11/21/24
November 19, 2006
The Road to Canton Does Not Pass Through Denver: The Denver Broncos have been to six Super Bowls but have only one Hall of Fame member in quarterback John Elway, as Broncos great Floyd Little laments. Other franchises outside the hall are the Falcons, Jaguars, Panthers and Ravens (zero members) and the Bengals, Buccaneers, Saints and Seahawks (one each).
I don't really know much about Floyd Little's career or how impressive his statistics are in light of the era in which he played (they don't appear to be too impressive to me by modern standards). I will say that I don't think that Terrell Davis belongs in the HoF. While he did have a very impressive peak, his career was cut short by injuries and durability and longevity are, rightly, a large part of the HoF calculus. As to the lack of other players from other teams, note that several are among the newest teams and the rest are historically bad franchises. In the case of the Broncos, team success is simply not a good measure of individual success.
posted by holden at 12:04 PM on November 19, 2006
Wow, I thought Tommy Nobis was in...
posted by ajaffe at 12:29 PM on November 19, 2006
Floyd was a heckuva player and was the only bright spot on some truly horrid teams, but a much better case for HOF enshrinement can be made for Randy Gradishar whose average of 204 tackles per season over 10 years as an inside linebacker in one of the earliest 3-4 defenses still completely boggles the mind. Other retired Broncos who merit serious consideration, in my opinion, include Dennis Smith, Steve Atwater (two of the hardest hitting safeties ever), Karl "The Albino Rhino" Mecklenberg, Lyle Alzado, and when he hangs 'em up, Rod Smith.
posted by mjkredliner at 12:30 PM on November 19, 2006
Randy Gradishar seems good enough to me, and he'd be a representative of the '70s Broncos team. Seven Pro Bowls and a Defensive Player of the Year award. Looking at the no-member teams, I think the player most likely to end that status are Ray Lewis (Ravens), Jimmy Smith (Jaguars) and Steve Smith (Panthers). I don't see any Falcons player who's a strong contender for the hall. Jessie Tuggle?
posted by rcade at 12:42 PM on November 19, 2006
The Broncos are about to have 2 people in the hall of fame. John Elway and soon to be Rod Smith. Also, rcade said "I don't see any Falcons player who's a strong contender for the hall." I do see someone, Mike Vick.
posted by a24kurtz02 at 03:30 PM on November 19, 2006
This point is a little more convoluted than one thinks initially, because players choose who their "team" was upon their retirement. Marcus Allen (if he isn't in the hall yet he will be) will go in as a chief, although he played the majority of his career and put up his eye-popping numbers for the chiefs hated rivals the LA/Oakland Raiders. To me this diminishes the force of this injustice somewhat.
posted by brainofdtrain at 03:43 PM on November 19, 2006
Vick's an exciting player, but it's way too early to suggest him as a Hall of Fame contender. He's been to three Pro Bowls, but he has below-average passing numbers and has never reached a Super Bowl.
posted by rcade at 03:47 PM on November 19, 2006
I don't think Vick will end up in the HoF. He's exciting to watch, but he just doesn't put up the numbers. I also doubt Jimmy Smith will make it. He's put up good numbers and is a solid WR, but solid doesn't make it into the HoF.
posted by cabuki at 04:34 PM on November 19, 2006
rcade: If you're going to pick on Vick (and you should) it is for his numbers, particularly his subpar throwing accuracy. Not appearing in a Super Bowl should be roughly meaningless in a game as team-oriented as football (though I admit it of course makes a difference to the voters.) Oh, also- Jimmy Smith? Seriously? If Art Monk, Andre Reed, and Michael Irvin can't get in, no way Smith gets in. (Smith admittedly has slightly better numbers than Irvin, but especially if you're going to count postseason and Super Bowl performances, Irvin was just a more dominant player than Smith ever was, despite getting a lot fewer passes thrown his way because of all the times the ball got handed off to Emmitt.) Brain: can you think of any players from these teams who have chosen otherwise, though? I can't think of any, though admittedly I'm not trying very hard ;)
posted by tieguy at 04:40 PM on November 19, 2006
Oh, also- Jimmy Smith? Seriously? If Art Monk, Andre Reed, and Michael Irvin can't get in, no way Smith gets in. Had to agree, and point out, once again, my personal favorite Andre Reed. There's quite a few receivers currently with some excellent statistics, and along with the ones mentioned above, you also have to consider Isaac Bruce prior to the Smiths (Jimmy or Rod). I like both of them, but I'm not sure they'll make it in. As for Vick, if there's a Hall of Hype, he'd be inducted already.
posted by dyams at 05:16 PM on November 19, 2006
Anti-Bronco bias? Please. It is the Professional Football Hall of Fame. How many pure CFLers are there in it? Huh? Now that is a bias.
posted by apoch at 06:12 PM on November 19, 2006
Don't use Irvin against Jimmy Smith, because Irvin should be in the hall. The Reed and Monk comparisons hurt. Maybe I'm overrating Jimmy, but he put up the best numbers in the league post-Rice for several years. If not Smith, the Jags' best shot is Tony Boselli in 2008.
posted by rcade at 06:31 PM on November 19, 2006
Not appearing in a Super Bowl should be roughly meaningless in a game as team-oriented as football (though I admit it of course makes a difference to the voters.) Leading a team to a Super Bowl should count for something, especially for quarterbacks.
posted by rcade at 06:33 PM on November 19, 2006
Vick is a maybe at this point; he needs to put together a few complete seasons in a row without being hurt for six weeks, and even though some will hate it, superbowls do matter.
posted by brainofdtrain at 08:45 PM on November 19, 2006
Leading a team to a Super Bowl should count for something, especially for quarterbacks. Not necesarily. Trent Dilfer lead the Ravens to a Super Bowl and there is no way he will be elected to the Hall of Fame.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:46 PM on November 19, 2006
Amen, YYM, amen.
posted by tieguy at 08:52 PM on November 19, 2006
Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, et al are why Superbowls should count for something, but not everything. Winning a ring isn't a guaranteed key to Canton, but it still matters.
posted by apoch at 08:55 PM on November 19, 2006
Thinking like that is what got us Joe Namath in the hall of fame. :)
posted by tieguy at 10:11 PM on November 19, 2006
Oh, and speaking of hall of fame players from historically mediocre teams: LT: better than Emmitt, but not quite as good as Barry. Discuss.
posted by tieguy at 10:13 PM on November 19, 2006
Trent Dilfer lead the Ravens to a Super Bowl and there is no way he will be elected to the Hall of Fame. He has nothing else going for him, in terms of the Hall of Fame. If two players are close to being admitted to the hall, and one played on a Super Bowl champ while the other never got close, I'd pick the one with the ring.
posted by rcade at 12:03 AM on November 20, 2006
The Hall of Fame is for accomplishments over and entire career not just one or two sensational seasons. The book is out on Micheal Vick but I don't see him making it. While he is undoubtedly an exciting player to watch his ability as a quarterback to lead his team to playoff success is very much in doubt. As for Terell Davis I agree I don't think he should make it. While he had several outstanding years his career does not warrant the Hall of Fame. Are there players out there that are deserving but not yet in? Of course there are and there always will be. But the standards are and should be set high or it would diminish the privledge of making the Hall of Fame.
posted by patrickm at 04:11 AM on November 20, 2006
LT: better than Emmitt, but not quite as good as Barry. Discuss. Apples and oranges. How can you distinquish between the three of them? Other than the obvious Super Bowl championships Emmitt was a part of, they were (are) three of the best to ever play, and LT has a few years left. Seeing how LT's playing right now, he doesn't take a back-seat to anyone. He's an absolute scoring machine.
posted by dyams at 05:45 AM on November 20, 2006
The thing with Vick is that, super bowl or not, he's not going to be close. He's either going to get his game together in the next year or two, and be known as the most physically gifted player to ever play the position, or he's going to continue to squander (arguably, to have squandered) his talents, and be known as the biggest waste of physical gifts the league has ever seen. If he is the first, he gets into the Hall no problem; if the second, obviously not close.
posted by tieguy at 07:04 AM on November 20, 2006
Vick needs to become a consistent passer before he gets older and begins losing a step or two in his running abilities. I realize his speed is light-years ahead of other quarterbacks, but with age comes added susceptibility to injury (just ask McNabb). Everyone keeps assuming a couple good throwing games means the guy's turned the corner and will tear up the league. It just isn't happening, and he's had more-than-ample time to develop that part of his game. And before all the "Who's he got to throw to" arguments start, I've seen him rocket many a ball over guys he should hit easily.
posted by dyams at 07:33 AM on November 20, 2006
Sanders has only six more career touchdowns than Tomlinson even though he played for around four more seasons. Obviously Sanders has more yards, but Tomlinson has plenty of time to accumulate many more of those. Therefore, I agree with dyams, LT isn't topped by anybody.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 09:54 AM on November 20, 2006
please Michael vick not even top 5 of TODAYS QBs..supremely overrated.. Gradeshar deserves the hall as does Monk, Thurman thomas the rest Irvin, Reed, Smith etc. close but no cigar remember its the Hall of Fame not the hall of very good
posted by vtb602 at 04:03 PM on November 20, 2006
hey guys dont forget about the texans or for that matter, the new cleveland browns if your counting them a new franchise. im pretty sure they dont have anyone in either
posted by kdrisck at 04:57 PM on November 20, 2006
the rest Irvin, Reed, Smith etc. close but no cigar remember its the Hall of Fame not the hall of very good Andre Reed is 5th all-time in the NFL in receptions; 6th all-time in receiving yards; and 10th all-time in receiving touchdowns. That's Hall of Fame, not Hall of Very Good.
posted by dyams at 06:31 PM on November 20, 2006
I think Sportsfilter should have a Hall of Mediocre for those who aren't big on punctuation.
posted by tieguy at 09:08 PM on November 20, 2006
I think Sportsfilter should have a Hall of Mediocre for those who aren't big on punctuation. Luther70 will finally have somewhere to belong!
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 09:46 AM on November 21, 2006
Luther70 will finally have somewhere to belong! I FedEx'd him a new period button for his keyboard. Understand, though, there's no guarantee he'll use the thing.
posted by dyams at 11:17 AM on November 21, 2006
I just looked through all the comments on his profile page and found two question marks and two exclimation points. No periods. Now excuse me while my brain melts and seeps out of my head.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 05:10 PM on November 21, 2006
Wait until he reads these comments. Boy will that be one long, run-on, possibly never-ending attack(!?)
posted by dyams at 06:30 PM on November 21, 2006
It will probably shut down the internet.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:04 PM on November 21, 2006
Wow. I didn't realize that so many teams didn't have a single player in. With some of the newer teams, it's not that much of a surprise. It'll come. All the one hit wonders that are on the list are amazing to me though.