March 09, 2004

Bertuzzi suspended indefinitely for hit on Moore.: We talked a little earlier this year about frustration around the league about the CBA. Is that the cause of garbage like this? Is this going to get worse before it gets better?

posted by MeatSaber to hockey at 08:22 AM - 64 comments

It's deadline day, too. Bertuzzi's going to be in a world of hurt. He's been suspended before and despite Moore's hit on Naslund, there is no reason for that crap. I think he's got a lengthy suspension coming his way. And someone needs to do something to Crawford. I don't know who and I'm not sure exactly why, but someone needs to take him behind the bleachers and disgrace his face with a fist or a foot. Derek Morris had a lot to say. Too bad he won't be around anymore to enjoy the rivalry. And speaking of Avs trades... Salo? Really? Why?

posted by 86 at 08:36 AM on March 09

one word: instigator. Bertuzzi's tackle has alot more to it than that though. Obviously, it was retaliation for Moore's hit on Naslund, that while legal was not exactly clean. Add to that a recent Canuck slump, Burke's contract, goal tender issues heading into the playoffs, all this after dominating the league for the first third/half of the season, and you get one frustrated hockey team.

posted by garfield at 08:37 AM on March 09

bert is one dumb mofo. i thought he had smartened up after the suspension for coming off the bench, but apparently not. watching the game last night, i felt sick to my stomach when i saw moore's head hit the ice. i dont think bert meant for that to happen, but he created the situation that allowed it to happen...the effect this could have on the team probably cannot be underestimated. its going to be a while before ill be proud to say im a canuck fan again.

posted by owl at 08:43 AM on March 09

the reaction in the blogosphere is unanimous, heartfelt, and stern.

posted by garfield at 09:30 AM on March 09

The league will throw the book at him. Bounty-killin' is not something the league needs, or should tolerate. This could be a very serious injury. He should be made by Colin Campbell into the worst kind of example. Give him the year + first round of playoffs, at minimum. I feel especially bad for Canucks fans, who must feel deflated today. All of a sudden the playoff race doesn't mean much. But hey, it's trade day! Anyone wanna guess where Miro Satan will end up? I'll guess...Dallas.

posted by Succa at 09:36 AM on March 09

Well Bert finally snapped. Morris hit the nail on the head when he compared this to Donald Brashear being clubbed by Marty McSorley. The punishment should be exactly the same. Bert should be gone for the rest of the season including any playoff games the Nuks play. He'll be very lucky to not end up being charged with assuslt for an attack like that. I don't believe for a second that he didn't mean to run Moore's head in to the ice. You can clearly see him driving his head down. Make no mistake he lost it, and he meant to do it. The punshiment handed out by the league should reflect that. It's really a shame because Bertuzzi is really a very good player, and his skill will be missed by the fans.

posted by camcanuck at 09:41 AM on March 09

My biggest problem with this incident is that Bertuzzi shuld have known better. It's not like he's some rookie hothead with more adrenaline than sense. He's an experienced leader who knows what's what in this league. Or should. Homeboy's got a lot of nerve piledriving someone like that. Shame, too. I really liked the guy. I'm sure he feels sick about it himself, and certainly the Canucks are going to miss him. I'm glad Moore's okay, and the Canucks are still a solid team who could easily pull out of their slump and run through a few playoff rounds, but this is the kind of bush-league shite that can derail a team completely. I don't know about the existential greater-frustration angle, but who's to say?

posted by chicobangs at 09:44 AM on March 09

"Todd feels awful about it and is very sorry. I know it might not mean much right now. As weird as it seems I don't think that was Todd's intentions.'' What a load of horseshit. You don't chase a guy across a rink, then jump him from behind because YOU DIDN'T MEAN TO DO IT. Up until last night, I really thought I'd be glad to have Bertuzzi on my team. Now I think the bastard should be facing charges. I'm all for the rough-and-tumble, and I don't mind the fights. I think I even understand them. But when someone crosses the line like this, a suspension for the remainder of the year is the only solution. What will Bertuzzi get? I'm guessing 6-8 games, because Gary Bettman is a spineless punk.

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:53 AM on March 09

Anyone wanna guess where Miro Satan will end up? I still say it would be cool to see him in Jersey. That said, please let Ken Holland swing a killer deal for him...please oh please oh please...

posted by MeatSaber at 09:57 AM on March 09

I just want to hear Marc Crawford's comments on this, considering his tirade earlier on this month. What a fucking cheapshot that was. Moore's hit was straight-up, face to face; that was from behind, picking on a smaller body and ultimately, asking for the city of Vancouver to blame the rest of the season on his idiocy in getting himself suspended.

posted by dfleming at 09:58 AM on March 09

dfleming: I heard Crawford on the radio this morning saying that he didn't really want to comment at this time other than saying Bertuzzi plays the game hard and with a lot of emotion. Gary Bettman won't be involved in detmining the length of the suspension. That is Colin Cambells's job. If Bertuzzi appeals then Bettman will get the final say.

posted by camcanuck at 10:16 AM on March 09

I never did like Bertuzzi, to me he was always riding the coat-tails of the MUCH more talented Naslund, and this just sealed the deal for me: he's a bonehead, plain and simple. They fought Moore earlier in the game and that should have been the end of it. But, clearly, it was not. Bonehead play by a dumbass player. I hope he gets the rest of the season and *at least* one playoff round. Maybe more. And I'd prefer if he wasn't picked for the Canadian team. You want a power forward? Get Thornton.

posted by mkn at 10:47 AM on March 09

Moore's hit was straight-up, face to face I just saw the Moore hit again, and in no way was it clean. legal yes, but not even close to clean. 99 out of 100 times, a player in Moore's position continues to play the puck. Naslund was reaching, but was letting up because the puck was out of reach. Ergo, no threat to take the puck. But, as Crawford said earlier, it was a no name punk looking to make a name for himself. So he decided to win a physical battle opportuity that presented itself to him, even though the smart hockey play was to move the puck and catch Naslund out of position. Oh, and it more like shoulder/elbow to face. If anyone thinks these two incidents aren't related, you are mistaken. That issue could've been settled during that game in February. Rather, a team stewed for weeks and things boiled over. Anyone catch the game? After having an embarassing first, the Nucks came back in the second, hitting everything and anyone in sight. It was old time hockey. Sakic, Kariya, didn't matter. The lead was knocked down to 3 early in the second(5-2), and then the refs made several very shitty calls in a row (the Hedburg delay of game comes to mind) hemming in the Nucks in their own end on the PK. It was an attempt to try and keep the game under control, as it was obvious it had some very bad potential. Instead, I think it had the opposite effect. There is no excuse for his actions. I can't believe Naslund's spin, especially with the facewash into the ice. But the cause of a such a reaction should be looked into. I think he'll get the rest of the regular season and a couple games in the first round.

posted by garfield at 10:56 AM on March 09

Gary Bettman won't be involved in detmining the length of the suspension. That is Colin Cambells's job. If Bertuzzi appeals then Bettman will get the final say. A fuck-up of this magnitude (PR nightmare, splattered all over TV and the Web) requires the commissioner to be involved in the suspension decision. If Bettman doesn't step in and make his wishes heard here, even if it's just behind the scenes, he's even weaker than I thought.

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:11 AM on March 09

I figured things were done when Moore got into the fight earlier in the game. That's how it is supposed to be solved (according to "old time" rules). What Bertuzzi did was dispicable, and if he gets suspended for less than the rest of the regular season, it's too little. If this was a "European" player (like Malahkov or Chara or Jonsson) doing this then Don Cherry would be asking for their public execution. As it is, I expect Cherry to do his usual "I'm not supporting what he did, but he's a good guy who made a stupid mistake." routine. He did it when Dale Hunter blindsided Pierre Turgeon after he scored a goal, he did it when Marty McSorely went headhunting on Donald Brashear and he'll do it with Bertuzzi as well. (note: I usually am a fan of Don Cherry, but his willingness to turn a blind-eye towards "good old boys" wreacking havoc is something I DEFINITELY don't support.)

posted by grum@work at 11:20 AM on March 09

I think Jordan's comment says it best: "it's what happens when years of frustration builds, referees look the other way and don't chuck people when they're out of control, and when the NHL doesn't do anything about these long-standing feuds. Even a token one-game suspension on Moore would have soothed a lot of this. Instead, it's the wild wild west out here--no law and order."

posted by garfield at 11:24 AM on March 09

legal yes, but not even close to clean. I don't quite understand this statement. If something was considered to be a dirty play in hockey, would it not be illegal? Moore is a checking-line center; his role on the team is to be gritty, to finish his checks and to generally get under the skin of the other team. He's not going to take that puck and dart up the ice, deke out the defensemen and score a goal. Moore did go out of his way to finish a check, but the fact of the matter is that it was all within the legal lines of the game. If we're going to say that going out of your way to play a role like a checking-line center needs to play by finishing your checks isn't clean, the rules ought to be changed to allow for more pussy-footing around.

posted by dfleming at 11:32 AM on March 09

"it's what happens when years of frustration builds, referees look the other way and don't chuck people when they're out of control, and when the NHL doesn't do anything about these long-standing feuds. Even a token one-game suspension on Moore would have soothed a lot of this. Instead, it's the wild wild west out here--no law and order." While I agree with that statement about tension building, the players have a responsibility to live with the decisions of the league. Three weeks of retrubution talk followed by a cheap shot? If Bert really wanted a shred of respect, he'd have turned the man around, dropped the gloves, and settled it. Instead, he took a cheap shot and sat on him, proving that he's really the lowest form of hockey player around. The Canucks fans cheering was classless, just as classless as when Bert sat his fat ass on Chris Chelios a few games back, injuring his shoulder, and the fans booed Cheli off the ice. Come on. I just saw the video. Disgusting.

posted by adampsyche at 11:42 AM on March 09

Ever hear of a dirty player? They wouldn't exist if everything they did was illegal.

posted by garfield at 11:43 AM on March 09

One good thing that is coming out of this, and the Havlat incident, and the Philly/Sens brawl... that "thug" monicker is rubbing off of the Leafs and smudging onto other guys. Finally.

posted by mkn at 11:45 AM on March 09

I think the league needs to take a serious look at the events of the past week or two. just for example, its been approx two years since goalies fought before the sens/philly game. that's too long. scores need to be settled more often.

posted by garfield at 11:50 AM on March 09

Nothing Moore did called for that kind of action in return. Nothing. It's really quite simple. There could have been some appropriate retribution for the questionable Naslund play and frankly I think there was. Grum pointed it out before, Moore got in a fight earlier in the game. You rough him up, drop the gloves with him, hit him hard in corners, talk about his mom, spit at his feet and generally make it a tough night for him. That is how this situation is handled all over hockey, whether there was a suspension or not. Now here is what you don't do: Wait until the game is well towards over and club him in the back of the head from behind.

posted by 86 at 11:52 AM on March 09

I heard Moore suffered a broken that true?

posted by Succa at 11:59 AM on March 09

Agreed, but blame lies beyond Bertuzzi alone.

posted by garfield at 11:59 AM on March 09

No news is available right now on Moore's status.

posted by garfield at 12:07 PM on March 09

Ever hear of a dirty player? They wouldn't exist if everything they did was illegal. All the dirty players that I've ever heard of; Marchment, Chelios, McSorley, etc, all got suspended and reprimanded for their dirty play. Please, provide examples of dirty players who play who are dirty based on non-illegal actions because I can't think of any.

posted by dfleming at 12:10 PM on March 09

I heard Moore suffered a broken that true? ESPN (Dan Patrick Radio Show) is reporting that Moore is undergoing surgery for broken vertebrae.

posted by 86 at 12:17 PM on March 09

dirty players who play who are dirty based on non-illegal actions I said nothing of the sort. What I said was that dirty players wouldn't be in the league if they broke the rules to the point of suspension every time they stepped on the ice.

posted by garfield at 12:20 PM on March 09

I've got to disagree with Garfield on the Nasland hit. If that is Forsberg instead of Nasland, any Canuck would dish out the same hit. Hockey is a contact sport, and when an opposing teams player (star or not) puts himself in a position to get run over that's part of the game. Why do you suspend someone (even for 1 game) for playing by the rules. If the Nasland hit was deserving of a supension, then so are dozens of others every week in the NHL. Should Scott Stevens have been suspended for his shoulder to the head hit on Karyia in the playoffs? The Steven's hit was legal as well. Why is this different? If I going to lay blame on anyone (other than Burtuzzi who deserves 99.9% of it), it would be Crawford, the media and to lesser extent Granato. Crawford just made the situation worse by creating such a big deal about it, and the media just ran with it. It wasn't long before reports of a 'bounty' on Moore's head were being reported. Granato should have known better than to be playing Moore with 10 minutes left in a 9-2 game. That being said since Moore had already fought once Granato was probably was thinking of resting his star players rather than worring about Moore getting assaulted. On Preview: I haven't heard anything on Moore's status either.

posted by camcanuck at 12:26 PM on March 09

Moore has two cracked vertabrae. Damn. Bertuzzi is dead meat.

posted by Succa at 12:31 PM on March 09

The Score is reporting he's got a cracked vertabrae in his neck. That's all I've seen today. Well put camcanuck, I agree with you.

posted by dfleming at 12:31 PM on March 09

I pose you this question: If there is so much need for change to rule enforcement in the league, how come its fine to have a dirty legal hit, but some borderline kneeing call gets a player a 2 gamer? I'd say concussions are a much larger problem, and rule enforcement should reflect that.

posted by garfield at 12:50 PM on March 09

And here I thought I heard the police weren't going to investigate this incident, but now it looks like they are. According to the link, Moore has a fractured vertebra in his neck, a broken jaw and a concussion.

posted by camcanuck at 12:56 PM on March 09

not to have bloodlust... but being an NHL fan living overseas... does anyone have a link to online video? The NHL website (of course) doesn't have it and says they have a clip of the game and postgame reaction but I can't seem to get it to load. Dunno if they have the clip but they surely wouldn't hide the story like the NHL would. I can't seem to access the Avs site (? a crush of traffic ? Tommy Salo fans?), the Canucks site has 3 and a half minutes of "highlights" but omits that part (and goals 6 through 8 for the Avs), the Denver area TV websites don't have any clips of related stories. I just want to see what the story is here.

posted by gspm at 01:00 PM on March 09

This is horrible for the sport. Remember, this wasn't done by a thug this time, but one of the "Premier All Star (thugs)" of the game. He needs to have his ass handed to him by the league.

posted by tj at 01:00 PM on March 09

gspm, its ugly. basically starts with a wild swing to the head which knocks Moore forward. Bertuzzi then checks him from behind and follows him to the ice landing on his back (probably cause of injury). As they are hitting the ice, Bertuzzi uses his arm to force Moore's head forward, making sure he contacts the ice. Then Bertuzzi readjusts his arm, and then pushes Moore's face into the ice for more. 2 seconds that should never been.

posted by garfield at 01:06 PM on March 09

video here: Suspension for the rest of the year, including playoffs, seems about right to me, and I wouldn't be against a criminal investigation. It's one thing to cheap shot a guy from behind, but to drive his face into the ice like that is too much.

posted by mbd1 at 01:14 PM on March 09

Man, it's brutal every single time. I'm not sure Moore isn't out after the first punch. He sure doesn't protect himself when he falls to the ice. 20 games?

posted by 86 at 01:38 PM on March 09

I pose you this question: If there is so much need for change to rule enforcement in the league, how come its fine to have a dirty legal hit, but some borderline kneeing call gets a player a 2 gamer? I'd say concussions are a much larger problem, and rule enforcement should reflect that. You don't get it. At least for me, if the referee's don't see it as a problem, and the league doesn't see it as a problem then it's not a dirty legal hit; it's a legal hit. The fact of the matter is that it's unfortunate that Naslund got a concussion from it, but there was nothing wrong with finishing a check. Same with Stevens' hit on Kariya; unfortunate the way it ended, but you can't fault someone for doing something that's allowed. Kneeing is illegal; it's not a legal check, it's an attempt to injure.

posted by dfleming at 01:38 PM on March 09

garfield: I'll try to answer your question. Concussions have become a big problem, but a large portion of that has to be from the increaded awarness of training staff in dealing with them. Even 5 years ago a lot of people who had concussions would never had been diagnosed. I have said this before; a player wearing their equipment properly will usually not be hurt by any legal hit. There are exceptions of course. We'll never really know, but I bet the cut and the concussion that Nasland suffered had more to do with hitting the ice than hitting Moore's shoulder. A good friend of mine is a trainer for a minor league team and he'll tell you almost all the consussions he sees area related to how the player hits the ice. There isn't much you can do about that except wear your equipment properly (which most NHLer's don't). No matter what protection I'm wearing if you knee me there is a very good likelyhood that I will be hurt. Same goes for elbowing, boarding etc. That is why those actions are illegal. The only way you could ensure people never got hurt from hit's like the one Nasland took would be to eliminate hitting from the game. Although if the NHL and NHLPA started being more strict on how helmets are worn by players it would probably help a lot.

posted by camcanuck at 02:17 PM on March 09

Here's a naive question from an admitted non-follower of hockey: when injury results from a deliberate hit in hockey, is it extremely rare that criminal charges result? And if so, is this not...well, awfully damn dumb? I mean, it's all well and good to talk about how officials could and should provide deterrents in the form of suspensions, but sitting out a game at home is nothing like sitting out a whole bunch of games in a 6x9 as you pursue your new career sewing mailbags as a guest of the state. It wouldn't have been a long shot for the victim to be killed by a hit like this, and I just can't see any number of game suspensions as anything but a slap on the wrist.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:23 PM on March 09

Seamless glass has a lot to do with the rise in concussions, too. That shit just does not give...

posted by MeatSaber at 02:24 PM on March 09

lil_brown_bat: there have been 6 cases of players charged since 1976. 4 were convicted or admitted to it, I believe.

posted by dfleming at 02:41 PM on March 09

I'm not sure Moore isn't out after the first punch. i see that too. his head slumps right away and the only reason he's not immediately falling on the ice at that point is bertuzzi still has a grab on moore's jersey.

posted by jerseygirl at 03:00 PM on March 09

Taska has a less than popular opinion on this whole incident, but I think he has a point. The sucker punch happens more often than you think. That said what he misses and what sets Bertuzzi's behaviour apart from others is the fact that he drives Moore's head into the ice as he is falling. That shows malice and intent to injure. I really think if you watch the video it's clear Burtuzzi isn't accidentally falling or tripping. It's a deliberate act.

posted by camcanuck at 04:16 PM on March 09

when injury results from a deliberate hit in hockey, is it extremely rare that criminal charges result? And if so, is this not...well, awfully damn dumb? Not really. Playing hockey implies consent to be assaulted in the ways that are legal in the sport. Many hockey plays would be assault with a deadly weapon on the street. As a random example, if by some miracle I end up playing for the Oilers, and let's say Zdeno Chara legally checks me into the boards and snaps my scrawny computer-programmer body in half, he shouldn't need a lawyer. It sounds like Bertuzzi will be prosecuted, and he should be. He hurt the guy, he meant to hurt him, and the way he did it wasn't legal within the game.

posted by alex_reno at 04:17 PM on March 09

when injury results from a deliberate hit in hockey, is it extremely rare that criminal charges result? And if so, is this not...well, awfully damn dumb? The difference from an injury from a play that has some semblance of being a legal play in hockey (blind-side bodycheck) and one that is wholly outside the realm of fairplay (sucker-punching a guy from behind and then riding his unconscious body face first into the ice) is huge. Everyone knows that players can get injured from playing hockey (or football or rugby), even if everyone follows the rules. It's when a player goes completely outside the boundaries of the sport that the police have to take a look. In this case (and in the McSorely/Brashear and Green/Maki incidents, to name a couple of others), it was so flagrant, so violent and so completely uncalled for (Moore hadn't even touched Bertuzzi, so it wasn't like it was "instantaneous retaliation") that I whole-heartedly support the police investigation. I'm not sure Moore isn't out after the first punch. He's definitely out after the punch. I've seen the same thing in boxing matches and after Lindros got clocked by Stevens with a hit years ago. The head slumping, the arms going limp (and providing no protection) and the way he just stops skating entirely...lights out for sure.

posted by grum@work at 04:23 PM on March 09

Oh, and Salo to the Avs? Get ready for Salo's extra-spiffy .896 save percentage! Of course, I guess the Oil are now relying on Jussi to keep our oh-so-faint playoff hopes alive. Yikes.

posted by alex_reno at 04:37 PM on March 09

thoughts out to moore. hope he recuperates fast and well.

posted by owl at 06:40 PM on March 09

If people agree that this is as bad or worse (I think worse) than the McSorely incident, why no talk of the same one year suspension? I am seeing 10 games, rest of the regular season, through the playoffs...hell, Brad May got 20 games, no questions asked a few years ago for a high stick slash that may or may not have been somewhat accidental. This was a premeditated, three weeks in the making attack. Personally I will be disappointed if he plays at all next season and would advocate that if Moore's injuries end his career, so too should Bertuzzi's career be over. At least the thugs of old largely knew the real nasty stuff was done face to face with the gloves off. Makes ya miss Proebert.

posted by pivo at 08:18 PM on March 09

thanks for the multimedia hookup mdb1. brutal. I hope the guy is going to be okay.

posted by gspm at 01:20 AM on March 10

Pivo, someone is calling for a one year suspension. Read it here. I didn't realize that it was the second game these two teams have played since the Moore/Naslund incident. It only makes it more damning. And I love Frei for bringing Crawford into this mess. He deserves no less. The more and more I think about it, I keep adding games to the suspension I'd like to see handed down. I'm up to the 30 or 40 game level.

posted by 86 at 08:41 AM on March 10

How to know your in Canada? The Bertuzzi incident was the lead news story (not just the lead sports story) here last night. After seeing replays of the McSorely clubbing it is clear to me that what Bertuzzi did is worse, and the punishment should reflect that. A 1 year suspension from the time of the attack... at least. Further to what pivo says most people seem to think Bertuzzi is going to gone for the rest of the regular season (13 games), and maybe a few playoff games and that is it. The NHL will have a PR disaster is that is all they give him. This incident has yet again given the sport a big black eye. Bertuzzi needs to step up, take responsibility and publicly apologize to Moore and all the fans (I doubt he will do this though because of the legal case against him), and the NHL needs to severely punish that act. If they don't the NHL will look like a bush league where star players can all but kill a guy and still be around for the playoffs. My prediction is that he will only get 20 games which means if the Nuk's make it past the first round of the playoffs they could have him back in the lineup. I really, really hope I'm wrong.

posted by camcanuck at 09:19 AM on March 10

Of note: The disciplinary hearing has been delayed.

posted by camcanuck at 09:45 AM on March 10

If they suspend him a year and there is no hockey next year, I assume the suspension would carry over until after the new CBA is worked out. Anyone have any idea if that is indeed the case? It's a shame we have to think about such things.

posted by 86 at 09:59 AM on March 10

They might have to make a special dispensation for this one case in the new CBA. And delaying the case hearing is not the worst thing they can do. There's no need for a rush to judgement here; he's not expecting to come back any time soon, I trust.

posted by chicobangs at 10:21 AM on March 10

I'm sorry but the Naslund hit wasn't dirty. Ugly? Yep. Illegal? Nope. If you put yourself in that position with a banger coming at you what do you think is going to happen? Is Moore going to use his dazzling skating abilities to steal the puck and head off on a break away? I think not. He's going to lay the body on. Betuzzi is a punk. A full year is what should be dished out but I fear the worst. 10 games is what I think he will get and that in itself is a crime.

posted by hipczech at 11:05 AM on March 10

Welcome aboard, hipczech.

posted by 86 at 11:26 AM on March 10

I ignored this thread the past two days even with 50+ comments, then I saw the headline "Hockey hit probed after player's neck is broken" on After seeing mdb1's video link... Jesus Christ, that's the ugliest cheap shot I've ever seen in any sport.

posted by dusted at 12:26 PM on March 10

camcanuck, you should raise that point about properly wearing equipment more often. It's right on the money. dfleming, what is lost in this discussion is the reality of the grey area when it comes to refereeing. It can be legal, and dirty. Illegal hits occur and go unpunished in the NHL on a nightly basis. Players rely on this reality, and exploit it. Just because a ref doesn't see it that way, or see it at all, doesn't mean it didn't happen. lilbrownbat, the courts usually get involved when the attack involves the hockey stick, i.e. use of a deadly weapon. But keep the police out of this. No weapon was used. Assault could be the charge, but once that precedent is set, look out. Teams will be drafting litigators.

posted by garfield at 07:31 PM on March 10

out for the rest of the season and playoffs, sure, but a year? c'mon, there's a huge difference between punching someone and going at their head with a stick.

posted by juv3nal at 02:05 AM on March 11

There's also a huge difference between a broken neck and a concussion and some stitches. Regardless of what he used (and a hand in a hockey glove on this particular hit was probably worse than a stick anyhow, acting more like a club), the result of his actions are also at issue.

posted by pivo at 03:15 AM on March 11

there's a huge difference between punching someone and going at their head with a stick. The later happened last night. He missed the noggin, and only made contact with the shoulder pad, but there was no way it was an attempt to dislodge the puck or take the body. The fucker swung at the guy's head. Poop quiz: guess the player's name.

posted by garfield at 11:22 AM on March 11


posted by garfield at 04:43 PM on March 13

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