12/18/24
December 09, 2003
So I'm new, kinda.
I've been a member here for a while, but lurked on and off. I admit I know very little about sports, and only follow one sport (baseball) and one team (Milwaukee).
I'm trying to learn more - that's why I joined here and have participated more of late, to get a deeper understanding of this game I like. I've got some vaguely-formed opinions, and when I express them, sometimes I get my ass reamed. Not that I mind. I'm also a MeFi member, and I'm used to being pounded on for saying the wrong thing.
So here's my question: where do y'all go to actually learn about sports? I thought this place would be a good start, but it seems this is more for advanced fans who have a strong grasp of the sport, not for beginners. Also, I admit that I don't have access to all the coverage. Advice? Pointers? Insults? Bueller?
posted by rocketman to navel gazing at 10:13 AM - 84 comments
Dude, I think you're learning here. No pain, no gain, right? I've learned tons of shit here....like, um...gimme a minute, I'll think of something. Seriously, those ass-reamings are the most educational experiences. I once tried to argue with Hal about changing baseball/playoffs/something Costas said, and he showed me the light: the symmetrical beauty of the game, something I completely overlooked before. Hell, I didn't even consider a sport's rules to contain beauty.
posted by garfield at 10:33 AM on December 09, 2003
Actually, this is a really nice place, nothing at all like Metafilter. The Red Sox-Yankees discussions get a little warmer than most, but that's because they care... a lot. And you didn't get reamed, you just got disagreement and healthy criticism.
posted by dusted at 10:40 AM on December 09, 2003
hey, I'm sorry if i was a bitch to you. You kinda made a judgement on something you admitted you didn't know anything about, so maybe that's where the avalanche started with the fellas. Me? I read a lot, almost obsessively, about baseball and the Red Sox. Message boards, web sites, newspapers, magazines, books. Obviously there's espn.com and cnnsi.com, but I also have a ton of red sox specific sites that i read (sonsofsamhorn.com, redsoxnation.com, bambinoscurse.com and bostondirtdogs.com) and the local papers, boston.com and bostonherald.com, among others. For stat geek and reference stuff, I'll hit most of the ones grum listed, but sometimes peek at baseball-almanac.com I also like to keep up with the Yankees, since they are our direct competition. For that, I go to NYYFans.com. It's a fan based message board, and sometimes its full of hysteria and false info, but I like getting a window on how they think. For books, I started Moneyball and am still working through it slowly. I also have to finish Shut Out. I also listen to a lot of sports radio (even in the winter!). I catch some stuff on tv, but it's generally stuff I've already heard on the radio or read online. I've learned tons of shit here....like, um...gimme a minute, I'll think of something. girls like it when guys wear caps and jeans. remember?
posted by jerseygirl at 10:46 AM on December 09, 2003
rocketman, do not worry about the ribbing. Enough of that goes around during the fantasy baseball season* that most of us are used to it. Take the ribbing and give it back .. and keep it fun. *who is going to be the lucky commish this year? As for learning about sports you are not familiar with, watch the organized kids leagues. For them, the game is broken down into rules and fundamentals. That should give you a basis of the game in question and go from there.
posted by jasonspaceman at 10:46 AM on December 09, 2003
Well, I don't have much advice if you don't have a lot of media access. I learrned a bit watching sports with my dad as a kid, but most of what I've learned is the result of saturating myself with sports. Boston's a good market for that. And maybe it's not worth it. If I know 2% of all the knowledge there is about a sport, it can be infurating to be stuck at a bar or a social event or where ever listening to some prat drone on and on about how every player is overpaid, how the game was so much better/ tougher/ more honorable back in the [insert decade where prat watched 10+ games for once in his life], etc. And that leads to even worse: those prat arguments all follow a few simple patterns, which means you'll be able to recognize bullshit arguments in sports you know nothing about, which means you'll be able to recognize just how many males of the species are vacuous assholes who can't even present a cogent argument about their invalid ideas. Or maybe it's just me.
posted by yerfatma at 10:47 AM on December 09, 2003
jerseygirl, how could you forget to recommend the entire corpus of the CHB's work? That alone would teach you so much.
posted by yerfatma at 10:48 AM on December 09, 2003
Ahh, CHB. How ever did I forget. I can't even look at him without laughing anymore.
posted by jerseygirl at 10:58 AM on December 09, 2003
I think there's room on SportsFilter for novices; the A-Rod debate is one of the hotter topics in baseball so there's a lot of passion on all sides. I could get myself into the same kind of trouble by firing off an opinion on Premiership soccer players.
posted by rcade at 11:14 AM on December 09, 2003
Fair enough. Thanks for the feedback, everyone!
posted by rocketman at 11:24 AM on December 09, 2003
...which means you'll be able to recognize just how many males of the species are vacuous assholes who can't even present a cogent argument about their invalid ideas. I knew that before I even registered here. But the cap n' jeans is definitely news. Sorry, jgirl. Here's something to learn: girls don't always go for the $$$. I know, not sports related. But life is like sports....you never know who's gonna make the right call.
posted by garfield at 11:26 AM on December 09, 2003
SpoFi has been great for me in learning more about soccerassociation football, especially of the English variety.
posted by billsaysthis at 11:32 AM on December 09, 2003
the times all-purpose username/pw is spofi/sportsfilter don't get me started on average joe. i liked adam before last night's episode. he's an odd mix of adam sandler and matt leblanc, physically and personality wise.
posted by jerseygirl at 11:42 AM on December 09, 2003
Is this a baseball thread?
posted by StarFucker at 11:54 AM on December 09, 2003
and, in postscript, also redsoxnation.net
posted by jerseygirl at 11:59 AM on December 09, 2003
garfield: Seriously, those ass-reamings are the most educational experiences. SpoFi: Educational Ass-Reaming! jasonspaceman and rocketman: Are you related? I feel an intergalactic interview coming on. Let's do it on Uranus.
posted by worldcup2002 at 12:34 PM on December 09, 2003
I wouldn't worry about it old chap, the Yanks are clueless when it comes to soccer, but it doesn't stop them commenting upon it. The rest of us find this amusing, and indulge them.
posted by Fat Buddha at 12:43 PM on December 09, 2003
No, I'd rather do it on Uranus. But I'm sure we can come to an agreement.
posted by rocketman at 12:48 PM on December 09, 2003
FB: You gobby git. Still sore from the ass-reaming that Blackburn gave you, wot!
posted by worldcup2002 at 12:50 PM on December 09, 2003
rocketman: Let's just shake hands. And welcome to the planet of AssReamo.
posted by worldcup2002 at 01:08 PM on December 09, 2003
Agreed. How do we determine the time?
posted by rocketman at 01:15 PM on December 09, 2003
Huh? time? btw, SpoFi been bery bery goo'to meh.
posted by worldcup2002 at 01:17 PM on December 09, 2003
SportsFilter: Welcome to our home on the planet of AssReamo!
posted by billsaysthis at 01:22 PM on December 09, 2003
Spofi: we ream ass!
posted by Fat Buddha at 01:27 PM on December 09, 2003
berry has two r's.
posted by lilnemo at 01:29 PM on December 09, 2003
Thats two ARRRRS, matey!
posted by StarFucker at 02:03 PM on December 09, 2003
FB, I think we have your spellchecker. Ho Ho Ho!
posted by worldcup2002 at 02:04 PM on December 09, 2003
And Fooker, I'm raising a pint to ya, with the hook on my right stump, and a wink of my one good eye. Yo ho ho and a barrel of rum!
posted by worldcup2002 at 02:06 PM on December 09, 2003
We've been attacked by soccer pirates! ScurvyGirl
posted by jerseygirl at 02:15 PM on December 09, 2003
I'm in love with a scurvy girl. Brwaack! Polly want a cracker?
posted by Fat Buddha at 02:23 PM on December 09, 2003
Back on topic. rocketman, what sports are you interested in learning about? Or are you only looking to expand your baseball horizons? If so grum and jerseygirl's links should suffice.
posted by lilnemo at 04:43 PM on December 09, 2003
Yeah, I'm pretty much a baseball guy for now. Although I've always been intrigued by boxing.
posted by rocketman at 09:17 PM on December 09, 2003
I find baseball easier to understand than say, American football. Keep asking questions and we'll try to help you out :)
posted by jerseygirl at 11:32 PM on December 09, 2003
Awesome! jerseygirl said "american football"!!
posted by StarFucker at 02:06 AM on December 10, 2003
I just can't stand the American football fans. Baseball fans seem generally knowledgable about rules, players, teams, and history. Football fans, in my experience, talk total shit for six days a week, then complain the seventh on why bad officiating made their team lose.
posted by rocketman at 08:27 AM on December 10, 2003
Football fans, in my experience, talk total shit for six days a week, then complain the seventh on why bad officiating made their team lose. rocketman: see, you know more about sports than you give yourself credit for!!
posted by smithers at 10:43 AM on December 10, 2003
a wise man once said, true knowledge is knowing what one doesn't.
posted by garfield at 11:19 AM on December 10, 2003
rocketman, your profile is a roller-coaster ride. I laughed, I cried. And in the end, I learned the True Meaning of Christmas. Thank you.
posted by Samsonov14 at 11:51 AM on December 10, 2003
However, Donald Rumsfeld, another wise man, also said:
"... there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. "We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. "But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know."Amen.
posted by worldcup2002 at 11:52 AM on December 10, 2003
Let me see if I've got this straight, rocketman: 1. You get (in your words) your ass reamed for expressing "vaguely-formed opinions," then... 2. You write a locker room thread beginning with "I admit I know very little about sports," then... 3. You write that you "can't stand the American football fans" because they aren't as "knowledgable about rules, players, teams, and history." Annoy baseball fans? Check. Annoy football fans? Check. Who's next on your list? And scratch what I wrote earlier about this being a friendly place, dammit.
posted by dusted at 12:03 PM on December 10, 2003
Ooh, make fun of the Swedes next! They're neutral and eat fish.
posted by Samsonov14 at 12:11 PM on December 10, 2003
I want to ask Rummy if there are unknown knowns? Things we know, but don't know we know. Ya know?
posted by garfield at 12:22 PM on December 10, 2003
Piss off the spelunking fans. Wait, do we have spelunking fans? Better annoy them now, to be on the safe side. Leave no stone unturned! :)
posted by jerseygirl at 12:33 PM on December 10, 2003
i also enjoyed rocketman's profile. plus he has a cool name.
posted by jerseygirl at 12:34 PM on December 10, 2003
j-girl: Piss off the spelunking fans. I don't know if we should be using that kind of language here. Spelunking, I mean.
posted by worldcup2002 at 12:46 PM on December 10, 2003
Annoy baseball fans? Check. Annoy football fans? Check. I never said I was easy to get along with. Being a lifelong also-ran has made me somewhat disagreeable. The comment about American football fans just comes from my experience of working with mostly NFL fans. All week long it's jibba-jabba about who's going to kick whose ass, except Monday, when they only complain about bad officiating the day before. And they tell me baseball is repetitive and boring.
posted by rocketman at 12:52 PM on December 10, 2003
Rocketman, with all due respect, baseball has those same fans. Every sport does. But to generalize the whole fan base is pretty stupid.
posted by jasonspaceman at 01:19 PM on December 10, 2003
0 for 2.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:24 PM on December 10, 2003
I never said I was easy to get along with. Being a lifelong also-ran has made me somewhat disagreeable. rocketman is just a stage name, you're really Woody Allen, right?
posted by dusted at 02:25 PM on December 10, 2003
with all due respect, baseball has those same fans. Every sport does I know each sport does. It was originally a joke - I've read the NYY-BoSox threads here, I know what baseball fans can be like. The part about working with loud-mouthed football fans is true, though.
posted by rocketman at 02:29 PM on December 10, 2003
dusted, are you suggesting I sleep with my daughter? Ewww. That's gross.
posted by rocketman at 02:30 PM on December 10, 2003
Rocketman, the NYY-BoSox threads here are a result of passionate fans, hardly ignorant 'fans' who know nothing of the sport but blame the umps.
posted by jasonspaceman at 03:42 PM on December 10, 2003
It's been suggested before that I'm too deadpan for my own good.
posted by rocketman at 03:46 PM on December 10, 2003
Rocketman, from your rollercoaster, just wondering: Published anything I have/could read?
posted by billsaysthis at 05:24 PM on December 10, 2003
I was going to write a spelunking joke, but I caved instead. Rocket, just type what you feel and watch what follows. We all disagree at one point or another. Hell, I think rcade's about the smartest guy in here, and he still doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to the Pudge deal.
posted by wfrazerjr at 05:38 PM on December 10, 2003
I was going to write a spelunking joke, too, but then I saw the light.
posted by worldcup2002 at 09:44 PM on December 10, 2003
billsaysthis: If you're interested, email me. What I've written is largely unpublished, save for one online column and my self-published senior thesis on clowns and manhood.
posted by rocketman at 09:34 AM on December 11, 2003
clowns are scary.
posted by jerseygirl at 10:14 AM on December 11, 2003
Shakes rocks ass!
posted by wfrazerjr at 10:22 AM on December 11, 2003
*shudder* but hahah Just Say Julie!
posted by jerseygirl at 11:00 AM on December 11, 2003
I still think she's hot, too. *rawr*
posted by wfrazerjr at 12:08 PM on December 11, 2003
but that voice is death.
posted by garfield at 12:27 PM on December 11, 2003
Garfield, I'm with ya on that. It's her teeth, no doubt!
posted by billsaysthis at 01:26 PM on December 11, 2003
Rocketman, you really did a thesis correlating manhood and clowns in some way? Did you watch Carnivale? Which oddly enough did not have any clowns that I noticed.
posted by billsaysthis at 01:27 PM on December 11, 2003
No. I didn't. It was a collection of short stories based around awkwardness and manhood. The cover art featured a clown. I did use certain elements of the clown tradition to develop some of the characters. What is Carnivale?
posted by rocketman at 02:18 PM on December 11, 2003
It's some an HBO series. Speaking of, when the christ does 'the Sopranos' start up?
posted by jerseygirl at 02:20 PM on December 11, 2003
Speaking of, when the christ does 'the Sopranos' start up? March 7th
posted by goddam at 02:48 PM on December 11, 2003
thanks!
posted by jerseygirl at 02:57 PM on December 11, 2003
and they'll be back for a 6th season in 2005.
posted by goddam at 03:05 PM on December 11, 2003
i hate the way HBO/Showtime do their seasons.
posted by jerseygirl at 03:16 PM on December 11, 2003
Speaking of the Sopranos...You know the lumberjack carpet guy during the opening credits? The owner of that store lives across the street from me, and just completed installing a rooftop b-ball court, overlooking Hoboken/NYC....without municipal zoning approval....I think he knows 'people.'
posted by garfield at 03:20 PM on December 11, 2003
they're called Muffler Men. that one is of the Bunyon variety.
posted by goddam at 03:55 PM on December 11, 2003
Yeah I wouldn't say anything. You don't want them to Ralphie you.
posted by jerseygirl at 03:58 PM on December 11, 2003
i hate the way HBO/Showtime do their seasons. Stay away from BBC America then.
posted by yerfatma at 04:10 PM on December 11, 2003
May I plead with you Yanks not to post Sopranos spoilers; we Brits don't get it till months after you lot. I found out about the killing of Ralph after some unprotected surfing. I was chuffin distraught. Imagine watching that episode and knowing what is coming.
posted by Fat Buddha at 04:19 PM on December 11, 2003
I did use certain elements of the clown tradition to develop some of the characters. Okay, this is already too academic for me. "The clown tradition"????
posted by billsaysthis at 06:17 PM on December 11, 2003
The clown tradition, meaning exaggerated comic characters. Shakespeare was king at writing them - read King Lear if you want the epitome of it. His "Fool" in that play is one of his best characters. When you play a character for comic effect, you can do it in a couple of ways. To tie this in to sports, look at Mike Tyson. The media has made a clown of Mike Tyson. There's often a joke going on that he's not in on, and he plays perfectly into it every time. No matter what happens, what he says, they trot him out because he *is* the punchline. All they have to do is turn on the camera. Of course, Shakespeare's Fool in King Lear isn't only in on the joke, he's often manipulating the joke at the expense of the other characters (which is why he's so excellent and so subversive). But typically, a "clown" is just a dupe, exaggerated in some way, either in personality or physiognomy.
posted by rocketman at 06:38 PM on December 11, 2003
See, clown tropes are prevalent throughout popular culture, going back hundreds of years, and they're still evident today. Stand-up comedians come from the clown tradition. Steve Urkel is a clown (the exaggerated costume [glasses and pants] gives it away). "Screech" from Saved by the Bell was a clown. Reality TV has its basis in the circus (an early form of "reality" entertainment) and the editors of these shows often edit them to create a clown character - the person who is the butt of the jokes, the comic relief. Many advertisements on TV involve clown skits - a person (usually designated as the "stupid" one through his/her appearance) comes to realize his/her mistake through a comic sequence of events. Even sporting news often employs a clown. Terry Bradshaw, anyone?? That guy has clown written all over him, from the ridiculous balding mullet to his clueless personality. When I used to watch football on Fox, he was the butt of all the jokes. It's probably an act, but it's a damn good one.
posted by rocketman at 06:52 PM on December 11, 2003
Interesting... So why do you think we have clown tropes? What primal element of the human psyche needs the clown character, the exaggerated goofy idiot type?
posted by hincandenza at 06:59 PM on December 11, 2003
It feels good to laugh. And I would posit that while we need to have a human element to identify with in order to create humor, we get uncomfortable when the joke lands too close to home. A clown is a great invention, because nobody thinks of themself as stupid. You create a character that's recognizably human, yet distanced from his humanity enough that we don't identify with him *too* much. That way, you can beat his ass for laughs all night long. I'll admit I don't know all the reasons why it works, but it does work.
posted by rocketman at 07:13 PM on December 11, 2003
I think we have clown tropes because there is an inherent meanness in us. Just look at how much of our humor makes fun of someone. We have to work much harder at being good. Isn't that funny? HA HA HA
posted by billsaysthis at 08:53 PM on December 11, 2003
Good thread, thanks.
posted by vito90 at 09:37 PM on December 11, 2003
You create a character that's recognizably human, yet distanced from his humanity enough that we don't identify with him *too* much. That way, you can beat his ass for laughs all night long. Wow, thanks, rocketman. That totally explains why I desire to beat these assclowns. 
posted by wfrazerjr at 06:28 PM on December 12, 2003
ugh. icp.
posted by jerseygirl at 11:40 PM on December 12, 2003
Well, I think the ass-reaming came about because of the way you stated your point, not necessarily because you stated a point that didn't agree with a vocal group. Don't take it personally, it happens to everyone on this site on occassion. I always like to see a new name added to the baseball debates as it can't do anything but spark more discussion (which is what makes this site so good). Learn about sports? Nothing but good old fashioned reading. For baseball, I recommend: Baseball Primer Baseball Reference (for the stats) Rob Neyer That might give you a sabremetric slant, and that might not be what you are looking for. I tend to read the stuff that gives me a deeper look at the game, so I try to avoid fluff pieces by writers like Richard Griffin. Good books include: Baseball Prospectus Bill James stuff Baseball Forecaster Most of the websites and books will also point you towards more information from other places. In the end, just reading what's written there (and here) can't help but enrich your understanding of the game. I can honestly say that I've had my position change on many issues (Barry Bonds, Pete Rose, financial disparity, anti-trust, stats as a tool) since I started reading more about baseball in the past 10 years.