11/21/24
April 12, 2007
Hidden: All Charges Dropped in Duke Case: North Carolina’s attorney general declared three former Duke University lacrosse players accused of sexually assaulting a stripper innocent of all charges on Wednesday, ending a prosecution that provoked bitter debate over race, class and the tactics of the Durham County district attorney.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
posted by bperk at 06:30 PM on April 12, 2007
Finally. Nifong, try another occupation, because you really messed this up huge! Hey, guess what, if the DNA tests come back not matching any of the alleged perpetrators....IT'S NOT THEM!!! There are alot of apologies owed, especially to the coach and the lacrosse team. Thanks for the post BI.
posted by bavarianmotorworker at 07:58 PM on April 12, 2007
What's this world coming to when you can't trust a stripper?
posted by dyams at 08:27 PM on April 12, 2007
But, but, but Al Sharpton said they were guilty. Doesn't that make it true?
posted by jamesw1633 at 09:40 PM on April 12, 2007
It is unfortunate that these young men, along with all of their teammates got punished for something that NEVER happened. I am glad that their names have been cleared. Where is Rev. (haha,what a joke) Al Sharpton now? Is he going to help fight the Duke players cause of injustice? Is he going to issue an apology? No, he only cares when the cameras are on. What a hypocrite. How about for once saying he was wr,wr,wr,wrong. It will never happen.
posted by urall cloolis at 10:40 PM on April 12, 2007
I'll merely add what i said in another thread. For starters, the Duke thread is should have been sitting in between the Michael Vick "vindication" thread for NOT being in possession of weed, and the thread about the Vikings players on the boat, who basically did the same thing the Duke players did (hire women to come do things at a party that they shouldn't have been doing.) Again notice there is a call for vindication concerning some kids who basically pulled a pacman jones by having a party with a few under age kids, beer, undoubtedly drugs, and strippers. But because they were falsely accused of rape note how the previous is being totally ignored and there is a call for a Spofi thread to proclaim them innocent. Innocent of rape? Obviously. Innocent of what NFL and NBA players get a verbal thrashing for here at Spofi twice a month? No chance. Where is Rev. (haha,what a joke) Al Sharpton now? Is he going to help fight the Duke players cause of injustice? Sure he will, just as much as you fought for the entire black race when Susan Smith and Charles Stuart pulled their stunts. But, but, but Al Sharpton said they were guilty. Doesn't that make it true? Good point. As good as Susan Smith and Charles Stuart saying Black men did it, that sure as hell made it true. Smith's case gained worldwide attention shortly after it developed, because Smith initially reported to police, on October 25, 1994, that she had been carjacked by an African-American man who drove away with her sons still in the car. Smith made tearful pleas on television for the rescue and return of her children. However, nine days later, following an intensive, heavily publicized investigation and nationwide search, Smith eventually confessed to letting her 1990 Mazda Protegé roll into nearby John D. Long Lake,drowning her children inside. Many people across the United States and around the world, to whom she and her two "missing" sons had been the subject of an outpouring of sympathy, felt strongly betrayed. Their reaction to the betrayal was further aggravated by the fact that she had attempted to cast blame, falsely, upon an African-American man, making the case racially sensitive and bringing back memories of a recent Roxbury, Massachusetts case involving Charles Stuart, who had shot his wife to death in their vehicle and concealed his guilt by making a false police report that a black man had done it, inflaming racial tensions in the metropolitan Boston area for sometime afterward. Let's see, what's worse? Falsely accusing a select few young men of rape, or killing your own children or wife and accusing an entire race of men?
posted by Bishop at 01:36 AM on April 13, 2007
I'm sorry, I missed the post where people defended Susan Smith. What's your point, it's okay for rich white kids to get falsely accused because it's happened to black kids in the past? I'm sorry, I tend to think it's not okay for anyone to get falsely accused and I would do anything in my power to make sure it didn't happen to anyone. If you want to argue that this could shed light on other ugly areas of the law, go for it. But you're current train of thought is actually making me feel sorry for you.
posted by SummersEve at 04:14 AM on April 13, 2007
Again notice there is a call for vindication concerning some kids who basically pulled a Pacman Jones... Hey Bishop, grow up man~ I'm sorry but these kids were the victim here whether you agree or not and they deserve an apology from a lot of people and Al Sharpton happens to be one of them. It doesn't matter what they were doing for this to have transpired, THEY WERE FALSELY ACCUSED!! What kills me is that people always want to bring up race as an issue but the main person that's alway bringing up race as a factor is probably the same one that has an inkling of racism in their soul (Not speaking for anyone in particular, but that's usually the truth). We all don't know one another on a personal level but we all get to read one another's opinion and what each other has to say on a regular and I respect the people that have things to say but there comes a point and time where enough is enough. Regardless whether these kids were white, black, latino or asian, they're dignity was taken away from them for something that they had nothing to do with and they were not only the victims of some Chicken Little, loser stripper that made these false allegations but they also had a goal-driven District Attorney that may very well be disbarred because he brought this case to the forefront in order to look good so he can just get reinstated (do I need to repeat that part again....whew!!). People look at these kids and say, "Oh, they're Duke kids, they'll be ok" but the fact of the matter is just because these are 3 white, lacrosse playing, Duke attending kids, doesn't mean that they come from money or that they deserved this. They were getting death threats at their homes for this and for the outcome to be that the case was dismissed doesn't make everything all better for them or their families. We all need to look at this case with open eyes and an open heart and realize that we can all be victims in today's society not just from the color of our skin, but also when someone has an agenda and doesn't feel like they have anything to lose. This is not a race issue but more of a humanity issue and understand that there is a difference. A fine line was crossed where someone blamed someone else over something that never actually happened in order to benefit financially and these people's lives were threatened and their privacy & education was taken away from them over nothing.
posted by BornIcon at 05:48 AM on April 13, 2007
What kills me is that people always want to bring up race as an issue but the main person that's alway bringing up race as a factor is probably the same one that has an inkling of racism in their soul (Not speaking for anyone in particular, but that's usually the truth). No, not really. You are making broad judgments when the whole point of this Duke lacrosse mess is that those kind of judgments are a bad idea.
posted by bperk at 06:52 AM on April 13, 2007
What judgments? These kids didn't deserve what happened to them and for anyone to say, "Well, maybe if they weren't (insert comment here), none of this wouldn't have happened." No one knows what's in another person's heart or mind nor can they say with definate assurance that this wouldn't have happened to them. These kids had a party where strippers were called to perform......AND? Where's the point that they did anything wrong? I've been to plenty of strip clubs in my life and have been to parties where strippers were in attendance, does that make me guilty of anything or makes me a bad person? Or for that matter, that they deserved to have their names dragged thru the mud? The "whole Duke lacrosse mess" had nothing to do with it being either bad judgment or a bad idea, it had everything to do with someone that tried to be an opportunist and make false claims against these 3 innocent, young men and the truth came out in the end.
posted by BornIcon at 07:11 AM on April 13, 2007
Sure he will, just as much as you fought for the entire black race when Susan Smith and Charles Stuart pulled their stunts. Bishop is at it again. He has to turn every post into his own personal agenda. You know nothing about me, so how do you know how I reacted in the Susan Smith or Charles Stuart cases? I was outraged in those cases you mentioned, just as I was with this one, in fact more outraged than in this case. But you would never take the time to ask me about them, you just try to stick your own words in my mouth. But since you brought it up, as heinous as Susan Smiths actions were (killing your own kids is a ticket to hell express, you get to go right to the front of the line), she did not say it was any person in particular, nor was anyone arrested falsely and branded for life. Where were you and how exactly did YOU fight for the entire black race when those cases took place? (You see I am asking a question, not putting words in your mouth.) I could care less if the accuser is white, black or any other color. What pisses me off is someone that accuses someone with full knowledge that the person the are accusing are innocent. That is where we differ. It sounds like you only fight for your own race, whereas I do not tolerate injustice against anyone, regardless of race.
posted by urall cloolis at 07:13 AM on April 13, 2007
Again notice there is a call for vindication concerning some kids who basically pulled a pacman jones by having a party with a few under age kids, beer, undoubtedly drugs, and strippers. But because they were falsely accused of rape note how the previous is being totally ignored and there is a call for a Spofi thread to proclaim them innocent. Innocent of rape? Obviously. Innocent of what NFL and NBA players get a verbal thrashing for here at Spofi twice a month? No chance. Bishop, I applaud your passion and your efforts to raise awareness about racism -- truly, I do. But you need to become a better writer. It's your use of the passive voice, dude. It creates ambiguities and makes your statements appear to be a lot more broad-brush than you probably intend them to be. Look at your opening statement: "Again notice that there is a call for vindication..." Your use of the passive voice makes it unclear just who (in your opinion) is doing the calling. From the rest of your paragraph I infer, perhaps incorrectly, that you're speaking of "SportsFilter", that Internet cabal of lockstep opinion. But your wording makes it ambiguous. Your arguments will become stronger and more coherent if you start using the active voice and identify who you're talking about -- and it would help, as well, if you didn't fall back on referring to groups such as "SportsFilter" that do not, of course, have a unified opinion. Of course, in this case, if you'd said who was calling for vindication on the rape charges while at the same time excusing the players' "pull[ing] a pacman jones" with their party behavior, that might bring to light the strong possibility that the Duke lacrosse players are not off the hook. They're not facing criminal rape charges any more, but I'd be very surprised if they weren't getting a serious albeit non-public smackdown from the university administration over the party. Lastly, you let yourself be baited once again by some exceptionally boorish comments in this thread. We all get baited now and again, but Bishop, as a member of an oppressed group you know perfectly well that you have too many battles to fight every one. You're a smart guy, so start acting smart, and choose your battles. Respond to stupid remarks, but not like a bull charging a red cape. Write better, and knock the bastards out.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:27 AM on April 13, 2007
Bishop is at it again. He has to turn every post into his own personal agenda. This is breaking my irony meter, given how Debo270 and BornIcon hijacked the Imus thread to bellyache about the initial posting of the Duke lacrosse thread getting deleted.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:31 AM on April 13, 2007
What judgments? The broad judgement I was talking about was your judgement "that people always want to bring up race as an issue but the main person that's alway bringing up race as a factor is probably the same one that has an inkling of racism in their soul." I'm quite sure that it has no basis in any real fact since you have no idea what is in someone else's soul. The Duke Lacrosse case was full of judgements, including that prosecutors are honest and trying to get to the truth, a group of guys would stonewall to prevent the truth from coming out, not to mention all the rich vs. poor, men vs. woman, black vs. white stereotypes that were apart of the news account and the stories that Nifong was spinning.
posted by bperk at 07:39 AM on April 13, 2007
And now we, like the duke players have been set free.
posted by Debo270 at 07:43 AM on April 13, 2007
This is breaking my irony meter, given how Debo270 and BornIcon hijacked the Imus thread to bellyache about the initial posting of the Duke lacrosse thread getting deleted. Firstly, I didn't 'hijack' anything, I simply responded to a question about why the Duke lacrosse story haven't been posted knowing that I tried to post it. IMO, what you need to do is stop trying to act all high & mighty like you're Ms. Im-Always-Right. No one 'bellyached' about anything, I felt that some of us were adult enough to have a discussion about this story but all I see is certain individuals that feel the need to attack one another over the simplist thing. Whatever happened to having conversations or civil debates?
posted by BornIcon at 07:58 AM on April 13, 2007
Come on, BI, you mentioned it in several different threads instead of taking it to the locker room where it belongs.
posted by bperk at 08:06 AM on April 13, 2007
Whatever happened to having conversations or civil debates? It probably ended about the time someone called someone else "Ms. Im-Always-Right". You don't like the word "hijacked"? Okay. But your complaints (since you don't like "bellyache") properly belonged in the Locker Room, not in the middle of a thread on a completely unrelated subject. Will you at least acknowledge that?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:11 AM on April 13, 2007
Come on, BI, you mentioned it in several different threads instead of taking it to the locker room where it belongs Several places? I mentioned it in two places after two people brought it up and only once did I bring it up myself and that's only because we were talking about Drew Bledsoe retiring when this is way more of an important story. Will you at least acknowledge that? Sure I will but again, I was simply responding to someone's question. Maybe I was wrong in that estimate but I neither 'hijacked' or 'bellyached' the thread. Will you at least acknowledge that?
posted by BornIcon at 08:19 AM on April 13, 2007
I have noticed that many debates here recently have been lacking in the being civil aspect. I just wanted this posted to see what everyone who wanted to hang the Duke players 13 months ago had to say now that the story is turned around. So many things recently have become issues of the white man doing terrible things to the black man that we need to apologize for and I wanted to see what was thought by this group since this story has gone the other way. The responses were close to what I expected. I am happy for these players or anyone else(of any race) that has been wrongly accused(by someone from any race) and then found innocent. Being wrongly accused is bad but for rape, that can ruin your life for a long time. This isn't about Susan Smith(sorry bishop) or them being found innocent because they were "rich white boys" It is about the truth coming out. The Truth That woman lie(there is a shocker) and a DA used the case for his own reelection bid to get the minority vote in a mostly african american community. He probably did the most wrong out of anyone here, not the team for having a college party. I will bet every man(and most women) over the age of 25 have been at a party with a stripper or seen one and probably had a drink or two before there 21st birthday. If you are in the minority there then I am sorry for my made up statistics. We are not evil and wrong and neither was this team. AND BI AND I HIJACKED NOTHING
posted by Debo270 at 08:25 AM on April 13, 2007
l-b-b has said what I have been thinking, only she has said it far more eloquently. I would like to add a couple of things about Bishop's comment. First of all, the Duke lacrosse players were in a private home with no one else in attendance except the strippers. The Minnesota Vikings excesses happened on a party boat. Those who objected were people who had been hired to cater on the cruise. They were offended by the behavior, and they made their objections public. Both are examples of immature, boorish behavior, but in the Minnesota case, the behavior was public to the extent that it involved outsiders. The second thing is that both Susan Smith and Charles Stuart paid for their respective errors. Stuart tried a high dive off the Tobin Bridge, and suffered the usual fate.
posted by Howard_T at 08:26 AM on April 13, 2007
So many things recently have become issues of the white man doing terrible things to the black man that we need to apologize for and I wanted to see what was thought by this group since this story has gone the other way. I must have missed these issues because I remember a thead where a particular white man had to apologize, but I am pretty sure "the white man," as a collective, hasn't had to apologize for anything. And, I'm equally sure that black women or black people, as a collective, don't need to apologize for anything in this case.
posted by bperk at 08:41 AM on April 13, 2007
What about the one that made all this up?? She doesn't owe anyone an apology?
posted by Debo270 at 08:43 AM on April 13, 2007
What about the one that made all this up?? She doesn't owe anyone an apology? From what I have read and heard, she is a disturbed young woman who may have a problem distinguishing reality from fantasy. According to some reports, while she changed her story several times, she seemed to honestly believe each version. Give her a pass, but don't condone the same behavior when it is done out of malice or for potential profit.
posted by Howard_T at 08:54 AM on April 13, 2007
As a person who works with people with emotional and mental problems, I guess I can give her a pass Howard. Like I said above the person that did the most wrong here was the DA who used a case centered around race to win the votes of an african american community for re-election.
posted by Debo270 at 08:58 AM on April 13, 2007
Give her a pass I can't believe that you actually wrote that. Give her a pass? Com'on now, this "disturbed young woman who may have a problem distinguishing reality from fantasy" ruined not only the 3 Duke players but also the families of those college students with her hateful accusation. The only pass she should get is taken right pass jail and directly in a psych ward. ...the person that did the most wrong here was the DA... That's true but to a certain event. This wouldn't have ever happened if she never lied~
posted by BornIcon at 09:07 AM on April 13, 2007
BI, Depends on the mental issue. I work with students with emotinal issues and a few weeks ago had a studnet mad at me over an event that never actually happened. While is can be entertaining at times, This person fully believed the events they had made up in their head and it took a while to get them over it.
posted by Debo270 at 09:11 AM on April 13, 2007
Ok but was your life and good name ruined over that? The moment it does, I'm sure that you won't care if the person had mental issues or not, you'll want to be cleared of those false allegations regardless and justice to be served. I don't want to come across as cold-hearted but I just know me and I'll do everything in my powers to make sure the truth is revealed~
posted by BornIcon at 09:16 AM on April 13, 2007
And they were cleared. Whats your point
posted by Debo270 at 09:17 AM on April 13, 2007
My point is that in 20 years from now, someone can look up anyone of those 3 Duke student/athletes and they'll be a story of rape alongside their name. Would you want to be linked to that? I know I wouldn't. They may be cleared of all charges but that still doesn't take back all of the pain, heartache and threats to their lives that these people had to deal with. I'm not saying that suing the girl, the state of Carolina, Duke University or the ex-DA that was handling the case is going to make everything all better but just "giving her a pass" as if nothing happened is not the answer. She should have to pay for her actions as well since she accused these young men of something so malicious as rape.
posted by BornIcon at 09:26 AM on April 13, 2007
I am sure there will be some consequences and a law suit to follow but nothing she did is realy going to be persued in a legal way by the cops
posted by Debo270 at 09:28 AM on April 13, 2007
I am sure all the Duke boys high powered attorneys already have a list of everyone to sue
posted by Debo270 at 09:47 AM on April 13, 2007
Wow just like the Kobe Bryent case. Some woman tring to frame some popular rich athelete(S) and destroy their image. the only difference is that the woman called off the charges against Kobe. but both cases they did DNA tests and they BOTH turned out NEGATIVE! BOTH TIMES!!! but they still had to drag the whol friken case out cuz everbody wants a good story. and in my oppinion both those woman shuld be inprisioned for ohhhh i dont know maybe 50-yrs cuz thats what they deserve trying to do that to ppl.
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 09:50 AM on April 13, 2007
GODDAM AM I WIKED HAPPY WE GOT THIS HERE THREAD AFTER ALL JUSTICE IS SERVERED MOTHAFUCKAS!!!111! LOL Go back to where ever you came from and never darken our door again.
posted by yerfatma at 10:11 AM on April 13, 2007
Some woman tring to frame some popular rich athelete(S) and destroy their image Just because they're white and attended Duke doesn't make them rich. it pisses me off that this black girl can just go and name these white boys in such a hanus crime and knowing that it is all false and get away with it, why arent they pressing charges on her? is it because she is BLACK? yes absolutely. This doesn't even deserve a response. Comical~ BTW, it's spelled heinous
posted by BornIcon at 10:12 AM on April 13, 2007
You asked for the thread, so sit back and enjoy the mess instead of complaining about table manners at a hog trough.
posted by yerfatma at 10:22 AM on April 13, 2007
Boys will be Boys but I'm glad their innocent but something happened that night and those boys will have to live with it the rest of their lives Good Luck! And that state's attorney should be sued that apology means Zip Zero Nada
posted by luther70 at 10:38 AM on April 13, 2007
were you there luther?? Please do tell. What happened??
posted by Debo270 at 10:40 AM on April 13, 2007
I can't believe it took this long for the charges to be dropped. In the early stages of the investigation after the girl had already changed her story twice and Nilfong set up the ID'ing by only showing her pictures of lacrosse players, therby guaranteeing that whoever she ID'd would BE one of the players, that was the time to start seriously questioning this guy's motives. As for the assertion that because they're white and go to Duke, they'll be fine and wealthy, etc. Total fucking bullshit. Surely some of them are, but that doesn't excuse putting them what they went through. And they should absolutely sue Nilfong, I would say to sue her too but I doubt she has the ability to pay out any damages. They should sue her and settle for an apology.
posted by vito90 at 11:24 AM on April 13, 2007
I warned you this would happen!
posted by grum@work at 11:24 AM on April 13, 2007
Grum, you are wise beyond your years. I knew it would happen too but it is fun to watch.
posted by Debo270 at 11:27 AM on April 13, 2007
I knew it would happen too but it is fun to watch. Thanks. Remind me to drop by your house and shit myself.
posted by yerfatma at 12:17 PM on April 13, 2007
That too would be fun to watch.
posted by Debo270 at 12:23 PM on April 13, 2007
This thread would suck if it wasn't strategically punctuated with fatty goodness. On the whole justice/injustice thing: I got nothing. Fuck it. Let's go get some tacos.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:53 PM on April 13, 2007
But you need to become a better writer. LBB, while I appreciate constructive criticism, I really do not think it's a secret of who I am referring to when I write. As far as the use of the passive voice, it has to be that way. The minute I fully expose some bigoted thinking and address the culprit(s) directly, I am either told that they are trolling noobs, why acknowledge them, or 3 more narrow minded individuals chime in on their behalf and I end up having to address each one separately. So I end up painting with my moderately broad brush because the following comment made by an esteemed member of Spofi is true: Are American attitudes toward this disappointingly unfair and disinterested? Yes. Does Sportsfilter reflect that? Probably so. Let me know when the windmills start to fall over. posted by yerfatma at 1:23 PM CDT on April 10 Note the use of the broad brush? So pointing out racism as nothing new with a broad brush is ok, but charging at it like a bull with a broad brush is not? I have written the other way only to have some of my comments removed immediately. THEY WERE FALSELY ACCUSED!! What kills me is that people always want to bring up race as an issue but the main person that's alway bringing up race as a factor is probably the same one that has an inkling of racism in their soul (Not speaking for anyone in particular, but that's usually the truth). They were getting death threats at their homes for this and for the outcome to be that the case was dismissed doesn't make everything all better for them or their families. We all need to look at this case with open eyes and an open heart and realize that we can all be victims in today's society not just from the color of our skin, but also when someone has an agenda and doesn't feel like they have anything to lose. This is not a race issue but more of a humanity issue and understand that there is a difference whether you agree or not and they deserve an apology from a lot of people and Al Sharpton happens to be one of them As far as O.J. is concerned, he may have been found not guilty in the eyes of the court of law but his actions speaks differently. -BornIcon So let me get this straight. The Duke players are NOT guilty because they were accused by a "loser stripper". O.J was found Not guilty in a court of law but his actions speak differently? And you have the nerve to say race don't play a part in it? You have got be kidding me. Take your own advice and grow the hell up. According to you the Duke players are innocent because of the evidence presented and nothing more. OJ was found not guilty because of the evidence presented but that doesn't matter. This is hypocritical. The Duke players will get their apology when OJ gets his. I am happy for these players or anyone else(of any race) that has been wrongly accused(by someone from any race) and then found innocent. Being wrongly accused is bad but for rape, that can ruin your life for a long time. posted by Debo270 at 8:25 AM CDT on April 13 I'm curious to hear you say the same thing in reference to OJ Simpson. Again what's worse, rape or murder? I knew it would happen too but it is fun to watch. Ridiculous cincinnati's record last year 9-8-1 9 arrests 8 dismissals 1 conviction posted by Debo270 at 9:59 AM CDT on April 5 Duke players get charges dismissed and it's praise the Lord time. Some Bengal's players get charges dismissed and it's unjust. The line between guilty and not guilty seems to fade when an athlete is involved posted by Debo270 at 11:32 AM CDT on April 5 I guess that only applies to Black athletes.
posted by Bishop at 12:53 PM on April 13, 2007
Credit the link and wording to BornIcon who posted this earlier but it was deleted. An end to a long running national (and sportsfilter) story.