11/05/24
April 03, 2006
Webb's eagle on 72nd hole sets up playoff win: In one of the most dramatic final few holes I've witnessed in quite some time, Karrie Webb's eagle from 116 yards out on 18, followed by Michelle Wie's questionable strategy minutes later on the same hole, propels Webb to a major victory.
I honestly don't watch a great deal of the LPGA, not because I don't like it, but because there's often other things on at the same time. On Sunday, however, I tuned in mainly because Wie was in contention. The play was fantastic, though, and I was totally impressed. Almost as great as Webb's shot at 18 was Ochoa needing an eagle, and getting it, on that same hole (to get her into the playoff). It's too bad Gulbis couldn't make it into the playoff, too, because she was making some really key putts late. While I'm not in a position to ever question any pro, Michelle Wie included, I'm still shocked she decided to chip on 18 instead of putting from the fringe. Maybe she thought she could make the shot with the wedge and win, but I thought she'd try to just get close in an effort to tie Webb. It's good to see Webb back on top, though.
posted by dyams at 11:35 AM on April 03, 2006
Interesting to read that Wie played such an important part in (and nearly won) the major some people thought she shouldn't have been invited to. (Just for the record - Samsonov14's comment near the middle of that lot got me laughing out loud again).
posted by JJ at 12:11 PM on April 03, 2006
Terrific finish, of course I was rooting for my hommie Ochoa, I'am curious to know what Wie would have done had she won the tournament. I mean she's not old enough to turn pro, right? I heard she could petition the LPGA and turn pro. That's a lot of money she could have won.
posted by livedawhile at 01:48 PM on April 03, 2006
I'am curious to know what Wie would have done had she won the tournament. I mean she's not old enough to turn pro, right? livedawhile, Wie is a professional now, as of her 16th birthday. This was her first major as a pro, and the fact that she finished 3rd (in, I'll say it again, her first major as a professional), and that that's news at least as much as Karrie Webb winning the thing, tells me that maybe that exemption that caused such a shitstorm in the last thread could not have been better spent. (I like Creamer and Pressel too, but remind me, where did they finish?) That said, Ochoa won me over this weekend (I knew she was good, but she kept battling even as the field caught her, and no one handled the pressure better), and Webb was full value for the win.
posted by chicobangs at 02:19 PM on April 03, 2006
Ah, that was a fun thread ... and with this profound bit of wisdom regarding Ms. Wie from our own JJ: "how does one go about learning to win if not by losing?" Deep stuff there. Did you see any of the golf, JJ?
posted by Amateur at 02:36 PM on April 03, 2006
I'd like to reiterate all the good things everyone has said about Wie, I remember a few weeks ago when the Rolex came out, everyone acted as if it was a total spoof that she was included! Michelle Wie is the real deal, and shes going to prove it now.
posted by everett at 02:39 PM on April 03, 2006
I didn't see any of it sadly, Amateur. I don't have Sky TV. I'll get to see the Masters this week though (it's on BBC). I read about the ladies from a few different sources. I sometimes like reading about golf better than I like watching it. Or maybe I'm just trying to make myself feel better about not having Sky. What I read makes me think I missed a cracker! I agree with you, Chico that for Wie 3rd in her first major as a pro is incredible - even more so given her age - but brace yourself for some knucklehead to point out that Tiger won his.
posted by JJ at 05:16 PM on April 03, 2006
but brace yourself for some knucklehead to point out that Tiger won his. I think you just did! /grin
posted by Folkways at 07:35 PM on April 03, 2006
I have vigorously defended Wie, both in the thread JJ referenced and as recently as Mar 30th At 16, she has more pure talent than anyone on the LPGA tour. This was indeed a great finish, and it showed that the women do have game. As the link above points out, there is an abundance of young talent on the ladies circuit... Some one who calls a 15 year old girl a failure when she does not make the cut at a PGA tour event knows not that there is triumph in just having enough game to be invited at that age, male or female.
posted by mjkredliner at 08:23 AM on April 04, 2006
Michelle Wie gets invited to PGA events because she is a novelty, not because she is a great golfer. That her skills are superlative has no merit on it's own until you add the phrase "for her age" - not with respect to her PGA tour appearances. And while I may get thrown under the bus for addressing JJ's profound statement re: learning to win by losing, I believe a great champion would say that one really learns to win by winning- which is something Michelle Wie has never done. Ever. At any level. And yes, she definitely contended to the end this past weekend. But like the Phil Mickelson of old, she faded away when it mattered most because she doesn't have the head of a champion just yet. So was I exaggerating for calling her a bust the other day and do I deserve to be called out for it? Sure. But to suggest I get out on the course and be humbled for my statements is far more idiotic than anything I said. After all, that would make every non-professional athlete who questions anything and everything done by a pro to be a fool. Except for you of course.
posted by MW12 at 11:19 AM on April 04, 2006
Hey chico thanks for the info on Wie being a pro. I misunderstood the announcers thinking she had to be 18 to turn pro. I learned she has to be 18 to join the LPGA tour, she isn't a member of any pro tour yet. I hate when I have to research stuff!
posted by livedawhile at 12:09 PM on April 04, 2006
MW12, your comments of Mar30th were so out of-line as to be called asinine. I suggested you play a round of golf so you could perhaps realize what a difficult game it is and to imagine what a 14 or 15 year old girl would feel like matched up against the best players in the world on a course groomed to tour standards, with the world's media covering your every shot. And you laugh each time she fails? MW12, by your standards, 99.9 percent of all professional golfers are failures. I stand by my remarks.
posted by mjkredliner at 12:29 PM on April 04, 2006
Ah yes- now I understand. The continued name calling clarifies everything. Ease up, Stud. Your mother still thinks you are special. Me, on the other hand, I have tremendous respect for all professionals who conduct themselves with dignity. Unfortunately, however, whether on her own or with the assistance of her family Michelle Wie has chosen to grandstand for sake of sponsorship rather than focus on winning. And I happen to think that is sad to the point of being laughable. As for those circumstances you refer to - the course conditions, the match ups, the media coverage - unless I'm mistaken that's what it means to be a professional, and just one more reason why the overwhelming majority of pro golfers that have been asked to comment on Michelle Wie have suggested she learn to win on the amateur circuit first, the the ladies circuit after that, before bringing her game to the PGA. And thems the facts. But please, feel free to correct me once again with your tremendous wit, O'Doyle. You do still rule.
posted by MW12 at 01:09 PM on April 04, 2006
Wie is plenty good enough to compete on the women's circuit now. You realize that most pro golfers don't win pro tournaments because there are many more golfers than there are tournaments to be won. Wie has been in the mix enough in the LPGA tournaments to be worthy. Further, I can't think why dabbling in the PGA could hurt her game or why that would be considered grandstanding. If you have the opportunity to learn from the best, you would be crazy not to take it.
posted by bperk at 01:30 PM on April 04, 2006
Michelle Wie was the 2003 U.S. Womens Public Link Champion, youngest to ever win at age 13. She HAS won at the amateur level.She shot even par in her first foray onto the men's tour, missing the cut by two shots at age 14, the youngest ever, male or female, to play in a PGA Tour event. She finished in the top 10 in 5 of her first 9 starts in womens Major tournaments before the age of 16, AS AN AMATEUR. She was just a kid with an exceptional game, not a tour hardened pro MW12. I think she has handled herself with class and dignity, (despite the unfortunate antics of her father), and to label her a bust or a failure is, to repeat myself, imbicilic.
posted by mjkredliner at 02:25 PM on April 04, 2006
So MW12, tied for third in her first major isn't good enough to merit her staying on the tour? There are tons of players (way more than half, I'd bet) on the LPGA tour who've never sniffed a leaderboard at a major, let alone win on the amateur circuit (as, and this has been pointed out a few times already in response to you, Michelle Wie has already done, repeatedly). Should we just cull all that deadweight out of the herd? It would sure shorten the tee times if every tournament was just an extended skins game, eh? Tied for third. In her first major as a pro. I'd say she's earned her right to be on the tour. (Notice I didn't mention her age even once.)
posted by chicobangs at 01:25 AM on April 05, 2006
Never said the girl wasn't talented, nor was there any implication that she didn't belong on the women's tour. People like to twist each others words on this message board to satisfy their own self-serving interests - but you won't find a single quote from me implicating that she doesn't belong in the LPGA. I only expressed my displeasure with the continued spectacle that she's made of herself trying to do too much too soon (like playing on the men's tour) before she's ever won anything on the women's. Look- all I'm saying is that all this talk of her being the first person, male or female, to accomplish x, y, and z is a not so subtle way of comparing her to Tiger. And I'm sorry, but I'm not buying into that philosophy just yet. A top five finish is fantastic, no doubt, and is even more impressive when factoring in her age I concede, but that doesn't make her a winner. Winners are people who know now to finish - and while I'm sure that she will learn to do so in the future, it doesn't take anything away from her current skill set to point out that she hasn't learned that yet. And ps- a single match play victory at one recognized amateur tourney does not make her the multiple amateur champion that people are now suggesting she is.
posted by MW12 at 10:12 AM on April 05, 2006
Against my better judgment, I was about to wade in and defend her amateur career, but upon searching "Michelle Wie amatuer career stats" on Google and seeing the fifth result entitled "SportsFilter | All comments by JJ", I thought perhaps I'd shut up.
posted by JJ at 11:34 AM on April 05, 2006
Definitely not, JJ. Now, you are not only the resident SpoFI golf expert, you are officially an expert on Wie for the whole world! Congratulations.
posted by bperk at 12:24 PM on April 05, 2006
I searched her amateur career stats as well, knowing fully I might prove myself wrong - realizing that would only add fuel to the fire of childish name callers like O'Doyle (please God tell me everyone gets the reference) - but all I found was the one match play tourney, and references to the many pro events she entered as an amateur, at times thanks to a special exemption, all of which only serves to enhance my position that the girl is trying to do too much too soon - that there are numerous amateur tourneys that she skipped over in her quest to make a name for herself, and that despite the valuable experience she must have gained playing alongside the best - a decision I can understand why she wouldn't pass up (thank you Bperk) - she nonetheless has a very thin amateur resume and no track record to support claims that she's a proven winner, which I have to believe works against her now as she comes close but can't close out a tourney, and has to fall back on her belief that FATE was the reason she missed a chip shot from 25 feet - a questionable decision considering she was already ON THE GREEN.
posted by MW12 at 12:51 PM on April 05, 2006
Her amateur stats are not that great because since the age of 14 she has been competing AGAINST THE PROS !!! Yes, she got a special exemption to some of the tournaments, but she has more than proven that she can compete. If you knew anything about golf at all, you would know that many of the game's greatest players coughed up leads in majors before they actually "learned" to win. Jack Nicklaus at the '60 Open as an amateur. Tom Watson at the Open and the Masters. Nick Faldo at The British Open. Nick Price, Greg Norman, the list is very long ! The O'Doyle reference is really quite lame. And, I have not "called you a name", rather, I have pointed out the obvious error in your labeling Michelle Wie a "failure" and a "bust" on Mar.30th. Hope you had a good laugh at her latest "failure".
posted by mjkredliner at 03:10 PM on April 05, 2006
O'Doyle, you're a funny guy. Are you on the Michelle Wie payroll? You'd make a great publicist. You can't argue with any of the things I say, because they are both factual and undeniably reasonable - so instead you take the dual approach of manipulating my words and upping the ante to the point that this child is all of a sudden in the company of the greatest golfers of all time. So thank you for proving my point- again and again and again. And btw, while you continue to dig deeper, I already conceded that I had exaggerated my point when calling her a "bust." And if you go back and reread my former posts, not one time do I call her a "failure." That's just your inflection- or neuroses- or bruised ego (pick any one). But keep caddying - one day perhaps she'll call.
posted by MW12 at 04:14 PM on April 05, 2006
You can't argue with any of the things I say, because they are both factual and undeniably reasonable [THIS SITE IS CLOSED TO NEW COMMENTS] For a guy so worried about people getting a reference, you seem to have overlooked the ball-washing gag.
posted by yerfatma at 04:19 PM on April 05, 2006
MW12, who the fuck is O'Doyle? If you're making up names for people, then fucking stop. We all have names. They're at the bottom of our posts. If you're doing it to piss someone off, you've done it. Congratulations. Now fucking stop. It's condescending, patronizing and insulting, any of which will get you banned from this place right quick. You got it?
posted by chicobangs at 03:04 AM on April 06, 2006
I say, it's all getting a bit fiesty in here, wot wot? For what it's worth (which is fuck all, but I'll say it anyway) I don't go along with the notion that Wie should have stayed as an amateur for longer and "learnt to win" on the amateur circuit. The best bit of advice I ever got in golf was as I stood on the brink and couldn't decide if I should turn pro of have one more year as an amateur. The advice came from David Higgins, who himself turned pro at what a lot of people thought a strange moment (he was walking onto the Walker Cup team at the end of the year, but turned pro anyway). He said "You can win all you like on the amateur circuit and then stand up in your first ever pro event and realise it's a whole new game and all your amateur wins are worth precisely nothing. You'd be far better off spending a few years missing cuts anywhere in the world they will let you into a tournament. The difference between playing for money as a pro and playing for titles as an amateur is phenomenal." I agreed. I turned pro. And he was right - the fact that I never won anything worth talking about as an amateur had absolutely no bearing on how bad a pro I was. Wait - did I just defeat my own point?
posted by JJ at 04:51 AM on April 06, 2006
This was quite possibly the most exciting finishing holes of golf I've ever seen, not only was that shot incredible , the 3 players who followed Wie, Gulbis, and Ochoa hit some amazing shots down the stretch. I was on the edge of my seat.