11/05/24
July 20, 2010
Michael Jordan: 'No Way' I'd Do What LeBron Did: "There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team.' ... In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys." -- Michael Jordan
posted by rcade to basketball at 05:36 PM - 29 comments
Slap, and Double Slap. Hilarious!
posted by MW12 at 06:27 PM on July 20, 2010
He's no less a corporate dick gobbling asshole, but MJ's point is well taken. It'll be interesting to see how much the Heat press it next season to silence the naysayers.
posted by afl-aba at 10:58 PM on July 20, 2010
So, I don't really follow the NBA all that much. Never really have. But I do see highlights and know the big names and some of the role players in the league, so I don't feel that I'm totally clueless here.
But is Chris Bosh really the equivalent of a Magic Johnson or a Larry Bird?
posted by BoKnows at 12:45 AM on July 21, 2010
But is Chris Bosh really the equivalent of a Magic Johnson or a Larry Bird?
Every photo I have seen makes him look higher than Snoop Dogg.
posted by scully at 08:26 AM on July 21, 2010
I'm changing my tune on this. I don't want to celebrate the extreme hubris of Michael Jordan. Why should we be celebrating a player like Michael Jordan who wanted to win and, more importantly, wanted to be the center of the universe while winning? Isn't Lebron's attitude that he wants to win while being a part of a great team preferable?
posted by bperk at 09:38 AM on July 21, 2010
Oh it will certainly be preferable from ESPN's point of view for the 8 weeks leading up to the NBA playoffs, and if they win, the 8 weeks afterwards.
posted by feloniousmonk at 09:43 AM on July 21, 2010
Isn't Lebron's attitude that he wants to win while being a part of a great team preferable?
I think LeBron would prefer to win and be the center of the universe while winning. However after several years of trying and failing he is now content to win a championship any way he can.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 10:36 AM on July 21, 2010
Isn't Lebron's attitude that he wants to win while being a part of a great team preferable?
No, and I think that's the point. Michael was great and wanted to win and win at everything BECAUSE of himself, whether to prove it to himself or to prove it to other people how great he really was. Heck, he even went so far as to prove he could win at 2 sports (baseball/golf) he never focused his career on.
Lebron doesn't care how he wins, he just wants to win. It's not about proving his athletic superiority over his peers, it's about getting a ring...period.
I consider the former much more preferable from an athletic achievement standpoint.
posted by bdaddy at 10:48 AM on July 21, 2010
Now Magic is coming out and saying the same thing. Then again, he had the benefit of playing with Kareem and Worthy, who were the (at least) equal of Wade and Bosh, I think.
posted by Uncle Toby at 10:49 AM on July 21, 2010
Michael was great and wanted to win and win at everything BECAUSE of himself
But MJ didn't win because of himself. People seem to forget that he won with Scottie Pippen by his side and then won his last 3 championships when they added one of the greatest rebounders of all time, Dennis Rodman.
Now Magic is coming out and saying the same thing.
What's funny is how when Karl Malone and Gary Payton both went to the Lakers seeking a championship, Magic was elated about that. Is this any different?
posted by BornIcon at 11:06 AM on July 21, 2010
Heck, he even went so far as to prove he could win at 2 sports (baseball/golf) he never focused his career on.
Sure didn't prove much in either sport.
posted by mjkredliner at 11:11 AM on July 21, 2010
I consider the former much more preferable from an athletic achievement standpoint.
I agree with your recap for the most part. MJ wants to prove his superiority. Lebron wants to win a ring. I just disagree on which trait we should admire in athletes, especially athletes in team sports.
posted by bperk at 11:18 AM on July 21, 2010
When Michael Jordan made his score-settling induction speech, I was shocked by how petty he was. He turned ever personal slight into a reason to push himself to individual excellence.
If LeBron is really about winning with Wade and Bosh as a team, and he doesn't treat them like his supporting players, then I think a lot of fans will come around on him.
I admire it when people are willing to sacrifice some personal glory to help their team win. I don't know that LeBron did it here, but I think it's possible. Wade is a great player with a ring already. If LeBron had to be the man, he could've done it in New York or stayed in Cleveland.
posted by rcade at 12:55 PM on July 21, 2010
What's funny is how when Karl Malone and Gary Payton both went to the Lakers seeking a championship, Magic was elated about that. Is this any different?
I think it is different, as in the Malone and Payton scenario you had two past their prime players (with legacies largely set) signing on for one last shot at a ring in secondary roles versus this situation in which you have three in their prime players coming together to form a super team.
posted by holden at 01:22 PM on July 21, 2010
I think it is different, as in the Malone and Payton scenario you had two past their prime players
It's not any different at all. So what if the Mailman and the Glove waited until they were past their prime? That's their problem. LeBron was smart to leave now and team up with players that are close to his caliber of talent in order to try to win now while they are just reaching their prime in order to win multiple championships.
Look at Kevin Garnett, he spent the first 10 years of his career with the Timberwolves and regrets not leaving any sooner. The first year that he's with the Celtics, they win it all.
posted by BornIcon at 01:33 PM on July 21, 2010
I'm curious to see how Bosh handles going from being the big fish in a small pond to being a small fish in a big pond.
posted by grum@work at 02:22 PM on July 21, 2010
The major difference isn't players signing to a team to play together. Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett didn't get 10% of the flak LBJ is getting...but that's because they didn't stage an hour-long special on ESPN to announce it...
posted by MeatSaber at 03:16 PM on July 21, 2010
Neither Ray Allen nor KG had a choice in the matter, technically. The Celtics traded for them.
posted by yerfatma at 03:28 PM on July 21, 2010
It's not any different at all. So what if the Mailman and the Glove waited until they were past their prime? That's their problem. LeBron was smart to leave now and team up with players that are close to his caliber of talent in order to try to win now while they are just reaching their prime in order to win multiple championships.
The concept of a near-the-end-of-the-line veteran signing with a good team in hopes of winning a championship in his last year(s) is one with a good deal of currency and precedent throughout the sports world (e.g., Ray Bourque with the Avalanche, the aforementioned Glove/Mailman situation with the Lakers, Junior Seau with the Patriots, etc.). What is unprecedented here (in addition to the theatrics/PR surrounding it) is the whole free agent summit thing and multiple in their prime players deciding to play together; there is really just no past example of this having taken place. I have no opinions on whether it is right or wrong, good or bad (although I think LeBron comes out of this with some tarnish on his legacy in the long-term), but to say this is the same situation as when Malone and Payton signed with the Lakers or when Garnett (whose best years were behind him) and Allen (ditto) were acquired via trade by the Celtics (another key distinction in terms of trade v. free agent decision) is a bit wrongheaded.
posted by holden at 03:29 PM on July 21, 2010
What I love about MJ's digs here is that Lebron holds MJ in such high regard that his words have to sting, and hopefully knock Lebron down a couple pegs (a blow Lebron's ego deserves in the wake of all the hoopla surrounding "The Decision").
But I think Barkley makes the more interesting point when he says:
"If you're the two-time defending NBA MVP, you don't leave anywhere. They come to you. That's ridiculous. I like LeBron. He's a great player. But I don't think in the history of sports you can find a two-time defending MVP leaving to go play with other people."
posted by MW12 at 03:40 PM on July 21, 2010
..to say this is the same situation as when Malone and Payton signed with the Lakers or when Garnett (whose best years were behind him) and Allen (ditto) were acquired via trade by the Celtics (another key distinction in terms of trade v. free agent decision) is a bit wrongheaded.
It may not be the same exact situtation but that's simply because as you pointed out, this hasn't happened before. Great players joining forces like Voltron has never happened so therefore people don't really know how to react to it.
The way that LeBron made his exit from Cleveland is what left a bad taste in peoples mouths but having a super team is sort of like what the Yankees have done in baseball. Collect some of the best players in the game, group them together and hope for the best.
posted by BornIcon at 03:59 PM on July 21, 2010
I think MeatSaber nails it. It's the fact that LeBron went on TV for a freaking hour to make this announcement. That comes across as one the most arrogant shitheel moments in sports. That's the popular perception anyway.
And that Charles Barkley quote that MW12 posted shows the difference between what LeBron did and what the Lakers did by acquiring Malone and Payton. The alpha dog stays home and all of the necessary role players come to him and help him out.
posted by NoMich at 04:00 PM on July 21, 2010
The alpha dog stays home and all of the necessary role players come to him and help him out.
But, isn't that a pretty awful way to look at a team game?
posted by bperk at 05:37 PM on July 21, 2010
I admire it when people are willing to sacrifice some personal glory to help their team win
LeBron could have stayed in Cleveland, signed for a reasonable amount of money but allowed some cap space to allow the Cavs to sign another key player or 2 ... this move isn't about anything but Lebron, and wasn't executed with anyone but LeBron in mind.
.. or better stated:
comes across as one the most arrogant shitheel moments in sports
Again, the guy earned the right to choose his situation, he didn't earn the right to treat his supporters and fans with the arrogant shitheelness that he did.
posted by cixelsyd at 06:13 PM on July 21, 2010
It may not be the same exact situtation but that's simply because as you pointed out, this hasn't happened before. Great players joining forces like Voltron has never happened so therefore people don't really know how to react to it.
It's happened before. It just evolved differently. The Rockets had 3 Hall of Famers on them at the same time. The Lakers and Celtics have too at numerous times. These guys are younger, though, I grant you - but the idea was the same - the Superteam. I wouldn't say that the 2008 Celtics were over-the-hill.
It's still basketball. Like when Gasol went to the Lakers, he took less shots and scored less. People forget he was a scoring machine in Memphis. That guy is Lebron, I think. Lebron is a truly unselfish player. I suspect he'll average a significant amount less points and be looking to be Oscar Robertson and see if he can average a triple-double. I think Wade actually keeps most of his averages, with Bosh being a question-mark third option since his change will be the most drastic.
I think there's some confusion with why people are pissed about this. Now, I was one of them, and it was probably more of an overreaction, but still - it's not because "It's a team game and these guys are friends who want to win together". It's because our teams are never going to win in a world where players just run try-outs with the team that drafted them for a few years until they get to hit the big money free agent contracts (which are basically guaranteed) and join together to pick the location they like best because they aren't interested in winning with you, or your team, or your city. How can Toronto in February compete with Miami? How can Cleveland? What's the use in drafting a superstar if they're never going to stay?
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 06:45 PM on July 21, 2010
LeBron could have stayed in Cleveland, signed for a reasonable amount of money but allowed some cap space to allow the Cavs to sign another key player or 2
That's the thing, no one wanted to go to Cleveland. Chris Bosh was more than willing to play with LeBron in Chicage, New York or Miami but he wanted no part of Cleveland.
What's the use in drafting a superstar if they're never going to stay?
LeBron did stay, for 7 years. The Cavs organization were never able to supply LeBron with another superstar player to play alongside him. They get an over the hill Shaq before the season and instead of bringing in Amare Stoudemire before the trading deadline, they bring in Antawn Jamison (?). Was LeBron supposed to stay in Cleveland for the rest of his career just because he's from Cleveland?
posted by BornIcon at 09:31 AM on July 22, 2010
There is absolutely nothing wrong with anyone wanting to leave Cleveland.
posted by Hugh Janus at 06:51 PM on July 22, 2010
Ahem... Not that it was difficult to anticipate, but in truth Michael CALLED ME.