11/05/24
December 02, 2004
Players for Spanish first division side Getafe might play their next match with their faces blackened with shoe polish...: to prove they are not racist.
With that kind of logic, I wonder what they'd do if they were accused of being homophobic.
posted by rcade at 10:37 AM on December 02, 2004
This just seems to be their crazy chairman talking crazy talk. I can't see it happening. Although it might be quite funny if it did.
posted by afx237vi at 10:48 AM on December 02, 2004
"revive a racist movie make-up technique to prove they aren't racist? interesting approach." I doubt these Spaniards have a fucking clue about the history of American racial problems, least of all something to do with entertainment history. Americans, guess what? Not everyone knows what you are talking about...
posted by StarFucker at 11:33 AM on December 02, 2004
Ah, insensitive and defensive, yes - but what flare!
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:00 PM on December 02, 2004
(oh wait, I assumed you didn't get the reference but maybe you are just saying that the Spaniards would not understand garfield's reference)
posted by gspm at 12:04 PM on December 02, 2004
I know what he's talking about though. It'd be like the old Black and White Minstrel Show on tv over here.
posted by squealy at 12:09 PM on December 02, 2004
Americans, guess what? Not everyone knows what you are talking about... Hey, don't pin this on us. That bastard is from Canada. Blame Canada!
posted by 86 at 12:14 PM on December 02, 2004
Not trying to argue, Starfucker, but can you elaborate for those of us who thought the practice of white actors wearing "black face" was practiced outside of the United States? Did actors not work in "black face" in the early days of European film making? Or for that matter were theatre actors of all races in Europe? I learned at an early age that women weren't allowed to act on stage during Elizabethan times and so men dressed as women. Was the same not true of roles for black people? Did Elizabethan playwrites employ black actors, or did they use white actors in black face? I am serious. It seems to me that these things did not only happen in early 20th Century America in silent films. I admit there are *plenty* of Americans who believe the world revolves around them, and even that the Internet is American, but I doubt garfield was exhibiting these ignorances when he made that comment. I really am serious, and only want to know the answers to my questions. I don't think Al Jolson was the first person to wear black face, and I don't think only Americans practiced it. Thanks for hearing me out.
posted by scully at 12:17 PM on December 02, 2004
SF, why so hostile? 86, its on now brutha! [raspy professional wrestler impersonation]
posted by garfield at 12:22 PM on December 02, 2004
Does it make me a racist that I think this is hilarious? SF, why so hostile?. Old Starfucker is always hostile isn't he? That's what makes him so loveable.
posted by Fat Buddha at 12:38 PM on December 02, 2004
I can't think of anything more apeasing than 11 little Al Jolsons running around a football pitch in Spain. Perhaps a team somewhere outside Spain could reciprocate by playing a match dressed as hairy women with castanets. No one would find that offensive I'm sure. I bet the team organising the 2012 Madrid Olympic bid are just loving all this.
posted by JJ at 04:34 PM on December 02, 2004
Don't forget the donkey wearing a sombrero as the mascot. i heart SpoFi,
posted by squealy at 05:25 PM on December 02, 2004
Oh i wasn't trying to be hostile... I was just bringing up the fact that if Spaniards are wearing blackface, they aren't doing it to insult Americans, nor are they ignorant sods for doing so...but are probably trying to find a way to address a problem they are having. Its probably not the way Americans would handle it, as Americans don't really have alot of tact when it comes down to it. Most arguments about race end up with name calling...or are avoided altogether and always boiling right under the surface. And i'm not talking about discussing it here online, but face to face. Here is a puzzler...why is it that if you ask a black person what they are here in the States, they say African American...but if you ask a black person in England or France what they are, they say they are English or French European says, "You know, i noticed that Americans take alot of things personally..." American replies, "I do not!"
posted by StarFucker at 07:10 PM on December 02, 2004
From gspm's link: Minstrel shows were a fantastically popular show business phenomenon in the USA from 1828 through the 1930s, also enjoying some popularity in the UK and in parts of Europe in the late 19th and early 20th century.
posted by StarFucker at 07:14 PM on December 02, 2004
I don't care where you're from - painting your face black to show solidarity with another race is insensitive - the underlying suggestion is that the most important thing about that race is the colour of their skin. Would you try and show solidarity with the Chinese by taping your eyelids at an angle? Or with the English by painting your teeth yellow? Would you come out in support of the Irish by getting drunk a lot - or with the Scots by refusing to buy the drinks? Painting your face black is insulting. It's proposterous, and it is ignorant, and I'm hoping it's just one lunatic in Spain thinking it's a good idea and that he will be shouted down if he suggests it to his players. It's not addressing the issue of racism in the least - it's compounding a racial stereotype, and thereby worsening the situation. And I'm not saying any of that because I'm a black American - I'm Irish, and I couldn't be whiter. I was born in South Africa in the seventies. I'm virtually a fascist.
posted by JJ at 04:23 AM on December 03, 2004
Thanks for reading my post JJ...not.
posted by StarFucker at 08:49 AM on December 03, 2004
Would you come out in support of the Irish by getting drunk a lot I, for one, am down with that, but of course I've got Irishmen in the woodpile anyway.
posted by trox at 09:19 AM on December 03, 2004
Oh i wasn't trying to be hostile... I was just bringing up the fact that if Spaniards are wearing blackface, they aren't doing it to insult Americans SF, the problem is that no one (especially not garfield, whom you singled out) said anything about this practice insulting Americans. You made the thread about Americans and our inability to get along with others, our ignorance, our arrogance and everything else you apparently don't like about us. Perhaps the Spaniards can dress all in plaid to show their solidarity with Americans? Afterall, isnt' that what English comedians/filmmakers do when they want to show that characters are stupid Americans? Dress them in plaid with black socks and burmuda shorts? Feck, I don't even like Americans, and I am one (stupid parents having me in this country!). But no one but you made this thread about Americans and our stupidity.
posted by scully at 09:33 AM on December 03, 2004
whom you singled out who me? take being singled out personally? how american.
posted by garfield at 10:05 AM on December 03, 2004
We're supposed to read? I thought we were just supposed to dive in and type. Completely off the point - Americans take things personally? My (exceptionally limited) experience has lead me to believe the typical American to have skin as thick as a Rhino's and to be virtually uninsultable.
posted by JJ at 11:11 AM on December 03, 2004
Its as if i'm talking to a brick wall... If Spaniards are dressing up in blackface to PROTEST racism, its obviously not seen as racist to do so IN SPAIN. The only people that are viewing this as racist would be who? Americans...therefore i brought them up! Who are the people in this thread that think its racist?! Americans...maybe a Canadian or two and possibly a Brit. Are there any Spaniards here?!
posted by StarFucker at 11:32 AM on December 03, 2004
SF, its not obvious at all! That's why this is newsworthy. And since you aren't a Spaniard, what are you basing this obvious conclusion of yours on?
posted by garfield at 11:47 AM on December 03, 2004
I give up.
posted by StarFucker at 12:10 PM on December 03, 2004
I saw this originally reported in the Telegraph (registration req'd so i found another source), and it was mentioned on the BBC website. This is a story picked up by the UK press... so were they doing so to say "jolly good, those Spaniards are coming around after the racial incidents in the Spain-England friendly" or to say "get a load of this funny story" or to say "get a load of these racists that don't get it"? I don't know the answer.
posted by gspm at 12:11 PM on December 03, 2004
Since racism has been a main story in European soccer this season, it must've been reported for its comedic value.
posted by garfield at 12:17 PM on December 03, 2004
SF, i think your problem is using such strong language as 'only' and 'obviously' in conjunction with suppositions. I can see the point you're trying to make, but its far from a foregone conclusion.
posted by garfield at 12:27 PM on December 03, 2004
If Spaniards are dressing up in blackface to PROTEST racism, its obviously not seen as racist to do so IN SPAIN. Some Spanish supporters made monkey noises at black English players. The following week, when Real Madrid played Bayer Leverkusen, some Real supporters made monkey noises and Nazi salutes at the German team's black players. By your logic, just because it happened means that people in Spain are OK with it, and that therefore we should be OK with it too. I agree with you - it's admirable that the players want to do something to protest racism - but the choice of blacking up as a means to doing that is at best ill-advised and at worst adding fuel to the very segregatory fire they wish to put out. To me, the whole incident (the monkey noises in the first instance, and this subsequent reaction to them) suggests something about the level of racism (active and passive) in the country that I have never encountered or suspected in my visits there. I'm not saying that these footballers should be condemned for wanting to do something to protest racism and to demonstrate that they support players of any colour or creed in their league (or anywhere else), just that the method that is being suggested is wholly inappropriate no matter what country you're from. Being part of a culture or a tradition doesn't make something alright - if it did, they wouldn't be trying to outlaw fox hunting in England and Wales - if it did, the Nazi party's cultures and traditions of exterminating non-Aryans would have been tolerated and not reviled and crushed - if it did, there would still be slaves living and working in supposedly free countries. I'm sorry if you consider it to constitute me not listening to your argument, but I don't accept "it's how they do things in Spain" as a valid defence of an action that is clearly, and in every demonstrable way, regardless of intention, racist.
posted by JJ at 08:36 AM on December 04, 2004
revive a racist movie make-up technique to prove they aren't racist? interesting approach.