11/05/24
October 05, 2010
Vikes close to acquiring Moss: The Minnesota Vikings are attempting to pull off their biggest blockbuster since acquiring Brett Favre.
Moss has been a solid citizen in New England.
posted by rcade at 07:01 AM on October 06, 2010
Sounds like a dumb move all around, but whatever -- if Moss's heart is in Minnesota, you can't argue with that.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:36 AM on October 06, 2010
Some guys like Moss just seem to ensure that there's always a bit of extra mojo hovering about, even in areas beyond their control.
If the trade goes through, the Vikings with Moss travel to play the Patriots a bit later this month.
On Halloween, as a matter of fact.
posted by beaverboard at 08:06 AM on October 06, 2010
As a Jets fan, I approve of this move.
posted by afl-aba at 08:11 AM on October 06, 2010
As a Jets fan, I approve of this move.
I guess we'll have to wait and see just how much you approve of this move after the Monday night game.
posted by BornIcon at 08:49 AM on October 06, 2010
As a Pats fan and a Moss fan, I'll be sorry to see him go. Even sorrier to see him potentially salvage Brett Favre's season. And worst of all, to come back, potentially beat the Pats and force us to go through a week-long ESPN-stravaganza of "Will they boo or cheer?" as yet another referendum on the citizenry of New England.
It seems a strange time to move him for a 3rd round pick, but I understand they want to get something for him and it's really about 2011 for the Pats, assuming there is a season.
posted by yerfatma at 08:52 AM on October 06, 2010
Apparently the deal is done. Some more info on it.
posted by yerfatma at 08:56 AM on October 06, 2010
" The Patriots would be receiving a third-round pick when the deal is completed, which could be at any time now. That gives coach Bill Belichick two picks in the first, second, third, and fourth rounds in the 2011 draft."
Ah crap.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 09:08 AM on October 06, 2010
Think of how good the Vikes might have been by now developing the talent they had rather than spending big money on retreads who want to operate by a different set of rules
Check their drafts the past few years. They've actually done a really good job of exactly that. (Everywhere but QB at least.)
posted by TheQatarian at 09:27 AM on October 06, 2010
"The Patriots would be receiving a third-round pick when the deal is completed, which could be at any time now. That gives coach Bill Belichick two picks in the first, second, third, and fourth rounds in the 2011 draft."
The Vikes make another trade that makes a different team stronger. Gee, thanks, Vikings.
posted by scully at 10:11 AM on October 06, 2010
Check their drafts the past few years. They've actually done a really good job of exactly that. (Everywhere but QB at least.)
Exactly my point. They've done a great job finding talent via the draft, and develop players in most positions extremely well.
Not sure that Tarvaris Jackson is the answer, but he improved significantly year to year prior to Favre's arrival, from 9 TD 12 Int and a rating of 70 to 9 TD 2 Int and a rating of 95 in only 5 starts.
I'm thinking the Vikes are a much better team with Jackson and another year under his belt than with retreads who don't attend training camp, practices or team meetings unless they feel like it.
If the Vikes get Moss at least Favre will have someone to go golfing with while the rest of the team practices.
posted by cixelsyd at 10:31 AM on October 06, 2010
There has to be another angle to this somewhere because any way you slice it this makes the Pats weaker.
They're weaker this year because even if Moss isn't making catches he demands double coverage. Teams can now free up an extra defender on the other Pats.
The 3rd round draft pick is kind of a joke. They move up a little bit because if Moss had left for free agency in 2011 the Patriots would have received a compensatory 5th round draft pick.
For all of those nervous about Belichek and all of those 2011 draft picks, the chances are that 2011 will be the weakest draft year in recent history. With a NFL lockout looming large, there will be a lot of college players choosing to opt out of 2011. Why risk entering a draft if you're not going to get a contact anyway?
posted by jeremias at 10:58 AM on October 06, 2010
They're weaker this year because even if Moss isn't making catches he demands double coverage.
Yeah, that's the thing I can't get away from. I don't see how dealing Moss with 75% of the season remaining makes sense if all you get is a 3rd round pick. Peter King claims there's a little bit more than a 3rd rounder, but it still weakens the team. That running attack the Pats seem to have developed? It works a lot better when you see a lot of nickel and dime. Those new tight ends everyone's happy with me (me included)? It's a lot easier on them when Welker and Moss demand double coverage.
I've been thinking this week about how good the team could be in 2011 (assuming the season happens), but a lot of it was predicated on resigning Moss to keep opposing defenses honest. As bad as the Pats' defense is this year, they don't have that many holes to plug. Assuming McCoutry is a decent CB, he and Bodden can hold down the corners. They can pick two safeties out of Chung, Merriweather, McGowan and Sanders. Mayo, Spikes and Cunningham look like the LBs for the next few years. With Vince Wilfork signed and Ty Warren back, all they need is a stud OLB and possibly one DE (and that's only if Brace/ Pryor/ Gerard Warren don't work out). On top of that, most of those players (basically other than the Warrens) are under team control through at least 2013.
The same is true for much of the talent on offense: both new TEs, Edleman, Brady, Tate, Vollmer and a couple of backup linemen are tied up. There's been talk of using the Raiders' #1 to pick Mark Ingram. If they did that and updated the offensive line (which they've been able to do throughout their run), they're back to being a contending team.
But I don't know how well the offense runs without Moss drawing all that coverage. The only team that played him man-up so far was the Jets. Admittedly they're one of the only teams that can, but they beat the Pats fairly easily.
posted by yerfatma at 11:17 AM on October 06, 2010
The deal makes sense for the Vikings, who are all about this year, period. For all of Moss's faults, he can stretch the field for Minnesota, which can be nothing but a positive for Adrian Peterson, whether Moss is catching the ball or not. New England also doesn't have to deal with Moss's contract and attitude regarding it, and New England will likely turn the draft picks they receive into decent players on their roster.
But if things don't pan out (a Super Bowl championship) for the Vikings this year, I believe you'll see wholesale changes with the team, from Favre being gone, to Moss and Childress hitting the bricks, too. Minnesota has already set up a setting where certain players can not report to camp, can pretty-much do whatever they want, and the team will kiss their asses to get them on the field, then the writing is on the wall that Moss will ultimately become a problem/distraction. New England can handle player issues, Minnesota likely won't.
Sounds to me like a good move for the Pats in the long run. They don't usually make moves without a solid backup plan.
posted by dyams at 11:22 AM on October 06, 2010
The Vikes make another trade that makes a different team stronger.
You're comparing this to the Herschel Walker deal? Seriously?
posted by TheQatarian at 11:35 AM on October 06, 2010
New England also doesn't have to deal with Moss's contract and attitude regarding it, and New England will likely turn the draft picks they receive into decent players on their roster.
The first half of your sentence I agree with, by all reports Moss was not a divisive factor with his teammates but with the organization. This move seems to fit with the Pats ditching of Laurence Maroney and Adalius Thomas. All three were publicly critical of the Patriots organization. The difference is that while Maroney and Thomas were objectively underachievers, Moss was not. In fact, you can make the argument that he would have been forced to over-achieve this season in order to increase his value on the free agent market. But it seems like the Pats are betting that "team unity" is more important than raw talent.
Regarding the draft picks, I'm not convinced that the Patriots have had a great track record over the last few years on this, although this year seems pretty good, so maybe they turned a corner.
Still, they have one of the league's most inexperienced defensive lines and now you're removing your most experienced offensive player?
Unless there is some trick up their sleeves this is a bridge year for the Pats.
posted by jeremias at 11:46 AM on October 06, 2010
Sounds to me like a good move for the Pats in the long run. They don't usually make moves without a solid backup plan.
Perhaps this may be good in the long run, but, as jeremias has stated, this is not a foregone conclusion based on the somewhat spotty draft hauls of the past few years.
I also take slight issue with the "solid backup" plan, in that I am not sure if there is a solid backup plan for this year in place. It is like the Seymour trade last year, which weakened a critical aspect of the team in that year in the hopes that they could play around them and succeed despite shortcomings on the defensive line, in the hopes that the compensation from the Raiders would help them offset the loss in the long run (plus obviously freeing up some cap space).
posted by holden at 12:28 PM on October 06, 2010
Vincent Jackson to the Pats in three... two...
posted by Mr Bismarck at 01:14 PM on October 06, 2010
Bismarck,
Interesting idea. The Pats definitely have the draft picks available, & Jackson is an elite receiver who is a good deal younger if i recall. The issue: Jackson has already shown himself to be extremely contentious with ownership if he doesn't get what he wants. The Pats, with this Moss trade, have shown that if anything he would be a bad fit for them.
posted by brainofdtrain at 01:25 PM on October 06, 2010
Apparently this trade was becoming inevitable.
posted by brainofdtrain at 01:28 PM on October 06, 2010
I am not sure if there is a solid backup plan for this year in place.
You're right. There may not be a truly solid backup plan for THIS year. But if problems are beginning to arise with Moss, not to mention him thinking he's going to either get huge money from New England, or wind up leaving, then getting solid draft pick compensation from a desperate team like the Vikings is a great move. It's possible New England has noticed Moss coming closer and closer to a meltdown, and have decided they need to move on him now rather than get saddled with a bigger problem later that nobody wants to touch. Teams have to move players when they still have some value.
As for Vincent Jackson, the crap San Diego pulled trying to demand ridiculous compensation in return is proof when a decent offer presents itself, teams need to move on it. There's no way, at this point, Jackson is anywhere near the receiver Randy Moss is or ever was, so I doubt New England is going to fall into the trap of giving into San Diego's demands.
posted by dyams at 02:01 PM on October 06, 2010
Being from Wisconsin and seeing the Packers play the Vikings twice a year, I've often wondered what it would be like if Favre and Moss were on the same team. I'm really hoping it'll be like that Monday night game after Favre's father died where he just flings balls down field willy nilly in hopes that his tall receiver will catch them. I remember that game being fun to watch.
posted by tron7 at 03:31 PM on October 06, 2010
I think that yerfatma's analysis says it (almost) all. I would add a couple of things. Brandon Tate has amazing wheels, and if he can avoid the jam off the line of scrimmage, he could do some damage. As for his not getting doubled, one deep completion to him will change that in a hurry. Wes Welker also draws some double coverage when he goes deep. That was shown on the play when Woodhead scored on a short dump over the middle. Both Moss and Welker were doubled, leaving one man (a linebacker, if I remember correctly) on a quick running back in space.
I recently read (don't remember where) that Belichick looks toward the latter part of the season as he builds a team. That is, he wants the team performing at its peak during the last 4 or 5 games before the playoffs. With as young a team as the Patriots have this year, this may or may not happen, but the Moss move makes sense in that context. They obtained Moss for a 4th round pick, got some great years (and 50 TD pass receptions) from him, and moved him for a 3rd rounder. That sounds like a good deal to me.
posted by Howard_T at 04:08 PM on October 06, 2010
They obtained Moss for a 4th round pick, got some great years (and 50 TD pass receptions) from him, and moved him for a 3rd rounder
Moss had little value when he was picked up as he was known to take many plays off in Oakland ("what, me block"?). The Patroits increased his value and dumped him before he self destructed and completely destroyed the "team" approach NE has.
posted by cixelsyd at 04:27 PM on October 06, 2010
As a fantasy football owner of Favre and Brandon Tate, I\'m all for this, makes both of those players better.
As a Vikings fan, I\'m all for it, makes the team better, and the 3rd round pick is a small price to pay. Favre is done after this year, Jackson most definitely is not a Super Bowl bound QB, so why not give it the best shot now?
Any comparisions of this trade to the one involving Herschel Walker, are a complete waste of the time it took to type them.
posted by dviking at 05:31 PM on October 06, 2010
As a Jets fan, I approve of this move.
As a Jets fan, I think it's no coincidence that the trade was made now.
posted by cjets at 06:24 PM on October 06, 2010
Favre could potentially have both Randy Moss and Sidney Rice as options in the second half of the season, with Percy Harvin underneath and All Day on the ground.
posted by kirkaracha at 07:56 PM on October 06, 2010
As a Jets fan, I think it's no coincidence that the trade was made now.
Agreed. But after Mon night, how often will the Jets face Moss again? And this makes the next Pats game even more delectable. Approved.
posted by afl-aba at 12:05 AM on October 07, 2010
But after Mon night, how often will the Jets face Moss again? And this makes the next Pats game even more delectable. Approved.
Eating one's pie before it is served is seldom a good idea.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:34 AM on October 07, 2010
I don't think it was a coincidence that on Monday night's game Moss did not catch one ball and one that hit him, in what has to be one of the best pair of hands in football was mysteriously dropped. Was he making a statement as to the effort the Pats can expect from now on? He had asked for a trade since before the season. Funny how suddenly getting butter fingers facilitated the trade so quickly.
I have both Minnesota and New England in a pool and frankly I think the move is good for both teams. Minnesota is desperate for a game changing big play receiver since Rice was injured and Moss fits the bill perfectly. He will be even a bigger asset when Rice returns. The Pats realized he wasn't going to really play anyway and was in the last year of a contract so they move up a couple of rounds with the compensation pick, which give them a lot of high picks next year and they are a team that knows how to pick em.
Win win for all involved. Except maybe Pats fans who love to see miraculous one handed grabs.
I think cixelcyd said it best. One mans ex is a different someone's soulmate.
posted by Atheist at 12:20 PM on October 07, 2010
Eating one's pie before it is served is seldom a good idea.
I'm merely envisioning eating the Pats' pie. Besides, who is the Pats' deep threat now?
posted by afl-aba at 03:09 PM on October 07, 2010
AFL, I'm much more worried about Favre to Moss right now, especially with Revis questionable for the game.
posted by cjets at 04:08 PM on October 07, 2010
Think of how good the Vikes might have been by now developing the talent they had rather than spending big money on retreads who want to operate by a different set of rules ......