12/21/24
June 10, 2010
USC hit hard by NCAA sanctions: The often speculated but never confirmed transgressions of Reggie Bush implode a championship program, not to mention the hard work of all the other players over two years. As expected, Bush is staying true to form denying all allegations.
posted by irunfromclones to football at 04:49 PM - 24 comments
I actually find it somewhat difficult to blame Bush for this. Frankly the NCAA is a total fucking joke.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 05:12 PM on June 10, 2010
Blame Bush! It's like the early 00's all over again.
I must say that while I have no schadenfreude, I do not pity Kiffin at all. He jettisoned Tennessee when USC came calling and he knew this was on the horizon.
posted by holden at 05:44 PM on June 10, 2010
Why is it difficult to blame Bush (Reggie, not George) for this? Clearly, he knew the rules, and given that it appears that he, and his family, benefitted to the tune of some $300,000 I'd say he owns a big part of the blame. Yes, his coaches and others should have taken steps to prevent this, but, I'm all for the Heisman being taken away.
Did Pete Carroll receive any bonus money, or increased salaries, due to the National Championship? If so, I'd say he owes that money back to the school.
posted by dviking at 06:25 PM on June 10, 2010
Does this mean that Oklahoma is now the 2004 season national champion since USC forfeited its victory in the BCS national game?
posted by graymatters at 06:44 PM on June 10, 2010
Carroll said in a video statement produced by the NFL's Seattle Seahawks, who hired him in January. "I never thought it would come to this. ... I'm extremely disappointed that we have to deal with this right now."
Lane Kiffin to Pete Carroll: "What's this 'we' shit?"
posted by tahoemoj at 07:43 PM on June 10, 2010
According to the article, they still have to meet to discuss the national championship (for some reason), but if it is vacated, there will be no 2004 champion.
posted by bender at 08:01 PM on June 10, 2010
I vote Auburn.
posted by graymatters at 08:21 PM on June 10, 2010
I would not only take away the Heisman, but I would do my best to publicly humiliate Reggie Bush in every way possible. Same for Pete Carroll. Only way to send a message to young athletes and coaches that they can understand; You cheat and the consequences are horrific.
I hope every sports writer, reporter, analyst keeps at both of them about this for the rest of their careers.
posted by irunfromclones at 08:52 PM on June 10, 2010
Clearly, he knew the rules, and given that it appears that he, and his family, benefitted to the tune of some $300,000 I'd say he owns a big part of the blame.
Would you turn down $300,000?
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 09:30 PM on June 10, 2010
Would I turn down $300,000?
Not really the point is it? If I take the money, I'm guilty of the infraction, and thus shuld be subject to the penalties for doing so. If I don't, then I'm behaving like the majority of student athletes are, and living within the rules.
It's kind of like asking if I cheat on my taxes. If I do, and thus benefit financially from doing so, I'm breaking rules and I'd be held accountable if caught. If I don't, then I'm not subject to the IRS being able to find me in violation of the law. For the record, I would never cheat my government out of a penny of my money that is rightfully their's to waste.
posted by dviking at 10:11 PM on June 10, 2010
Would you accept $300,000 as an amateur athlete and put your entire team's standing and accomplishments in jeopardy?
posted by rcade at 10:11 PM on June 10, 2010
It's kind of like asking if I cheat on my taxes. If I do, and thus benefit financially from doing so, I'm breaking rules and I'd be held accountable if caught.
The thing that separates this from Bush's situation is what are the consequences for Bush? Sanctions for USC? I'm sure he could care less. Take away his heisman? Regrettable, but I'm sure it is still viewed as a fair trade.
Would you accept $300,000 as an amateur athlete and put your entire team's standing and accomplishments in jeopardy?
I don't know what Bush and his family's situation was when the money was accepted but there are many a star athlete who could do wonders for their family with $300,000.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 12:50 AM on June 11, 2010
$300,000. A bit more than Reggie Bush's mom would've made working as a Sheriff's Deputy at the San Diego County jail. The decision on taking away Bush's Heisman Trophy would be made by the Heisman Trust. The Trust is committee made up of nine members of the Downtown Athletic Club.
posted by Newbie Walker at 02:39 AM on June 11, 2010
Would you accept $300,000 as an amateur athlete and put your entire team's standing and accomplishments in jeopardy?
Fuck and yes. Would I ignore some abstract nicety enforced by a bunch of rich suits to make sure I got paid? Yeah, I would. The concept of "amateur" status used to be used by the rich to exclude the poor (c.f., Thorpe, Jim). Now they use it to assure the athletes are beholden to their money-making machine.
posted by yerfatma at 08:13 AM on June 11, 2010
I can't argue with you about the iniquity of the system, Yerfatma, but by taking money under the table you would be screwing over your teammates. For many of Bush's teammates, the 2004 National Championship was the pinnacle of their athletic careers.
posted by rcade at 08:41 AM on June 11, 2010
Maybe they should have played violin instead. The world's smallest.
posted by Hugh Janus at 08:57 AM on June 11, 2010
Maybe they should have played violin instead. The world's smallest
Really? It's all about whether, or not, Reggie Bush's family could live better with an illgotten $300,000? His teammates worked hard, and I'll wager that a fair number of them come from less well off familys than what Bush did. A Sheriff's Deputy is a pretty decent job, starts around $50,000 from the job site I checked...sure an extra $300,000 would be nice, but that's not the point.
I's not about the problems within college sports. Players receive scholarships and, in Bush's case, a portal through which to get into the NFL where he'll make millions. Most of his teammates will not make that kind of money, so why should he be allowed to get an extra $300,000 up front?
posted by dviking at 10:27 AM on June 11, 2010
I keep hearing about how this is unfair to the players who are still there and that the people who did the illegal activities are getting off scott free. While I do think that the NCAA should find a way to work with the professional sport "partners" to find a way in which to punish these "student-athletes" after they have left school, I do not have any sympathy for the people still at USC.
In this case the junior and senior "student-athletes" who are still at USC have the option of asking out of their scholarships and transferring to another school without having to sit out a season as is the norm for a D-1A transfer. For the sophomores they will have the option to transfer and keep 2 more years of eligibility if playing in a bowl game is that important to them. While it would suck for them to have to change schools because of the activities of others, how can they claim that they did not see this as a possibility. We have been hearing about how Reggie Bush was on the take since the end of the 2005 season. Yet these "student-athletes" still chose to attend USC. If this was something that had involved a current player and was resolved in less than four years, I may have a different take, but this is something that has been sitting on the horizon for a long time.
posted by Demophon at 02:55 PM on June 11, 2010
Demophon, not sure who you're referring to, I think people were talking about how unfair it is for bush's teammates to have to give up their National Championship. For many that was their last shot at football glory, and now it's tainted.
posted by dviking at 04:55 PM on June 11, 2010
In this case the junior and senior "student-athletes" who are still at USC have the option of asking out of their scholarships and transferring to another school without having to sit out a season as is the norm for a D-1A transfer.
And in doing so leave everything else behind. Believe it or not, many of these athletes have lives beyond the football field.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 04:56 PM on June 11, 2010
For many of Bush's teammates, the 2004 National Championship was the pinnacle of their athletic careers.
Yeah, that's a fair point. You asked whether I would. I never assumed I'd be any good. And I doubt any of the players feel like they lost a championship. Or gave back their rings.
posted by yerfatma at 05:19 PM on June 11, 2010
I don't have much love for USC, but I'm already on the record about the NCAA as the last bastion of shamateurism, and its sanction powers simply perpetuate that state of affairs. Juxtaposed with the current conference-hopping designed to fill the coffers with TV millions -- and I don't see the NCAA taking a position on that -- it looks ugly.
posted by etagloh at 10:24 AM on June 12, 2010
And in doing so leave everything else behind. Believe it or not, many of these athletes have lives beyond the football field.
Yet these same students already knew that this was a possibility. As I stated it has been a topic of conversation since 2005. They took the chance to lay down those roots that they must now sacrifice if playing in a bowl game is that important to them.
Demophon, not sure who you're referring to, I think people were talking about how unfair it is for bush's teammates to have to give up their National Championship. For many that was their last shot at football glory, and now it's tainted.
I do have some sympathy for people put in that situation, but not wholeheartedly. It does suck for them, I can not argue against that. I posted my comment after listening to a long discussion on Mike & Mike on ESPN about how this is unfair to the "student athletes" who remain at USC and how it is unfair that the Pete Carroll and Reggie Bush are essentially getting off without punishment. As to the tainted shot at glory, I still feel that these people should be happy with what they had. They still got to live the experience of being a national champion for 5 years, yes it sucks that the title is tainted by no actions of there own but if anything I feel worse for the players from Oklahoma and Auburn who had that opportunity to be champion cheated from them.
posted by Demophon at 09:38 AM on June 14, 2010
IF USC has to vacate every victory Bush played in then I think he deserves to have his Heisman jerked as well. What a complete scumbag. I hope that he hears from a lot of his former team mates that just got screwed out of championship seasons.
Pete Carroll played a huge part in this, and this certainly throws a great deal more suspicion on his decision to jump to the NFL. I pity Kiffin trying to deal with this mess. No bowls for two years, and the major deduction in scholarships is going to make attracting good prospects near impossible.