11/17/24
March 30, 2011
SportsFilter: The Wednesday Huddle:
A place to discuss the sports stories that aren't making news, share links that aren't quite front-page material, and diagram plays on your hand. Remember to count to five Mississippi before commenting in anger.
Low-level muay thai fight takes a turn for the bizarre.
posted by grum@work at 08:18 AM on March 30, 2011
As I said last week, "I hope Matt Cooke will not be the James Harrison of the Nhl." Targeted above others. Well Todd Betuzzi, who has already ended one career, threw a nice little elbow of his own Monday. No suspension, no fine, nothing. He is a repeat offender. Can I get 2 games maybe??
Like I said last, I have no problem with Matt Cooke being suspended like he was. Can I at least get a little CONSISTENCY..
posted by Debo270 at 08:56 AM on March 30, 2011
"(Bertuzzi's) a pretty big guy and I skate pretty low to the ground," Johnson said in the Hawks' dressing room at Joe Louis Arena after the win. "I knew I was going to kind of have to take a hit to make the play there but I don't think it was anything malicious. He was very apologetic. (He) came walking right in here and said, "sorry."
Apparently the NHL agreed and is judging hits based on intent and action, not just action alone.
posted by apoch at 09:25 AM on March 30, 2011
Call the baseball cops: Jake Fox violates year's first unwritten rule
I've never understood the unwritten rule in both MLB and NFL that if one team is way out in front, everyone should essentially stop playing. You certainly don't see that in the NHL, where if one team is behind and pulls the goalie the other team is going to take as many cracks at scoring the empty net goal as possible even if only a second left in game.
posted by graymatters at 09:26 AM on March 30, 2011
Cavs beat the Heat! That's what happens when the Big(mouth) 3 doesn't get 94 points.
posted by graymatters at 09:34 AM on March 30, 2011
Call the baseball cops: Jake Fox violates year's first unwritten rule
Buck Showalter's return to the dugout has certainly been cranky so far, hasn't it? I mean, I expect it from Old Man Leyland, but c'mon, Fox is trying to get himself a spot on a roster.
Also, the opposite isn't true; if a team is up 10-0, pitchers aren't floating 85mph fastballs down the middle for the hitters to feast on, so why should anyone be letting them off the hook?
posted by dfleming at 10:20 AM on March 30, 2011
Hit the damn ball. That's the name of the game. Unwritten rules like this one are for losers. Anyone expecting major league players these days to intentionally make an out, or take a walk instead of driving in some runs, is being ridiculous.
posted by dyams at 11:14 AM on March 30, 2011
Unwritten rules in baseball during spring training? Showalter's an ass.
posted by rcade at 11:31 AM on March 30, 2011
Nobody is stopping him from swinging. Swing away at 3-0 if you think those runs are so crucial. You know what? I'm such a nice guy, I'll even put an extra runner on base for you.
The game is conceded, just don't be a dick and there won't be any problems.
posted by tron7 at 11:31 AM on March 30, 2011
At the time, Fox hadn't even made the big league team, either. So you have a kid trying desperately to get a job in his chosen profession and you want him to intentionally fuck up the interview because it might hurt someone else's feelings? It's the preseason, Buck and Jim; get over it.
posted by tahoemoj at 11:34 AM on March 30, 2011
Apparently the NHL agreed and is judging hits based on intent and action, not just action
So if Cooke had said sorry, it would be ok?
I am glad the player wasnt hurt and it seemed unintentional, but if the NHL wants to get tough on head shots, it has to do it across the board. I agree that is was prob not what he ment to do, if thats the case, give him 1-2 games, but give him something.
posted by Debo270 at 11:49 AM on March 30, 2011
No Debo, the NHL decided Bertuzzi didn't mean to hit him in the head.
posted by apoch at 12:08 PM on March 30, 2011
the NHL decided Bertuzzi didn't mean to hit him in the head.
Thats fine, but again, if you are going to take a stance on head shots, intent or not, a hit in the head is a hit in the head. Like I said before. I dont think he should have got a Cooke like suspension, but 1-2 games at least.
posted by Debo270 at 12:30 PM on March 30, 2011
The game is conceded, just don't be a dick and there won't be any problems
So why didn't they just call the game? It isn't like it counted. I don't think he was being a dick.
Not really a baseball fan, but does this kind of thing really matter all that much in spring training? Do teams who are ahead by ten runs just lie down in the regular season?
And what is with all these "unwritten rules" in baseball? Are there unwritten rules in any other sport? Inquiring minds want to know.
posted by steelergirl at 01:10 PM on March 30, 2011
You just can't suspend a guy for an unintentional hit to the head. If player A goes in for a hit on player B's body, and player B goes low knowing it will take player A out for a couple games, you'll have head shots on every shift. Get rid of the Cooke-style hits, then we'll worry about the "oops, shit, didn't know you were down that low" hits.
The thing I hate is how high profile these kinds of things become when it affects a superstar. When Marc Savard was hit by Cooke, most everyone (outside Boston and Cooke haters) just shrugged it off and moved on. But when it was Sidney Crosby out indefinitely, suddenly something must be done yesterday, to the point where people are screaming for players to be banned for unintentional hits. The NHL has to look at each hit in a vacuum and determine whether or not the hit (and only the hit) warrants penalty, then revise the penalty dependent on the player being penalized. Otherwise, you have players being unfairly penalized for past offenses, and other players not penalized harshly enough (or not at all) for much more egregious hits, simply because they're a bigger name or have a better reputation...
To Leyland and company, if you're down 13-3, get pissed that you're down 13-3, not because a guy swings on a 3-0 pitch. Besides, it's preseason...nobody really gives a flying damn what happens in these games...
posted by MeatSaber at 01:14 PM on March 30, 2011
But in the NFL if the ball carrier goes low and gets hit in the head, it is still a fine
player B goes low knowing it will take player A out for a couple games, you'll have head shots on every shift
I doubt anyone would be going out of their way to get hit in the head and knocked out.
posted by Debo270 at 01:18 PM on March 30, 2011
But in the NFL if the ball carrier goes low and gets hit in the head, it is still a fine
Good for the NFL. This isn't the NFL.
I doubt anyone would be going out of their way to get hit in the head and knocked out.
Are you kidding me? I can already see Tomas Holmstrom and Sean Avery arguing over who that move gets named after. Seriously, you can't see a 4th liner in the twilight of his career (Kris Draper comes to mind) willing to take one for the team if it takes a guy like Malkin, Crosby, Ovechkin, or Chara out for 2 games in the middle of the Stanley Cup Finals? Do you believe no batter has ever leaned into a pitch?
posted by MeatSaber at 01:37 PM on March 30, 2011
I can already see Tomas Holmstrom and Sean Avery arguing over who that move gets named after.
but avery is a douch
posted by Debo270 at 01:48 PM on March 30, 2011
The game is conceded, just don't be a dick and there won't be any problems.
How can the game be conceded when it's never been contested? The point of spring training games is not to win, but to prepare for the season and evaluate talent.
Any manager who would urge his team to lie down at the end of a blowout in spring training is an imbecile. He's giving up precious time.
posted by rcade at 01:49 PM on March 30, 2011
Has Showalter been quoted as saying that Fox broke one of the unwritten rules?
It may be (having been on the receiving end of this), that Showalter gave him the take sign and he swung anyway. So maybe Showalter is pissed that he didn't follow orders, not that he broke some ridiculous unwritten rule.
That would make a lot more sense.
From the article:
The Orioles manager was still fuming about it after the game as it apparently wasn't the first time this spring where Fox ignored a clear take situation.
posted by cjets at 01:57 PM on March 30, 2011
Brutal dirty hit in a Dallas-area high school hockey championship.
posted by rcade at 02:06 PM on March 30, 2011
Any manager who would urge his team to lie down at the end of a blowout in spring training is an imbecile. He's giving up precious time.
It's not lying down, it's just not doing extra to run up the score. Besides, swinging at 3-0 get-me-over fastball isn't helping anybody get ready for the regular season.
posted by tron7 at 02:25 PM on March 30, 2011
but avery is a douch
And very good at skirting the rules to get his team an advantage. Not too many players have had rules added mid-playoff round because of them...
swinging at 3-0 get-me-over fastball isn't helping anybody get ready for the regular season
Looking over the Tigers proposed defense, this situation might be perfect preparation for the regular season...
posted by MeatSaber at 02:50 PM on March 30, 2011
it apparently wasn't the first time this spring where Fox ignored a clear take situation.
But every Spring Training I hear about how 3-0 is different in spring and they let people hack to get their swings in. So which unwritten rule trumps which?
posted by yerfatma at 03:20 PM on March 30, 2011
Showalter is pissed at the entire division, including his own team. The guy may burn himself out before May.
posted by dyams at 04:49 PM on March 30, 2011
When Marc Savard was hit by Cooke, most everyone (outside Boston and Cooke haters) just shrugged it off and moved on.
You couldn't be more wrong.
Mike Richards destroyed David Booth back in October 2009 with a similar blind-side hit, and the NHL did nothing.
If anything, Cooke's hit on Savard could be considered the catalyst for the entire "hits to the head"/concussion process going on in the NHL today.
You just can't suspend a guy for an unintentional hit to the head. If player A goes in for a hit on player B's body, and player B goes low knowing it will take player A out for a couple games, you'll have head shots on every shift.
Never mind a player deliberately going low, how would someone expect Chara (6'9") to body check someone like Nathan Gerbe (5' 5") when there is 16 inch height difference. Even if he throws a perfectly legal shoulder check into Gerbe, his elbow is going to be at the same level as Gerbe's head, even if he keeps his arms down.
posted by grum@work at 05:15 PM on March 30, 2011
So which unwritten rule trumps which?
I'm saying that Showalter gave him the take sign at 3-0 and he swung anyway. If he did that, he disobeyed the manager's direct order. Nothing unwritten about that. Just stupid.
posted by cjets at 05:18 PM on March 30, 2011
Brutal dirty hit in a Dallas-area high school hockey championship.
If ever you were going to make a court case out of a couple of hits, here they are.
posted by wfrazerjr at 06:20 PM on March 30, 2011
Brutal dirty hit in a Dallas-area high school hockey championship.
"...violent, even by NHL standards. But these are high school kids..."
Man, the NHL needs some PR help badly.
posted by grum@work at 10:45 PM on March 30, 2011
So which unwritten rule trumps which?
As a former baseball coach, I would hope that Showalter is upset because Fox was given a take sign and swung anyway. A hitter that ignores his coach is lucky if all that happens is he's pulled from a game. A coach can't have renegade players, and what better time to make an example of the kid but during a preseason game? He can pull the player without having to worry about consequences, as he would in a regular season game.
If the kid wasn't given a take sign, perhaps Showalter was going a bit overboard in an attempt to ease any potential hard feelings. Why get a feud going over a preseason game?
At least I hope one of those scenarios is what happened...it could be that Showalter is still a dick.
posted by dviking at 12:39 AM on March 31, 2011
Missing a sign is understandable, and I would think a player trying to make the squad would realize that ignoring the manager would cause more harm to his cause than getting a hit in a blowout game would help.
In college I missed a take sign from the manager and wound up crushing a homer. The manager was screaming at me from the time I rounded second until I got into the dugout.
posted by dyams at 06:06 AM on March 31, 2011
I love that the newscast in Dallas starts with two sports-related stories. I get the hockey thing being sensational and all, but following that up with the Dez Bryant story as opposed to more important local, national or international news just serves to reinforce outsiders' perception of the priorities down there.
posted by holden at 10:27 AM on March 31, 2011
Call the baseball cops: Jake Fox violates year's first unwritten rule