in this case sexual abuse. Institutions have an obligation to put a stop to it.
posted by rcade at 09:56 AM on October 27, 2011
As i said. As long as no one is getting hurt....
posted by Debo270 at 10:01 AM on October 27, 2011
Groups that haze have proven they don't know where to draw the line safely. There's been one hazing death a year in colleges since the '70s. When I see Desdunes' mother say that "I find some comfort in knowing that this lawsuit may bring some changes in fraternities that will prevent other families from suffering as I have," it reminds me of what was said after Mark Seeberger died the same way at the University of Texas back in 1986.
posted by rcade at 10:09 AM on October 27, 2011
There is a difference between making the rookies do a dance and a frat making someone chug a bottle of alcohol.
posted by Debo270 at 10:10 AM on October 27, 2011
Some traditions are dumb, but they are still traditions. They are team building activities
What makes hazing team-building? When has humiliating, degrading, and possibly injuring (or even killing) a team member ever improved a team? That's some excuse people use to either haze themselves or withstand it.
posted by bperk at 10:40 AM on October 27, 2011
talked about the rookie dance
making the rookies do a dance
As long as no one is getting hurt....
Did you read the part in the article where they held down a naked 15 year-old boy, tied a heavy object to his scrotum, and made him drag it around the floor?
That isn't a "rookie dance", and I'm pretty sure that if someone did that to you that you'd feel like it "hurt".
Any hazing that involves a person's genitalia is definitely over the line. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise.
I prefer the hazing that MLB teams do, where the rookies (as a group) are required to wear outrageous outfits/costumes during a bus/plane ride (including being photographed by the media and seen by the fans).
Nobody gets hurt and everyone gets a laugh out of it.
posted by grum@work at 11:00 AM on October 27, 2011
Rookie initiation is part of sport, but there's got to be some boundaries involved.
What happened in Neepawa is sexual assault, and I can certainly understand why the players/victims were upset.
The coaching staff participation in and reaction to the event is alarming. I hope the league keeps a close watch on the situation and the people involved. There's a long history of whack job Hockey executive types around here and we don't want to see any more kids' lives damaged by these creeps.
It should be noted that an RCMP investigation is in process and criminal charges are being considered. At least 1 player is no longer with the team and currently does not have opportunity to continue playing junior hockey.
posted by cixelsyd at 11:10 AM on October 27, 2011
There is a difference between making the rookies do a dance and a frat making someone chug a bottle of alcohol.
What's the difference? College students drink alcohol all the time, but frats have proven again and again that some of them are so reckless they will make a pledge drink until he dies. A football team in New Mexico took sexual hazing to such a degree that six hazed players were sodomized with broomsticks. Hazing minors and college students is not harmless stupidity.
posted by rcade at 11:32 AM on October 27, 2011
I would have had him tie it on himself.
posted by Debo270 at 11:49 AM on October 27, 2011
Groups that haze have proven they don't know where to draw the line safely.
That's a logical flaw: groups that have been caught doing over-the-top stuff have proven they don't know where to draw the line. Suggesting that represents a majority of all hazing in the world seems like a reach to me.
posted by yerfatma at 12:07 PM on October 27, 2011
I didn't say anything about a majority. One death a year is enough to make the point.
posted by rcade at 12:42 PM on October 27, 2011
I've experienced hazing in a hockey setting and I can say from personal experience that it isn't any fun for the person being hazed. What I went through was pretty minor compared to some of the stuff that's been done. I don't think it should be condoned in any situation because of the potential for emotional trauma and the possibility of it becoming more dangerous.
posted by insomnyuk at 01:06 PM on October 27, 2011
I know I will now be told I am insensitive and Hazing is archaic, but if no one is getting hurt, I am not real bothered by it....
...I would have had him tie it on himself.
Certainly unfit to coach young men. Definitely part of the problem. But insensitive? How sensitive you are is immaterial when your callousness may be a threat to the community. In truth, anyone who reads or hears your opinion on this should be thinking not about your personality but about how to make sure you never hold a position of authority over children.
People who think sexual harassment is okay aren't insensitive. They're much, much worse.
posted by Hugh Janus at 09:03 PM on October 27, 2011
Did you read the part in the article where they held down a naked 15 year-old boy, tied a heavy object to his scrotum, and made him drag it around the floor?
Actually no, i had not read that part. I saw the first part about making them do a dance to music and then skipped to the end to see who got in trouble and thought who hasnt been made to do something stupid like that on a team. By the time I read the article again based on your comments, i was already in a hole.The dance thing i was ok with the sexual assult part NO FUCKIN WAY. The I would have let him tie the string on himslef line was sarcastic and dumb and should not have been posted.. Hugh, I would have ripped me as much as you did. I will make sure I read the whole article from this point forward. My bad.
posted by Debo270 at 08:23 AM on October 28, 2011
Actually no, i had not read that part.
That's what I hoped. I didn't think anyone could be that callous.
posted by grum@work at 11:32 AM on October 28, 2011
Debo-you're not clear on the rules around here. You're supposed to stand by your position, no matter how untenable it is, simply because it is the original position taken. Then wildly accuse anyone who tries to point out your folly by referring to them as "politically correct" or "fascist".* The interwebz work better if we all anonymously fling shit at each other like a cage packed with drunken monkeys.
Actually, I just felt compelled to acknowledge a class move.
*A shout out to my earlier, flame-throwier days
posted by tahoemoj at 12:05 PM on October 28, 2011
Thanks for the support tahoe,
Well in that case. As I read the article, I was a little offended that they only tied water bottles to their junk. Whats wrong with a big rock or one of those stones they use for curling. I saw this thing on Ripley's Believe it or Not where these guys pulled a plane with ropes tied to their junk. Maybe this team is just in training for a world record attempt.
You guys are some real jerks for trying to keep these kids down.
posted by Debo270 at 12:34 PM on October 28, 2011
Remove the stone of shame. Attach the stone of triumph!
posted by bender at 01:19 PM on October 28, 2011
Hugh, I would have ripped me as much as you did. I will make sure I read the whole article from this point forward. My bad.
You're a good man for saying so. I appreciate your follow-up, and I'm a little embarrassed at my vehemence. Thanks for taking constructively what I meant to be destructive. Your capacity for such reflection is an admirable quality, and I respect you for it. Thanks again.
posted by Hugh Janus at 02:18 PM on October 28, 2011
A compliment coming from someone going by the name of Hugh Janus is just what everyone needs to start the weekend off right! I love it. : )
posted by katman0625 at 05:13 PM on October 28, 2011
First action of the team's president was to force one 15 year old player who was hazed to apologize to his attackers for relating the details to a friend. After the player apologized to his attackers the president then immediately suspended the player in question.
The team's president, management, and coaches are still downplaying the entire event.
I'm sure glad my kid chose to play sports other than hockey.
posted by cixelsyd at 05:45 PM on October 28, 2011
Listen hazing is stupid and hazing is wrong, but come on. Suck it up. It happens, its part of sports, Is it childish and stupid, yes, but it's funny and everyone in a sport goes through it. Always one person who was offended and their feeling hurt. I know I will now be told I am insensitive and Hazing is archaic, but if no one is getting hurt, I am not real bothered by it. If they did it to one kid only and singled him out maybe, but they talked about the rookie dance, I am sure that everyone else on that team did it at one point. Deal with it.