12/21/24
November 15, 2005
Finally a steroide policy with teeth.: On the surface this sounds pretty good. Cant wait to see the entire policy.
Well good for Al. With this new policy, Bud has his legacy that he can leave MLB. Sounds likes its everything that the congress wanted... I love the prospect of a life time ban...
posted by daddisamm at 01:21 PM on November 15, 2005
plot for mystery novel: yankee fan spikes red sox punch with steroids; entire team banned. sequel: entire all-star team of both leagues banned until September due to steroid spiking Frankly, I just wish congress would run the country and leave sports alone. I get the feeling that they want to run sports because they don't know how to run the country.
posted by graymatters at 01:36 PM on November 15, 2005
Frankly, I just wish congress would run the country and leave sports alone. You can forget that, graymatters. Now that Congress knows they can scare Selig and Fehr into doing what they want, Bunning and McCain will soon be designing uniforms, scouting locations for stadiums, et al. Goodbye Major League Baseball; hello, Congressional League Baseball.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 01:46 PM on November 15, 2005
I think you guys are over-reacting just a bit! ;-)
posted by daddisamm at 02:35 PM on November 15, 2005
Congressional League Baseball: "We need more BP balls Leo." "Okay, Tom - fill out a T243 and fax the first half to Equipment Request in Boise at the 242 extension; then phtocopy the second half and mail the copy to Fort Wayne care of Requisitions. File the original with Lisa in Accounts Payable and she'll make sure it comes out of the monthly current account, and not the captial account so renumeration can happen before the thrid quarter." "Goddamn, Leo - I love this game."
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:58 PM on November 15, 2005
That's a good set of gums with at least a few teeth in it. If it had a full set of teeth, ala WADA, it would also involve nullifying past results in some cases.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:09 PM on November 15, 2005
If it had a full set of teeth, ala WADA, it would also involve nullifying past results in some cases. The problem with trying to nullify results in a team sport is that you end up punishing people that are not connected to the problem or directly affected by it (teammates). Nullifying results in individual sports (track & field) works because only those that truly gained from the act are punished. If you are talking about records (instead of wins), then you could end up with a nasty cascading effect: Take away player X's individual stats. That means the runs he knocked in or the HR he hit should be removed from the pitcher that gave them up. That, in turn, affects the pitcher's statistics. As well, the RBIs that his teammates got for knocking him in would have to be removed (since he "officially" was never on base to score them). In an individual sport, it's simply "remove 2nd place finisher, bump everyone up a spot" and that's that.
posted by grum@work at 04:50 PM on November 15, 2005
lifetime ban for third strike? I assume that, ala Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose, this would mean no hall of fame eligibility as well.
posted by graymatters at 05:31 PM on November 15, 2005
The lifetime ban may be appealed after two years. Apparently this policy will start beginning in 2006 and will include previous offenses, sort of like a "grandfathered in" clause. I like the fact this policy will actually keep the offenders out for a substantial amount of games. Having players sit out for 7 games in a 162 game season is just like giving them a vacation. Maybe this will get their attention. Good onya Bud.
posted by stockman1021 at 06:06 PM on November 15, 2005
The problem with trying to nullify results in a team sport is that you end up punishing people that are not connected to the problem or directly affected by it (teammates). Yes, and the WADA policies end up punishing people who didn't necessarily do anything wrong. WADA makes no bones about the fact that what they're meting out isn't perfect justice. You can fault it on all kinds of bases...but lack of teeth is not among them. It is the very definition of teeth, and the new MLB proposal is still a chihuahua in comparison.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:23 PM on November 15, 2005
Yes, and the WADA policies end up punishing people who didn't necessarily do anything wrong. If true, that isn't a good thing. At all.
posted by grum@work at 07:40 PM on November 15, 2005
No, it isn't a good thing...but it's pretty entrenched, and people who speak out against it fall under suspicion. The most recent prominent athlete to do is Bode Miller, who said that he thought some of the drug policies were pointless and unenforceable. He will draw heat as a result, you can bet -- they not-so-subtly threatened to drug-test him every time he turns around because of what he said.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:50 PM on November 15, 2005
Good ol' Bud doesn't have his priorities straight. You get three strikes to cheat and make yourself better to try and get better stats. Yet Pete Rose gets banned for life for betting on baseball. I understand that's wrong, especially being the manager of the Reds and betting on them. However, all those hits he got as a player are legit and he was clean. But you have all these players now (Bonds, McGwire, Palmeiro, etc.) who we all know have used steroids but won't admit it. They also have all these "Hall of Fame" stats that they achieved while on the juice. So let me get this straight...basically you can cheat to try and get an advantage and build up astronomical numbers while on the juice and you get three strikes before being banned for life. But you make one mistake after your career in which you became the all time hits leader, and you are automatically banned for life? Come on Bud you've got to be kidding me. Absolutely ridiculous!!!
posted by Colts_Fan365 at 08:10 PM on November 15, 2005
Does this mean the mighty Bud "Moe" Selig has struck out? HIS third strike was the All-Star game fiasco. And what of poor Rose, Jr....ANOTHER B-teamer down to TWO strikes! Y'know, this may anger some M's and Reds fans, but after seeing the anti-steroids commercial on TV, the one that describe the body as it breaks down the legs, I can't help but wonder why Griffey Jr, the King of the Hamstring, has NEVER been questioned. With all that hammer, his lanky ass was gonna be THE NEXT BAMBINO!!! As Mama would ask, "Whaaa happened"? Just a thought...
posted by Thumper at 09:15 PM on November 15, 2005
Griffey Jr, the King of the Hamstring, has NEVER been questioned. He showed none of the supposed "signs" of being a steroid user (physical or statistical), and he's had the superstar talent since he was a kid (19). basically you can cheat to try and get an advantage and build up astronomical numbers while on the juice and you get three strikes before being banned for life. But you make one mistake after your career in which you became the all time hits leader, and you are automatically banned for life? Come on Bud you've got to be kidding me. Absolutely ridiculous!!! It's absolutely fine by me. The integrity of the league is far more threatened by the suspicion of throwing games than it is by simple "cheating". That's all that steroid use is...cheating. Just like scuffing the ball or corking the bat. You are always going to have cheaters, and there isn't much you can do to stop it. There are a bunch of them in the Hall of Fame right now. Even the greatest ever, Ruth, got caught cheating (using a corked bat). And it wasn't one mistake in Rose's career. It was a long process of breaking the single most important rule in the game. However, you never want to have players that alter the outcome of the games to benefit gamblers. Once the integrity of the game is lost, you'll never get it back again.
posted by grum@work at 12:57 AM on November 16, 2005
One of the basic tenets of baseball (maybe the single biggest one) is to push the limits of what you can get away with, be it leading off, stealing bases, tarring or corking the bat, the hidden-ball trick, one team's coaches running through a whole dance routine worth of signs while the other coaches try to steal them, the catcher setting up outside and diving inside, the high slide to break up the double play, running on the dropped third strike, emery boards and vaseline in a pitcher's glove... all of these and lots more are not only part of the game, many of them are openly encouraged. Baseball is a game of deception. Rules are rules, but just like the country that made it great, the only hard and fast law is this one: anything you do is legal if you get away with it. Cheating has been a part of baseball since Abner Doubleday first received misattribution for inventing the game in the first place, and while cleaning the game up where possible is all well and good, anyone who gets on a high horse about the sanctity of the rules doesn't really understand the basic philosophy of the game.
posted by chicobangs at 04:51 AM on November 16, 2005
My point ^^ is this: don't go rewriting the history books. There's no point. Fix what you can (strengthen the rules from here on, and enforce them against those who get caught breaking them), but the late '90s will always have a shadow over them, and ultimately, it doesn't really make a difference. It's already fading into history, the same way the Dead Ball Era, the Pre-Integration Age, the abolition of the Reserve Clause, the DH Era, and those times where replacement players filled in for the actual stars (like WWII & 1995, there were probably others) color the history of the game and make each generation's memories different from those who came before.
posted by chicobangs at 05:05 AM on November 16, 2005
One of the basic tenets of baseball (maybe the single biggest one) is to push the limits of what you can get away with like my softball coach used to say, it ain't cheating unless you get caught.
posted by goddam at 07:20 AM on November 16, 2005
Ok, baseball's taken care of. Now, how about football, basketball, hockey, soccer, bowling, golf, on and on? I mean, does anyone think that only baseball players use steroids and amphetamines? By the way, if this is really all about protecting impressionable school kids who take steroids to emulate their baseball stars, then why not put up the money to enforce the illegality at the high school and college level? Cain was on ESPN radio this morning talking about how this will help the 6 million school athletes. B___F_____S__. Here, in Texas, they say that they want to test the athletes but do not have the funds to do so. Does anyone think that simply by punishing a few baseball players that this is going to stop teen players from using? I think most use to try to be better on their own team or get a college scholarship. This might cause them to quit using before going pro, but I don't see how it is going to quit them from using to achieve their short term goals.
posted by graymatters at 03:46 PM on November 16, 2005
/reads graymatters' comment /stands and applauds
posted by grum@work at 04:20 PM on November 16, 2005
In other news, Pujols wins the NL MVP.