12/18/24
August 03, 2004
The defense calls... Shaquille O'Neal to the stand?: The Kobe trial could get even more complicated.
Strike that...guess I shoulda read the entire article instead of going off half-cocked... =D
posted by MeatSaber at 02:45 PM on August 03, 2004
Groping a chick at a party who doesn't expect it and hasn't given consent is sleazy but at least from the account in the linked article I don't see anything close to rape in that situation. She pushed him away after the first contact and he didn't follow her or pursue her further.
posted by billsaysthis at 03:58 PM on August 03, 2004
at the time, she alleges, Bryant cornered her and groped her private parts Groping her private parts? Maybe it's not rape, but it's more than a sexist remark or a pat on the behind. He didn't follow or pursue her but he was at a party, not near the same situation he had at the hotel. It shows his attitude about women, and to try and down play it is a little appalling. I'm hoping groping someone's privates isn't considered boys will be boys. And if you're going to bring her sexual past into the trial, and what she supposedly did after the kobe incident, showing kobe's past seems fair game imho.
posted by justgary at 07:42 PM on August 03, 2004
I said it was sleazy, I'll add boorish and unmanly, but the article does state that when she protested and walked away, he made no further effort and this is extremely different than rape and assault.
posted by billsaysthis at 08:32 PM on August 03, 2004
"Counsel objects to Mr. O'Neal's testimony, on the grounds that his monotone voice is impossible to understand."
posted by molafson at 01:30 AM on August 04, 2004
Bill, sure, it's not rape. But the fact that kobe "walked away" has nothing to do with why they brought it up. 1. It was a party at shaq's house and catered by planet hollywood. I'm guessing that there were a ton of people at that party. Much different than being alone with a girl in the middle of nowhere. I have no idea if he raped the girl, but saying he "walked away" in that situation just shows he's not an idiot. Because you don't pick someones pocket in broad daylight doesn't mean you wouldn't do it at night. 2. The article states: Her testimony might be used by the prosecution to show that aggressive sexual actions are part of Bryant's pattern of behavior. Which it does perfectly.
posted by justgary at 11:50 AM on August 04, 2004
catered by planet hollywood Ewwww. This is getting more and more interesting. From CNN:
The woman who accused Kobe Bryant of rape will have to discuss with prosecutors whether she will go ahead with the criminal case because she fears the release of court documents about her sex life threatens her chance of getting a fair hearing, one of her lawyers said Wednesday. John Clune said his 20-year-old client will have to talk to prosecutors soon about that and will also consider whether to file a civil suit against the NBA star. Asked if his client is considering dropping out of the criminal case, Clune told The Associated Press: "That's something she and prosecutors will have to discuss in the immediate future. The DA's office will have to make that decision on what they want to do."
posted by Ufez Jones at 12:39 PM on August 04, 2004
Ufez, there was also an article in the paper this morning stating that the judge's decision to allow her panties, with semen from two different men, into evidence might also put the kibosh on the case. As a man and someone who's never been raped, I wouldn't put myself in her mind or as an expert in her thinking, but to me it seems that if Bryant had raped her (as opposed to his story on consensual sex) I do wonder why she went off and had sex with another guy before reporting the crime.
posted by billsaysthis at 12:57 PM on August 04, 2004
she fears the release of court documents about her sex life threatens Hard to believe rape is under reported. At least now it's out in the open. If you have sex with someone after being raped, you're in trouble in court.
posted by justgary at 01:38 PM on August 04, 2004
Hard to believe rape is under reported. That's probably going to be the worst legacy of this case, but the rape-shield law in Colorado (as I understand it) results in unequal protection. The sexual history of the accused is fair game, but the accuser is protected. It probably works in most cases, but it seems vulnerable to abuse. This case will probably get some of the shield laws thrown out, which means the laws will be more fair from an academic standpoint, and less fair in practical application. It sucks.
posted by dusted at 02:10 PM on August 04, 2004
"If you have sex with someone after being raped, you're in trouble in court." I guess that's a simple and biased way to look at it. Another simple and biased way to look at it is: "If you have sex with a celebrity, then have sex with someone else later that day, and then realize even later you want to accuse the celebrity of rape, you're in trouble in court." Please note: This is strictly a "devil's advocate" response. Do not "rip me a new one" for this comment..
posted by grum@work at 03:24 PM on August 04, 2004
If rape is such a bad thing, and I do believe it is pretty high on the list of terrible things that can happen to a person, then how are you capable of going out and having consensual sex a few hours later? Forget about celebrity involvement, just on a human level. OTOH, if you were thinking that a quickie would get you a longterm place in a celebrity's heart but quickly found out that wasn't on the agenda, a rape charge would be a real handy piece of payback.
posted by billsaysthis at 04:38 PM on August 04, 2004
Pure speculation. There are a ton of possible explanations/excuses for the behaviour of either party. The bottom line is we'll never know. The law sure as shit ain't about discovering the truth.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:11 AM on August 05, 2004
I guess that's a simple and biased way to look at it. I'm not quite getting the 'bias' part, nor really the 'simple'. If people are going to believe that having sex after being raped is an impossibility, then you better not have sex after being raped. That maybe simple, but its the truth. No complication is needed. I'm not saying she was raped, or not. In the end, as far as what I said, it doesn't matter. In fact, it seems to make the did she or didn't she question meaningless. Most people are going to look at the sexual activity after the supposed rape and immediately discount her story. then how are you capable of going out and having consensual sex a few hours later? Shock maybe? I agree it wouldn't seem that someone who was raped would have sex soon after. But it also doesn't make sense that someone molested as a child would molest someone else later. Human reactions are unpredictable, and to make blanket statements regarding behavior after a traumatic event would be a mistake.
posted by justgary at 09:22 AM on August 05, 2004
Human reactions are unpredictable, and to make blanket statements regarding behavior after a traumatic event would be a mistake. Very true.
posted by billsaysthis at 01:11 PM on August 05, 2004
They're calling a "22-year-old Florida waitress who claims she was the object of unwanted sexual advances by Bryant" to the stand. Not to sound like a lech or anything, but isn't every man in America guilty of this at one time or another? Does that make every man in America a rapist?