June 27, 2006

Greatest of all time?: Ronaldo scored his 15th World Cup goal on Tuesday to become the tournament's all-time scoring leader. Does this declare him the best ever?

posted by redsoxrgay to soccer at 11:24 AM - 35 comments

Wow, what an awesome post. Wow, what an awesome post.

posted by yerfatma at 11:38 AM on June 27

Greatest of all time? Nah. I think to even be considered for that moniker, you need to always be dangerous, always be creating. Like Pele, Garrincha, Eusebio, Maradona, etc. Ronaldo has had his moments of brilliance of the years, but he's almost as frequently been completely useless.

posted by psmealey at 12:23 PM on June 27

Remember that Mueller scored 14 goals in 14 games. Ronaldo has 15 in 19.

posted by scharnhorst at 12:38 PM on June 27

Ronaldo is probably the greatest finisher of all time. Certainly the best I have seen in over thirty years of following footie.

posted by walrus at 01:00 PM on June 27

By the way I've got a tenner on him scoring five or more this cup with a mate at work, which I wagered after the first match. Think my money's safe.

posted by walrus at 01:08 PM on June 27

i wonder why he posted it twice i wonder why he posted it twice

posted by ptluigi at 01:12 PM on June 27

Oh, and this.

posted by walrus at 01:14 PM on June 27

ronaldo seems to be the beneficiary of playing in front of an incredible midfielders over the years and is a great finisher, but not best of all time. the frenchman, fontaine, scored 12 goals in one tourney, very impressive, mueller called him the greatest in his book in an interview after the bra-gha match. its tough to call one greatest in the world, speacially him, who still does not look totally fit.

posted by sauceysays at 01:35 PM on June 27

Just Fontaine was a little before even my time, but I think it's absolutely fair to say that the game was nowhere near the level that it is now. At that time teams were playing with only two fullbacks in defence, in the 2-3-5 formation ... the catenaccio defence caught on in Italy in the late fifties and early sixties, which saw a vast change in the way football was played. Since that time defence has been the order of the day and goals have been a little harder to come by.

posted by walrus at 01:39 PM on June 27

walrus makes a good point. Instinctively I think of players with greater flair who are the best of all time, but considering that he was clearly not right in the last world cup and he is a fat bastard in this one, he has to be the best, most natural, most lethal finisher there is or has been. He's certainly better than his mate, Adriano, the berk.

posted by Fat Buddha at 01:49 PM on June 27

More on your man at MetaFilter.

posted by yerfatma at 02:44 PM on June 27

I once posted a sport related thing on Mefi................never again. I still bear the scars.

posted by Fat Buddha at 03:24 PM on June 27

walrus, is he really the best finisher? I certainly don't have anywhere close to your pool of experience, but from I can tell Ronaldo finishes maybe half the glorious chances he gets. And by glorious, I mean he misses alot of glorious chances. Even two games ago when he had two goals, he should've had four or five considering the ball service he was getting. A flubbed header, and shanked re-direct. I don't know, maybe I expect too much, but I'd want him to even do better with the chances he gets.

posted by garfield at 03:27 PM on June 27

Sorry about the 2X post :)

posted by redsoxrgay at 03:57 PM on June 27

More on your man at MetaFilter. Go to a soccer thread on a non-sports site, and they're still bashing Jeter. I got no freakin' refuge, man. No freakin' refuge at all.

posted by BullpenPro at 04:01 PM on June 27

The Mefites know the basics, at least.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 04:17 PM on June 27

Ronaldo is definitely the LARGEST of all times, not the best. A big stomach, frail health, low motivation, together with too much money and adulation, have seen him benched by Inter of Milan and Real Madrid for lack of performance. Once every four years he comes back from RAD -retirement on active duty- and, thanks to stellar midfielders and threequarter fielders such as Kaka and Ronaldinho he scores 20 percent of what a Serginho -or the Italian Pippo Inzaghi for that matter- could if allowed to play instead of warming up the bench. This beached whale is stealing the opportunity for glory and fame of younger and more talented players.

posted by Bruninho at 04:23 PM on June 27

"From I can tell Ronaldo finishes maybe half the glorious chances he gets. And by glorious, I mean he misses alot of glorious chances." It depends how long you base it on. Ronaldo had two three-month periods out this season and had not trained for forty five days before the cup, so it's as if he's in pre-season at the moment, after a longer than usual summer. He is definitely still lacking a lot of sharpness over the player he has been for the last three years, let alone the player he was before that. Even so he's gaining momentum, and you may see half of his best before the end of the final. Over the course of his career he has scored 219 league goals in 276 games (1:1.3), 34 European goals in 68 games (1:2) and 15 World Cup goals in 18 games (1:1.2). Let alone countless goals in domestic cups, world cup qualifying and confederation cups. Those are absolutely, fantastically, amazingly incredible stats and if anyone can find a living footballer with better ratios I'll be so surprised that I won't be able to think of a suitable epithet. His honours include the following: 1997 Golden boot (Inter Milan) 2002 Golden boot (Real Madrid) 2002 World Cup winner (BRESIL) 2002 World Cup Golden Boot (BRESIL) 1997 Copa America winner (BRESIL) 1999 Copa America winner (BRESIL) 2002 Intercontinental Cup winner (Real Madrid) 1997 Cup Winners Cup winner (FC Barcelone) 1998 UEFA Cup winner (Inter Milan) 2003 Primera League Champions (Real Madrid) 1995 Dutch League top scorer (PSV Eindhoven) 1997 Primera Division top scorer (FC Barcelone) 2004 Primera Division top scorer (Real Madrid) 1996 Dutch Cup winner (PSV Eindhoven) 1997 League Cup winner (FC Barcelone) 2000 Italian Cup Finals (Inter Milan) For me, his soft shoe shot is nonpareiled in all the history of film or television. I've never seen anything like his best placed shots from anyone else. He can shoot from anywhere within twenty yards with either foot, is a great header of the ball, and over the course of his career he has found the net with unerring accuracy. I don't know what his shot to goals ratio is, but this cup is the worst I've seen him play and he's still a big danger for the golden boot. I firmly believe that if his career had not been so blighted by injury he would have outscored Pele by now in all competitions. That's not to say he's the footballer Pele was. But as a finisher I doubt there's ever been better. I could go on, but you probably get the picture. If anyone is in any doubt of how highly I rate this man, as a Liverpool fan I just have to say that he is a better natural finisher than God ;-)

posted by walrus at 04:26 PM on June 27

Slightly related, I was very pleased to see that bald French geezer score again today. Where does Zidane rank in the grand scheme of things? Up there with Pele and Maradona, or on the second tier with Platini and Cruyff?

posted by afx237vi at 04:39 PM on June 27

Oh, I posted the Mefi link for the included links. It never occured to me to look at the discussion. I'm with Fat Buddha on that.

posted by yerfatma at 04:50 PM on June 27

Greatest of all time? No. One of the greatest? Yes.

posted by v3rity at 05:07 PM on June 27

I'd put Zidane in the same sentence as Platini (he's actually a similar player in many ways) having seen both play. Cruijff and Maradona were different class again and incredible to see live. And Pele is the best player I've ever seen, albeit only on TV and only in the latter years of his career. My all time favourite, of course, is Kenneth Mathieson Dalglish.

posted by walrus at 05:10 PM on June 27

I think it's a non-starter to say Ronaldo is the greatest footballer of all time by the way, or even top ten. But I still think he's probably the greatest finisher ever. There's a subtle distinction.

posted by walrus at 05:13 PM on June 27

Just Fontaine was a little before even my time, Is Fontaine the French player from the past in those fun Adidas "Jose + 10" commercials? I don't recognize all of them, but I'm learning...

posted by grum@work at 08:00 PM on June 27

Especially Derek "Look at me totally misjudge the ball and still get a blow job from the announcers!" Jeter. BullpenPro: "More on your man at MetaFilter. Go to a soccer thread on a non-sports site, and they're still bashing Jeter. I got no freakin' refuge, man. No freakin' refuge at all." I hear ya. People will always be hating on the YANKEES, their organization, players, etc..(even on a soccer thread, sadly) Why must people hate the best?

posted by STUNNER at 08:09 PM on June 27

The French star of old in the Jose +10 commercials is Michel Platini. And no fair saying Fontaines performance was a product of the times...The next closest scorers (Pele was one of them) had 6 goals in the '58 Cup to Fontaines 13. And from gleaning some stats off wikipedia, Pele scored 1189 goals in 1376 league matches (1 goal every 1.15 matches) and 77 goals in 92 national team appearances (1 goal every 1.19 matches). Ronaldo has 205 goals in 262 league matches (1 every 1.27 matches) and 62 goals in 95 national team appearances (1 every 1.53 matches). So while these stats are comparable, Ronaldo has nowhere near the number of games under his belt at that level.

posted by Ricardo at 08:58 PM on June 27

Why must people hate the best? Usually, because of certain fans.

posted by justgary at 09:27 PM on June 27

ronaldo should't even be mentioned in the same sentance as pele and marradonna. Im not so sure he is even in the top ten. is he better than George Best? is he better than franz bechembauer (Sorry for spelling) plus even in todays game many guys have a good case against him when there carreers get to the same stage as his is now like ronaldhino and henry and mabey even wayne rooney

posted by bronxbomber at 09:55 PM on June 27

Does this declare him the best ever Short answer: No Long answer: Noooooooooooooooooooo

posted by owlhouse at 11:32 PM on June 27

I know they don't belong in the same breath either bronx, which was my point. I'd say Ronaldo has impressive stats except it's never been sustained for any length of time. Pele played top notch football for 21 years. It's too bad he never plied his trade in Europe somewhere.

posted by Ricardo at 12:48 AM on June 28

"Ronaldo has 205 goals in 262 league matches (1 every 1.27 matches)" Those figures are a year out of date, the current figures are 219 league goals in 276 games (1:1.3).

posted by walrus at 01:54 AM on June 28

"is he better than George Best? is he better than franz bechembauer (Sorry for spelling)" Never seen them play, but from looking at grainy videos, no he isn't. He is, however, a better finisher than either.

posted by walrus at 02:15 AM on June 28

Yeah, but could Pele eat an apple through a tennis racket? Did Beckenbauer ever forget to shave large chunks of his head before a game?

posted by JJ at 05:01 AM on June 28

That 'merkin' haircut was copied by about 90 per cent of the Portuguese peacekeepers in East Timor in 2002. Even stupider when seen en masse.

posted by owlhouse at 05:21 AM on June 28

Pele played club ball in Brazil, you can't compare that to today's top Eurpean clubs, but also consider how many more games he had to play a year. As for Just, he might have scored 13 goals to Pele's 6 in '58 but who won the tournament? The thing about this Brazil team that's scary is they're just rounding into form, ghana outplayed them and still lost 3-0. Zidane better be ready Saturday.

posted by billsaysthis at 12:48 AM on June 29

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