11/21/24
November 22, 2005
Marlin owner may relocate team if they unable to get a stadium deal..: This could be the flip side of the potential "fire sale" of top players.
Flip side?
posted by yerfatma at 03:12 PM on November 22, 2005
Flip side--appears that the Marlins are unloading high priced players-trying to to gather in some top prospects. This goes hand in hand with trying to get a stadium/relocate the team.
posted by daddisamm at 03:40 PM on November 22, 2005
It does? I thought previous teams trying to get stadiums built or move added high-priced talent to make themselves more attractive.
posted by yerfatma at 03:47 PM on November 22, 2005
Putting Montreal aside for the minute, and bearing in mind that Las Vegas is the fronrunner along with the usual suspects: Monterey, Mexico; Portland; Northern Virginia; Carolina; San Juan, Sacramento; Puerto Rico. Which other cities are candidates for the Marlins? Also, do ou think they'll realy move or will they get a stadium?
posted by Joe88 at 04:17 PM on November 22, 2005
I wouldn't call it the flip side. Usually teams that unload big contracts are looking to sell. The Hawks cut salary before the then-Belkin Group took over. The Celtics offered Rodney Rogers a low-ball offer to keep their salary down and move the teams sale along. Although, the Grizzlies sent 'Reef packing for a draft pick (Pau Gasol) once they hit Memphis so they could get out from under his contract, but I doubt they used the savings towards building their arena.
posted by lilnemo at 04:38 PM on November 22, 2005
I'm sure we can eliminate Northern Virginia from the mix. Angelos would have an aneurysm if MLB tried to stick a third team anywhere near Baltimore/DC. Everyone's talking Vegas, Portland, Puerto Rico. How about San Antonio? Any interest down there?
posted by sellout at 04:47 PM on November 22, 2005
No major sport will go near Vegas. Puerto Rico provides travel issues and a language barrier that might prevent free agent signings. How big are Portland and San Antonio (he asked, lazily)? The general rule of thumb is one major team per million residents. That's not a hard-and-fast rule, but it's a good rule of thumb for ballparking fan support.
posted by yerfatma at 05:12 PM on November 22, 2005
How big are Portland and San Antonio (he asked, lazily)? Portland about 225,000 and San Antonio about 1,200,000. I don't know about surrounding areas in Portland to get it to a million.
posted by skydivemom at 05:32 PM on November 22, 2005
Puerto Rico has as many language barriers to most players as any English-speaking city; they're just for different people. (By comparison, think about hockey players in Quebec. Language barrier? Well, for some, but the talent level among the locals and those who speak their language is high enough that it'll be alright.) The only problem I can see is that the stadium in San Juan only holds about 25,000, and it's the biggest thing in town already. Doubling it is going to be a massive undertaking. I don't know about Monterey. So the stadium deal situation is going to be the same there. I heard someone say that Vegas, being more of an event-driven place, could easily support an NFL team, but the day-to-day summer-heat grind of a baseball team wouldn't suit the pace of the city. Betting issues aside, of course.
posted by chicobangs at 08:13 PM on November 22, 2005
Puerto Rico has as many language barriers to most players as any English-speaking city; they're just for different people. (By comparison, think about hockey players in Quebec. Language barrier? Well, for some, but the talent level among the locals and those who speak their language is high enough that it'll be alright.) The only problem I can see is that the stadium in San Juan only holds about 25,000, and it's the biggest thing in town already. Doubling it is going to be a massive undertaking. I don't know about Monterey. So the stadium deal situation is going to be the same there. I heard someone say that Vegas, being more of an event-driven place, could easily support an NFL team, but the day-to-day summer-heat grind of a baseball team wouldn't suit the pace of the city. Betting issues aside, of course.
posted by chicobangs at 08:13 PM on November 22, 2005
This city was clearly a leveraging tool for MLB as they tried to get DC to sweeten the pot, and it worked to some degree. The sense here (Portland) is that they never were intending to really take us to the dance -- and given that we never established any realistic stadium funding, it's doubtful that we'd be serious contenders anytime soon. As for that NHL team in Portland, now there's something I could get excited about. Comcast owns the arena here...don't they need more hockey content? ;-)
posted by diastematic at 08:25 PM on November 22, 2005
One word: extortion.
posted by dusted at 09:42 PM on November 22, 2005
I guess I don't see why people make such a big deal about Las Vegas possibly getting a team. It's not like anyone can't go gamble or do morally questionable things anywhere else in this country. I think a team would do well in Vegas, and it's big enough to support one major sports franchise. Slightly off-topic, I'd like to see the Marlins move to Vegas for simple logistical reasons. As a guy with a math degree (not to mention a Cubs fan), I have no clue how you can have 30 MLB teams, six divisions, and somehow have one division with 4 teams and another with 6. Seems to make life easier for Seattle and Oakland, and less so for Chicago and Milwaukee. Move the Marlins to Vegas, move them to the AL West, then move Pittsburgh to the NL East and have six 5-team divisions. Or does that make too much sense?
posted by TheQatarian at 09:43 PM on November 22, 2005
San Jose has been trying to romance the A's away from Oakland which is, after all, a much smaller city quite a bit closer to (Whatever the new name will be for SBC Park now that SBC has changed names to ATT). And if one team per million residents is a real standard, then the South Bay can easily handle franchise. The Valley is back, y'all!
posted by billsaysthis at 10:12 PM on November 22, 2005
The Valley is back but the G'ain'ts ain't going to let you have it....
posted by gfinsf at 12:38 AM on November 23, 2005
They should put a Major League team in Kansas City
posted by sandman at 03:01 AM on November 23, 2005
The sense here (Portland) is that they never were intending to really take us to the dance They did the same thing to Tampa - St. Pete for years, but at least they finally got a team...sort of.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 07:21 AM on November 23, 2005
if vegas can get a ballpark...they are a lock. Espn has already reported this.
posted by scottyooooo at 07:41 AM on November 23, 2005
Tampa Bay got a team? When? What???? OH WAIT...You mean the Devil Rays.....I thought we were talking professionals....
posted by sinisterfoot at 08:11 AM on November 23, 2005
I just don't think this is going to happen while we have our current President. He is the brother of the Governor of Florida, you know. The Marlins may move out of Miami, but they will stay in south Florida. Florida is already pretty hostile to baseball's anti-trust exemption after the threatened contraction.
posted by bperk at 08:53 AM on November 23, 2005
I don't think the work is out nationally, but the Marlins approached Charlotte, NC this morning as a possibility for relocation. They called Charlotte Ofiicials not Charlotte called them..........its all over the news. They are saying we are short listed for acquiring the team and that the city is all for it.......if we get the Marlins all we will need is a hockey team and the Nascar Hall of Fame and we (as a city) will literally have it all! P.S. They are saying the hall of fame announcement should be next week or the week after!
posted by tygereyes812 at 09:08 AM on November 23, 2005
Oh and the Marlins said this morning they are not going to vegas.
posted by tygereyes812 at 09:09 AM on November 23, 2005
its all over the news Link?
posted by DrJohnEvans at 09:29 AM on November 23, 2005
Can't do Vegas: too much corruption and greed. Monterey may be out, too: immigration, travel and corruption issues, but the jobs would be great for the people. Nothing north of the border: no fan support. San Juan is a no: too small Sorry Portland: Pacific NW US already had enough teams. How about trying contraction again. The league is too watered down anyway. Twenty four teams in MLB, tops.
posted by tadley86 at 09:55 AM on November 23, 2005
The Sports Economist sees what's happening: The raid on local taxpayers continues. If I were a city in search of a team, I might inquire whether more than one team at a time gets such "permission." If the policy is one at a time, can there be any explanation other than wilful and deliberate exploitation of monopoly power?
posted by dusted at 10:01 AM on November 23, 2005
I've gotta look for a link, I've heard it on 5 separate radio stations there should be stories on the news tonight (usually whe radio gets a hold of it it is on the 5 or 6 oclock news that evening) so far I have heard it on npr (national public radio), 95.1, 96.1, 97.9, and one other infinity radio station I'm not sure which it was, i caught the tail end of the news bit and then an infinty broadcasting comercial. no tv's at work so i don't know which television new stations have picked up the story yet.
posted by tygereyes812 at 10:01 AM on November 23, 2005
How about trying contraction again. The league is too watered down anyway. Twenty four teams in MLB, tops. Great idea! But it will never happen. I think most pro sports (NFL is really the only exception) have such a thinned out talent pool. Get rid of franchises that don't make sense geographically and economically.
posted by HATER 187 at 10:07 AM on November 23, 2005
Fastest growing city in the U.S., No major sports teams, And prostitution is legal. Seems like a perfect match for a sports franchise.
posted by tron7 at 10:11 AM on November 23, 2005
And I don't like the idea of contraction(twins fan). Just wait till it's your team and you'll understand.
posted by tron7 at 10:12 AM on November 23, 2005
New Orleans should be back and running by then. Might help out their economy a little as well. If they move to Portland, MLB would have to re-do the divisions. The Pirates would probably be an in the East, with six teams in the west instead of Central.
posted by AJ_in_BN at 10:17 AM on November 23, 2005
one more hour until a T.O. post is up!
posted by timdawg at 11:03 AM on November 23, 2005
I just don't think this is going to happen while we have our current President. holy conspiracy theory...everything is bushys fault, eh? What in the world does the president have to do with this? j.bush and the floridian govt had their chance, if the owners of the marlins can get a better deal (better then no deal, rather) somewhere else then good for them. And what is up with the Miami fan base? Two championships in ten years and nobodody goes to or watches the games? Cubs fans must be puking in their shoes right now.
posted by stofer71 at 11:15 AM on November 23, 2005
holy conspiracy theory...everything is bushys fault, eh? What in the world does the president have to do with this? j.bush and the floridian govt had their chance, if the owners of the marlins can get a better deal (better then no deal, rather) somewhere else then good for them. I am recalling all of the political fallout from the proposed contraction. They were calling for congressional hearings about baseball's antitrust exemption. The Florida AG had subpoenaed documents from baseball. If Congress can involved in Schiavo with Jeb's encouragement, they can certainly get involved in this. And what is up with the Miami fan base? Two championships in ten years and nobodody goes to or watches the games? Cubs fans must be puking in their shoes right now. They are not very good at marketing the team. They like to sell off the key parts after one of those wins. Plus, I don't know how any one stands it. It is way too hot to sit outside in the summer in Florida. It is almost too hot to walk from your car to an indoor stadium!
posted by bperk at 11:31 AM on November 23, 2005
It is almost too hot to walk from your car to an indoor stadium! Arizona outdrew the Marlins this year...it is much hotter there. In fact, it is quite hot all summer in most major league cities. Plus the D'Backs weren't in contention all year. The point is the fans aren't supporting the team, a reported loss of $20m last year is the reason for moving the expensive guys. Blaming the problem on the weather or poor marketing just doesn't make much sense. My point is that the good people of S. Fla don't have much to whine about here. They get championships, but they still don't support the team. I don't blame the legislature for not funding a stadium, I don't like tax money going to stadiums. But, if I were owner of the Marlins I sure wouldn't be putting my own money on a stadium in a place that doesn't draw fans for a contending team. Like any good businessman I would be looking for a better deal.
posted by stofer71 at 11:49 AM on November 23, 2005
hotter yes.....but have you ever sat in proplayer stadium after a good rain (and trust me it rains every day in miami). The humidity is what kills you not the heat........arizona has nothing on the heat at a marlins game. ( i grew up in miami going to marlins games every chance i got trust me its hot)
posted by tygereyes812 at 12:17 PM on November 23, 2005
The Diamondbacks, the Devil Rays, and the Astros all have stadiums with roofs to makes games bearable. Also, rain delays in Florida regularly push games to over four hours. The Marlins attendance numbers were good when they first joined the league. Then, they won the WS and Huizenga immediately sold off the team and burnt lots of good will. Then, new ownership comes along and the first thing Henry does is start in on a publicly-financed stadium. I understand that he was getting a bad deal because Huizenga "negotiated" the stadium deal, but why should taxpayers pay for that. He knew what the deal was before he bought the team. Now, of course, there is another new owner. And, just as Marlins attendance rates are increasing, they start another fire sale and threats to move the team. The root of the Marlins financial problems are tied with the terrible stadium deal they are in with Huizenga, who gets the bulk of money for concessions, luxury suites, etc. In the short history of this team, there has been three different owners, contraction threats, and countless threats to move the team. It is hardly any wonder that they haven't managed to find a loyal fanbase.
posted by bperk at 12:27 PM on November 23, 2005
All cities seemed to have ruled out. Anybody got a fresh list?
posted by Joe88 at 12:46 PM on November 23, 2005
And I don't like the idea of contraction(twins fan). Just wait till it's your team and you'll understand. I agree with you 100%, my apologies. Keep the Twins, use the promotion/relegation method to remove teams from MLB. You suck, you leave. When you're better, you come back. If management can't do the job financially, then MLB steps in and fixes or relegates them (like in the EPL), which relieves some of the financial burden from the fans. If it were up to me, though, all of the major 4 profesional sports would get the "reset button". And what is up with the Miami fan base? Two championships in ten years and nobodody goes to or watches the games? Cubs fans must be puking in their shoes right now. True, how many expansion teams win from the beginning and can't hold it down? There's something wrong with that. All of these problems stem from money. Money, money, money. And the fans are always the #1 target.
posted by tadley86 at 12:57 PM on November 23, 2005
If management can't do the job financially, then MLB steps in and fixes or relegates them (like in the EPL), which relieves some of the financial burden from the fans. Except that MLB is perhaps even more incompetent than any owner. They have yet to figure out a plan for the Expos/Nationals. They can't even pick an owner for this team.
posted by bperk at 01:31 PM on November 23, 2005
You suck, you leave. Where would they go?
posted by DrJohnEvans at 01:42 PM on November 23, 2005
The minors. Mutli-tier Major/minor league system: 1. MLB 2. Triple-A/Double A 3. Single A/Rookie league 4. Grass Roots/Semi-pro open league The English Premier League involves practically every soccer team on every level in the country (hundreds of soccer teams); it truly develops talent on every level there.
posted by tadley86 at 02:09 PM on November 23, 2005
Arizona outdrew the Marlins this year...it is much hotter there. Ah, but it's a dry heat.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 04:01 PM on November 23, 2005
Ah, but it's a dry heat. Yep...just like the oven I'll be using today to cook the Turkey!
posted by stofer71 at 10:31 AM on November 24, 2005
I hear Montreal may have a vacancy. Someone should mention that to Loria.