04/25/24
February 15, 2010
Former Canadian and World Champion Elvis Stojko on what ails men's figure skating: There's been a lot of discussion about masculinity and figure skating recently. Do you think the discussion has been productive?
It basically started about one year ago, when Skate Canada said that they weren't getting enough young boys enrolling in skating. People tiptoe around the topic, and I was like, "You know, I'm just going to say it: Effeminate men's skating is not my style of skating. In men's skating I like to see power and strength." [....] Some guys get into the sport because it's difficult the spins, the speed and they like to showcase that within the music. When you're not appreciated for that, it takes its toll. And then when people call them effeminate, they get pissed. People call them gay, and some people don't like to be called that.
Also sort of on topic:
I can sum up the primary problem with figure skating in two words: artistic impression. Not only does it comprise half of the scoring in the competitors' routines, it is also the tiebreaker. Which means that you get less credit for doing something well than you do for looking good doing it. Kinda goes against what I think of as "sport", but that's a debate for elsewhere.
Back on topic: Stojko is correct to a large degree. There just isn't much of a male audience for figure skating, so it's logical that male participation in it is going to suffer, especially if they are forced to be effeminate because females are the primary target audience.
I used to like watching Olympic figure skating when I was younger, but the problem I always had with it was that the person or team I thought was the best usually finished well out of the medals. And certain facets of the scoring system, including the one I mentioned above, always seemed kinda screwy. (I could give a dissertation on why I thought Kerrigan should have beaten Baiul in 1994 based on the actual scores, but I'll spare those details.)
posted by TheQatarian at 09:31 PM on February 15, 2010
There just isn't much of a male audience for figure skating, so it's logical that male participation in it is going to suffer, especially if they are forced to be effeminate because females are the primary target audience.
I don't know if I agree that it's "logical" that lack of a "male audience" leads to lack of male participation, or that "females" like to see "effeminate" men. I'm sure that all these factors are mixed up in there somehow; I'm just not sure I agree that the connections, cause and effect are quite that simple.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:23 AM on February 16, 2010
There's not much of a male audience for male strippers either, but that doesn't seem to affect male participation levels.
I see your point though, Qatarian; if young men aren't watching and enjoying the sport, it automatically limits the pool of young men from which a future world champion might emerge.
Is it a sport? Britain once won a gold medal at it, so probably not.
posted by JJ at 10:09 AM on February 16, 2010
Is it a sport? Britain once won a gold medal at it, so probably not.
That reminds me a lot of George Carlin's discussion on why anything other than baseball, football and basketball weren't sports, in which he quipped, "Gymnastics is not a sport because Romanians are good at it. It took me a long time to come up with that rule, but dammit, I did it."
posted by TheQatarian at 10:23 AM on February 16, 2010
Figure skating is the most-watched sport in the Winter Olympics. At its peak in 1994, the women's short program got a 48.5 share that made it the sixth most watched TV program in history. Although it's possible that women and gay men are the only viewers, I'm thinking you don't get numbers like that without a lot of heterosexual men following the sport every four years.
The pairs competition the last two nights had a few flamboyant and ridiculous costumes on the men -- the sad German clowns, the pair in neon blue Buck Rogers jumpsuits -- but some of the men were dressed so conservatively they looked like parking valets.
posted by rcade at 10:46 AM on February 16, 2010
Is it a sport? Britain once won a gold medal at it, so probably not.
John Curry 1976, Robin Cousins 1980, Torvill & Dean 1984.
Ah, whatever happened the great British skating tradition?
posted by owlhouse at 03:01 PM on February 16, 2010
What ails men's figure skating? 2 words: Russian Judges. Isn't that the usual answer to everything?
posted by Howard_T at 04:27 PM on February 16, 2010
I think most people think of men's figure skating as something very gay, probably because it is.
If men want to skate, that is the reason they invented hockey.
Certain things attract certain people. That is why not everybody is in the market for a pink dress. I think figure skating should just embrace the gay image and move on with it. Now if they want to attract young heterosexual males into ice skating they should create an x-treme ice skate acrobatics or free style tricks competition. As long as the men wear cute costumes, waive their arms and skate to Broadway Musical numbers, well the sport is pretty much stuck in gaydom.
posted by Atheist at 05:02 PM on February 16, 2010
Hey Atheist - there are gay hockey players. Whoa! Did I just blow your mind?
And I like figure skating. Stojko isn't necessarily right here, but I guess that's what you get when you're the most macho figure skater.
I had the luxury of being able to watch Kurt Browning practice and train in preparation for the 1996 games in Atlanta, and I can't describe to you how punishing that sport is. Wait - Browning wasn't gay either. Oh god, I'm so terribly confused now.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 05:14 PM on February 16, 2010
Yes Weedy there are some gay hockey players. But of course they are hard to find as they represent a relatively small percentage of the players. On the other hand it may be difficult to find the straight mens figure skaters, thus it may be completely fair to refer to it as a gay sport.
For the record I was being sarcastic and as a hetero male, I find the incredible athleticism of ballet or dance to be very entertaining.
posted by Atheist at 06:06 PM on February 16, 2010
But of course they are hard to find as they represent a relatively small percentage of the players.
On the other hand it may be difficult to find the straight mens figure skaters.
Documentation please.
posted by tommybiden at 06:18 PM on February 16, 2010
At its peak in 1994, the women's short program got a 48.5 share that made it the sixth most watched TV program in history.
That of course was the crowd tuning in hoping to see Tonya Harding decapitate Nancy Kerrigan with a flying scissors skate-kick to the head. Not the most representative figure skating moment.
posted by rumple at 07:21 PM on February 16, 2010
I'm thinking you don't get numbers like that without a lot of heterosexual men following the sport every four years.
The snarky line is that they're sitting through it because NBC promised to show some skiing after the break, but they didn't say which break. Or that they're watching to keep their partners happy.
Figure skating and gymnastics are the ratings (and cash) cows of American Olympic coverage, and everything NBC does revolves around them. Elsewhere, they're fairly highly-rated, but not considered anywhere near the most important events. Both are somewhat opaquely-judged sports with artistic components. The same applies to many freestyle winter events. And synchronised swimming. (The top ratings-getter on American television is American Idol, a somewhat-opaquely judged reality show with artistic components. I don't think that's coincidental.)
I don't want to get into a flame war, but there are clearly certain social, cultural and possibly gender-based biases that make some people prefer sports where the scoring is "hard" (points scored, time taken, distance travelled, first past the finish line) and others prefer ones where the scoring is "soft", and relies heavily on judges, and where there are trends that don't just affect the performance but become bound up with the outcome.
To clarify: you don't get points in the NFL just for setting up the wildcat formation, but you may get artistic impression points for skating in a style that's mindful of the judges' sensibilities. That gets us back on topic: the judging regimen plays a big role in shaping the aesthetics, and thus the perception.
posted by etagloh at 06:40 AM on February 17, 2010
The snarky line is that they're sitting through it because NBC promised to show some skiing after the break, but they didn't say which break. Or that they're watching to keep their partners happy.
So far into a thread about the watchability of women's figure skating, and no-one's referenced clam shots?
Shame on you, Sportsfilter.
posted by owlhouse at 06:44 AM on February 17, 2010
Did someone say clam shot?
posted by irunfromclones at 01:32 PM on February 17, 2010
Sort of on topic.
It's always concerned me that figure skating seems to restrict the more acrobatic elements. No flips or tumbles for example. So it ends up looking like dancing rather than gymnastics.
Without these restrictions, I've seen some terrific and exciting free skating which makes the standard Olympic routines look positively boring.