11/21/24
January 29, 2008
Mets Get Santana: Pending a 24-48 hour window for ironing out a contract extension and completing a player physical, Johan Santana is headed to the Mets for four prospects - outfielder Carlos Gomez , pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra, and Kevin Mulvey.
posted by jerseygirl to baseball at 04:22 PM - 46 comments
Martinez, Santana, Maine, Perez and Pelfry I presume.
posted by jerseygirl at 04:50 PM on January 29, 2008
Couldn't be happier. If Santana wasn't going to sign with Boston, and was going to New York, this is exactly where I wanted to see him go.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:52 PM on January 29, 2008
I understand that this is the way of the world, but I wanted the Twins to keep him. I still find it depressing. I really looked forward to watching him pitch every turn through the rotation.
posted by chris2sy at 04:53 PM on January 29, 2008
So the pitching-rich Twins, who have done an outstanding job of developing pitchers but who need all the position-player help they can get, trade the top pitcher in baseball for three pitchers and one position player, and none of whom are top-level prospects? Seems pretty dumb to me.
posted by holden at 05:00 PM on January 29, 2008
They were looking for pitchers out of NYY and BOS too. They wanted Hughes or Chamberlain plus Cabrera out of NY and they wanted Lester or Buchholz plus Ellsbury out of BOS. Boston didn't want to give up Ellsbury or Buchholz. Instead offering Crisp, Lowry and Lester, or possibly Masterson instead of Lester.
posted by jerseygirl at 05:02 PM on January 29, 2008
From where I'm sitting, this isn't going to sit well with me for more than 10 years. In the near term, it's going to drive me nuts to see Santana mowing down the Brew Crew a couple of times a year. But I can't wait until he's in the HoF, and I can tell kids and grandkids "I saw him pitch." There will be Cy Youngs.
posted by rocketman at 05:03 PM on January 29, 2008
Martinez, Santana, Maine, Perez and Pelfry I presume. I believe that would be Santana, Martinez, Maine, Perez and Pelfry. As a lifelong Mets fan, I'm thrilled. They get Santana and keep F-Mart? This almost makes me forget that historic collapse last fall. A collapse caused by the weak and aging arms of their pitching staff. Go Omar!
posted by cjets at 05:05 PM on January 29, 2008
Yeah, I agree, just don't tell Pedro that, cjets.
posted by jerseygirl at 05:06 PM on January 29, 2008
Yeah, I agree, just don't tell Pedro that, cjets. I'm sure Omar will find a way to keep him happy. /fingers crossed
posted by cjets at 05:09 PM on January 29, 2008
As a Sox fan, White not Red, I'm glad to see Santana go. He's burned us for years, although I always liked the song 'Evil Ways'. Wait a minute, that's Carlos not Johan.
posted by Shotput at 05:12 PM on January 29, 2008
I'm actually very glad the trade went down like this. Santana is out of the A.L. and the Yankees didn't part with their young talent.
posted by dyams at 06:19 PM on January 29, 2008
Good stuff. Way to go Omar and crew.
posted by 86 at 06:34 PM on January 29, 2008
Smart of the Twins him out of the league. Dumb of the Twins to take the fourth best package on the table.
posted by samuelraphael at 06:35 PM on January 29, 2008
ˇVIVA LOS METS! Yes, the most incredible part is they did it without shipping Fernando Martinez. The pitching depth suffers-lets hope for no big injuries in the rotation next year, but it takes a load off old Pedro next season and will mitigate the gruesome memory of the epic collapse. Now where am I going to find 8 billion dollars for season tickets next year...
posted by lovejones at 06:38 PM on January 29, 2008
I understand that this is the way of the world, but I wanted the Twins to keep him. I still find it depressing. I really looked forward to watching him pitch every turn through the rotation. /Cries. I looked forward to watching him pitch every 5th day. I know the Twins have other good pitchers, but Johan is just a beast to behold. And with my other team being the Braves, this hurts on both fronts. Any good analysis of the trade out there? I don't know much about prospects, but the players the Twins got don't seem sparkling. And we need a new center fielder or outfielder in general.
posted by jmd82 at 09:41 PM on January 29, 2008
They still do have missing pieces, but I honestly believe he is enough for a pennant. They will win the NL East. Their only true obstacle is the Dodgers. The greatest (and probably impossible) obstacle to overcome for both is the Tigers. Think about it. Bad move for the Twins. Good move for the Mets, best moe for Santana, balls fly at the Dome, Citi Field is the opposite. It will probably help him put up bigger numbers. Oh well, let's see.
posted by SFValley_Dude at 09:42 PM on January 29, 2008
I had mixed feelings on Santana. Was the past year simply a blip on the radar or is he starting to show chinks in his armor? But now going to the national league, facing one less batter a game, I'm sure he's going to dominate.
posted by justgary at 10:00 PM on January 29, 2008
Their only true obstacle is the Dodgers. The greatest (and probably impossible) obstacle to overcome for both is the Tigers. Think about it. Please Dude, don't jinx'em. Assuming they will get in the playoffs is why the Mets ended up watching the playoffs instead of participating last year (that and the aforementioned aging arms). Philadelphia is the NL East Champion until a new one is crowned next fall. If the Mets display any of the hubris they did last fall, they will be home watching the playoffs again.
posted by cjets at 11:10 PM on January 29, 2008
Good call justgary. Santana's numbers did fade if I remember correctly as the season progressed. Maybe he will be like Ted Lily who switched leagues and had a good season with the cubs. Twins pitching depth isn't as rich with the number of injuries they had during last last season.
posted by whodat at 12:27 AM on January 30, 2008
I'm not gonna get all crazy about this trade considering that my Mets have just captured the best pitcher in the game today, bar none and put themselves in position to be the #1 team coming out of the NL East. There is still a little thing like a physical to be passed and then actually signing Santana to a long term deal to be done and until that is finalized, I'm not buying it.
posted by BornIcon at 06:25 AM on January 30, 2008
Bad move for the Twins. Good move for the Mets What would have been a better move for the Twins? ESPN opened SportsCenter discussing whether the Red Sox or Yankees were the real loser here, but I just don't see it. Santana should be fantastic in the NL for years to come, but I don't think he'd be worth an 8 year deal in the AL (which was everyone's estimate of what he would want), and both AL teams were offering a lot in terms of prospects.
posted by yerfatma at 06:46 AM on January 30, 2008
Anyone know much about the prospects that the Mets gave up? I know that the Twins wanted the Yanks and Sox to sell their Farm Systems' souls to get Santana, but I don't know much about the Mets farm, so I have no idea whether this is a good deal or not.
posted by Chargdres at 08:32 AM on January 30, 2008
As a Mets fan, to me the best thing about this deal is that they now can abandon thoughts of Kyle Lohse and Livan Hernandez. The lineup still strikes me as a bit thin, especially at the corner outfield spots, the bench and the bullpen, if everyone's not healthy.
posted by ajaffe at 08:36 AM on January 30, 2008
Anyone know much about the prospects that the Mets gave up? In exchange for Santana, the Mets are giving up four players: outfielder Carlos Gómez and pitchers Philip Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey. Each is considered a solid prospect but none are judged to be outright can’t-miss players and are Nos. 2, 3, 4 and 7 prospects, according to Baseball America's rankings. The best part? The Mets didn't include top prospect, outfielder Fernando Martinez. This guy is gonna be a great player for us for years to come. Just you watch. The lineup still strikes me as a bit thin, especially at the corner outfield spots, the bench and the bullpen, if everyone's not healthy. The lineup is still very similar to what we had last year except instead for Tommy Glavine as our lefty, since he went back to the Braves so now we have Mr. Johan Santana to fortify the left-handed, ace spot. Los Mets barely gave anything up to the Twins which is surprising to me considering what they wanted from the Yanks and the Red Sox to part ways with Johan.
posted by BornIcon at 08:51 AM on January 30, 2008
posted by yerfatma at 08:53 AM on January 30, 2008
"Considering that the Mets managed to achieve this without giving up a single top-tier prospect, this is a happy day for Mets fans." Yes it is!!
posted by BornIcon at 09:06 AM on January 30, 2008
The Mets absolutely needed to do this, and the fact the Twins can't afford to offer Santana what it would ever take to lock him up long-term is too bad. Many teams in their situation have done fairly well by getting prospects in return, and hopefully some of these guys pan out for them in a big way. Santana finally getting dealt, to the NL, has to be a big relief for both Boston and the Yanks. It was funny how they were playing that one-up, call-your-bluff game all along when it was plainly obvious one of their biggest concerns was that the other team not get him, not necessarily that they, themselves, get him. The Yankees holding onto Hughes, along with having Kennedy and Chamberlain (and keeping Melky Cabrera, one of my personal favorites) doesn't make them losers by any means. It probably doesn't mean them winning a championship this season, but it keeps them in fairly decent shape going into the future (hopefully).
posted by dyams at 10:06 AM on January 30, 2008
There is still a little thing like a physical to be passed You say that like physicals rarely get passed...
posted by jerseygirl at 10:07 AM on January 30, 2008
Thanks, BornIcon. Sounds like you made out like bandits! Now if you can just manage to innoculate Santana from whatever bug was going around in Queens the last month of the season!
posted by Chargdres at 10:19 AM on January 30, 2008
You say that like physicals rarely get passed... I say that like the physical hasn't even been done yet. As soon as he takes a physical and passes it, then and only then will I celebrate like it's 1986 all over again. M-E-T-S....eh, I'm sure you know the rest...
posted by BornIcon at 10:19 AM on January 30, 2008
it was plainly obvious one of their biggest concerns was that the other team not get him, not necessarily that they, themselves, get him I was never clear on the Sox' goal. It seemed like they just wanted to up the price the Yankees had to pay. There seemed to be a general agreement among media/ fans Theo would be unlikely to sign Santana for the contract numbers that were being bandied about.
posted by yerfatma at 10:30 AM on January 30, 2008
From the viewpoint of Red Sox fandom, this is the "best case" scenario. The Yankees don't get Santana, he is no longer even in the American League, and Boston gets to keep all of its young talent. While most understand that adding Santana to the Red Sox rotation, even at the cost of a Lester or Buchholz, would have put an incredible staff into Fenway, the team is still pretty solid without him. Santana at his proven level of performance could become dominant in the National League. The Mets have to be favored now to win the NL East, and at the very least to make it into the post-season. Many think that the deal is not the best that the Twins could have made, but that will not be determined for a season or two, at a minimum.
posted by Howard_T at 10:31 AM on January 30, 2008
Now if you can just manage to innoculate Santana from whatever bug was going around in Queens the last month of the season! Now why you wanna go there? Don't try and take the wind out of our sails. That was low, pretty funny and true, but low dammit!!
posted by BornIcon at 10:34 AM on January 30, 2008
It seemed like they just wanted to up the price the Yankees had to pay. True, and I believe it worked. It would have wound up potentially costing the Yankees (yes, even them) too much.
posted by dyams at 10:35 AM on January 30, 2008
I'm still a little shocked at what the Twins accepted from the Mets. I thought they had better deals on the table from the Yanks and the Sawx, but they went with what Buster Olney said was the fourth best deal out there at the time. I didn't think the Twins were that hard up for pitching prospects, so I'm wondering, did they just want him out of the A.L. so bad that they took a lesser offer?
posted by The_Black_Hand at 10:52 AM on January 30, 2008
Hello.... It's the METS we're talking about here.... No matter what they're always going to be the Other NY Team.
posted by dchrist669 at 03:42 PM on January 30, 2008
Yeah yeah, we get it. You love the Yankees. Anything else in your commenting repertoire aside from blasting the Mets and New England teams?
posted by jerseygirl at 03:47 PM on January 30, 2008
George Vecsey's assessment of the trade (and the Mets in general).
posted by cjets at 03:55 PM on January 30, 2008
I don't know what to say to that Vescey piece. It's like he went to his editor and said, "I had a good time writing about what chokers the Mets were last year. Ok if I do it again?" "Santana for the departed Tom Glavine. That upgrade does not necessarily make them a better — or more mature — team for all 162 games this season." Good stuff. Glavine had an ERA+ of 96 last year in the NL. Santana had an "off-year" 130 in the AL. And he's 13 years younger.
posted by yerfatma at 04:16 PM on January 30, 2008
I don't know what to say to that Vescey piece. It's like he went to his editor and said, "I had a good time writing about what chokers the Mets were last year. Ok if I do it again?" Yup. I was actually going to title the link "George Vecsey's predictably dour reaction to the trade." The Mets do need to be reminded about last year. On the other hand, reading Vecsey is like listening to your cranky granddad tell you that you're doomed to failure, no matter what you do.
posted by cjets at 04:35 PM on January 30, 2008
Tom Glavine is one of the main reasons the Mets blew the division with their horrible streak at the end of the year. The guy was absolutely throwing glorified batting practice by that time. It got to the point I was actually worried for his safety out there, as well as that of his fielders. Santana could throw righthanded and have more upside at this point in his career than Glavine.
posted by dyams at 07:01 PM on January 30, 2008
Tom Glavine is one of the main reasons the Mets blew the division with their horrible streak at the end of the year. Agreed. When they needed him most, in the last game of the season, he gave up seven runs in the first inning.
posted by cjets at 09:15 PM on January 30, 2008
The Mets do need to be reminded about last year And what? You think that they forgot already? Any team that loses the way my Mets lost, just like when the Yanks blew a 3 game series lead to the Red Sox a few years ago to lose 4-3, remember that dchrist669, will have that in the back of their minds. The thing is, this is a whole new year, with whole new players and the season hasn't even started.
posted by BornIcon at 09:24 AM on January 31, 2008
They're my Mets, too BI. I can remember watching them clinch the division in '73 and I flew home to go to game 7 of the world series in '86 (My dad, lucky SOB, was at Game 6 as well). And until they make the playoffs again, I'm going to remember the giant choke job from last year. 7 games up with 17 remaining. It was a historic tank job that people will remember 50 years from now, the way people talk about the 1964 Phillies now. So while I'm very excited about trading for Santana, the Mets need to understand that if they assume that they'll be in the post season because they got Santana, they'll end up where they were last year.
posted by cjets at 05:38 PM on January 31, 2008
Good deal for the Mets - if it goes through. I thought the other packages that were offered were better. But it is so hard to gauge prospects. Good to see some of the East Coast pub go to the Mets instead of the NYY/BOS. OK Mets. Now do it. You're an old team with only a year or two to win it. No Excuses.
posted by Hartsy at 09:41 PM on January 31, 2008
Interesting. What will the Mets rotation look like next year?